Edmonds Aerospace Glider Assembly review

I decided to order one or two Edmonds gliders from erockets.biz and the FOUR that I settled upon came in the mail as promised.

So, I decided to make a thread of my experiences in building and flying these first three kits.

Although I bought a Deltie, a CiCi and a Tinee, I have decided to assemble the Cici first.

I must say, I was surprised that the Cici was so quick to assemble. The one page of instructions were very simple, in the form of a letter written to the kid in all of us. The parts are pre-cut out of laser printed balsa wood.
I was able to glue with yellow wood glue the wing, the two fins, and the front canard piece in one step... and I inserted the wooden cone into the engine tube, but stopped just short of trying to attach the tube in this same step. The last step will be positioning the launch lug after the tube is glued onto the spine.

I must comment that I'm impressed with the spine, after assembling the Sunward Glider and discovering the boom (spine) was barely as tall as the balsa was thick! This is not the case with the Cici..nor the other kits that I have from Edmonds. There is little doubt that this is designed for more rigorous handling and kids to handle.

So as I wait for it dry, and will do the nosecone and launch lug yet tonight. Here's a photo of the mid-step, waiting for the first round of glue to dry.

Although there are no "Steps" in the CiCi instruction sheet, it appears logical that you let each piece dry before attempting to move onto the next one. The only real place this impacts is when you want to attach the launch lug, in the fillet that is holding the motor tube in place over the fuselage. I rushed it slightly, and embedded the launch lug in the fillet or extra glue that squeezed out, so they dried together. I think I got the motor tube straight and parallel. If I had it to do over, I might not have inserted the nosecone with glue BEFORE that step, but it's hard to go wrong with this simple a kit.

I did notice that the wing wanted to bow slightly upon gluing it to the underside of the fuselage. I just turned it upside down and held it with my fingers for a quarter hour until the glue set, but I still see where the wing has pulled up away from the fuselage slightly while the glue cured overnight. I am applying a slight fillet down the length of both sides, just to make sure. Perhaps if I had studied which side of the wing to face the fuselage, I might have been able to beat this, but it didn't occur to me as I started last night. Again, this is a very straight forward kit with no numbered steps. the diagrams are very clear, and with only 8 parts, it's hard to go wrong.

As I wait for it to dry, I moved onto an Estes Quark, which you'll note was setting in the top of the photos. This had even fewer pieces, though you have to use a fin template to slice off the right lengths of four fins. I used a mini-utility knife and guesstimated after measuring the template. I was pretty darn close on all four, but find there's almost enough left over for two more pieces... almost. The remainder, though angle cut, isn't quite long enough for another pair...but I'll keep it in my growing scrap pile. The nose glued on with Testor's plastic model glue, and I was careful to position the four fins, one at a time, so that the Quark will free stand on the fin tips without rocking. That's as far as I took it, waiting for all glue to dry. It's essentially done, except for the launch lug and the possibility of painting. I will probably use bright orange, as I lost my mini-Mosquito at the last club launch on the first try...despite yellow, black and red fins.

I started looking at the Tinee, and discovered that it's virtually the same as the CiCi... except the nosecone is a little shorter, the vent hole on the motor tube is not punched out, and the fins and wing are not removed from the slightly thinner sheet of balsa wood. The CiCi came with all wooden parts already removed, and no excess "flashing." Even the instruction sheet looks and reads almost identical, but clearly shows the Tinee parts. With this simple a formula for assembly, how could a kid go wrong?! The other difference is the set of motor's recommended for use. The Tinee uses mini motors 1/2A3-2T or A3-4T, the CiCi uses A8-3, B4-2 or C6-5.

OK, so I have started on the Deltie.

This is a substantially different construction, witnessed by 21 parts and a 7 page instruction book. Again, the verbage is very user friendly, and assumes almost no prior knowledge of gliders. I like it cause it starts with telling you what the CG point is and how to find it. One downside to these instructions: It could use another proof-reading, to catch the random misspelling or dropped word or two. None are critical. Example: In the bottom right corner of the third page, there's an insert showing how a spring clip will hold two pieces together. The words say, "REMOVE THE CLIP WHEN THE GLUE IS COMPLETELY............. " It's not hard to figure out that the missing word is "DRY!" but there are several things like this scattered about.

Another instance: In the final "feel-good" paragraph, the copy says, "While you're
walking over to pick up your Deltie after the flight, think about how proud you
are. You built and flew your own aircraft, sor ......................................... ple
have done. There are many other types of
airplanes and rockets out there
waiting for you to try, but for
now, enjoy your Deltie!"

Though puzzling at first, it has become apparent that Robert Edmonds, Jr has signed his name, and that graphic has covered a good chunk of one sentence when pasted together. With a little thought, it is possible that the sentence should read.. "You built and flew your own aircraft, something that not a lot of people have done." Again, not a critical omission, but shows that this is a somewhat one-man, personable product, and aimed at kids, but very user friendly. I like it.

So, as I begin the Deltie, I find a warning not to start on a good surface table, for fear of gluing the plane down or marring the table top. So, after a few abortive attempts to lay the pieces on the plastic sack, and then on the instruction sheet, I settled upon a sheet of newsprint. And they were right. The gluing process started to adhere to the newspaper. Because the balsa wood parts are SO thin, they would flex when I attempted to pull them up off the newsprint. So I developed a technique of pulling the newsprint over the rounded edge of the wooden table, and this would gently peel off the paper, while still supporting the bulk of the glider. The wood glue I was using gave nicely, and the stress on the Balsa was minimal.

While the instructions recommend letting pieces dry about a half hour, I turn and work on the rocket pod. The thicker pieces are assembled by layering the thin balsa together and gluing. While waiting for that to dry, I return to the glider, and attach the fins, and the central fuselage. It becomes obvious that the paper clip holds the rear flap up while gluing, but the instructions leave none of this to chance...the diagrams are clear and the instructions plain and clearly tell you what pitfall to avoid and why we're waiting on gluing the tail end.

As the pieces come together, the remaining balsa seems thin and flimsy. And I'm noticing that the glider is somewhat smaller and less sturdy than I had imagined it would become. As I get to the end and wait for the glue to dry, I tie on the shock cord, the nosecone and the crepe paper streamer. I am surprised the streamer is paper and not a plastic strip, as well as the attachment, which is a red vinyl adhesive strip. I would think that a dab of glue would help to hold the knotts, as well as secure the screw eye in the balsa nosecone.

As I approach the end, it occurs to me that the rocket pod is not painted, and there are no instructions to do so. The hook has not been sanded yet, as I await the glue to dry. I also notice that the shock cord, while glued under the launch lug next to the hock, is not attached as it runs up the side of the pod and under the red vinyl strip. It doesn't come off, but it doesn't convince me that it's permanent. It doesn't seem that secure.

But I really enjoy this kit, and the wording of the instructions (basically 5 pages, not all 7) with extremely clear drawings and straightforward explanation, very enjoyable. I haven't yet added the clay to tune and balance the glider, but that's the next step on a calm, non windy day.

Disaster.

I realized last night that I had not balanced the Deltie glider over the pencil as they suggested, and so I did so and determined it needed some clay up front. The square that was supplied in the kit (very thoughtful) was little more than a square broken off a stick of chewing gum. I tore off a half and molded it into the slot that the kit provides in the assembly of the fuselage.

When attempting to balance, I find the nose is far too heavy now, a real surprise for me! So, I halve the amount on the glider, mold it into the slot, and find I am very close to balancing on the CG line that was marked in the very first step. I steal a pinch more off the nose of the glider, and as near as I can tell, it balances on the line. So I think I'm good.

Today, though there is a little breeze, I take both the CICI and the Deltie out and given them a gentle push into the air. The CiCi (remember, without an engine up front,) doesn't fly, but plummets to the ground. I'm not worried. it's tough, made of thicker balsa. It's fine.

The Deltie, launched into the wind, starts to glide, makes a little stall, and then dips toward the ground. I pick it up, turn downwind and give it a gentle toss. It immediately does a nose dive, impacts the grass and snaps off the nose part of the fuselage. It's a more or less clean break, just ahead of the wings, and has left the nose, the clay and the glue intact. I sigh, as this feels a lot like my experience with the Sunward glider.

I pick it up and take it home for repairs.

I took the Deltie home and glued the nosecone/fuselage back on the central shaft without any additional bracing. It appears to be cured and straight this morning.

Late last night, on impulse, I decided to break out the Tinee, and quickly noted a few small differences from the CiCi. The most obvious is the smaller size, but also the fins on the end of the wing are slotted, which I think will make for a stronger joint.

This time I also glued the motor tube on the top of the fuselage before gluing in the nosecone, which went much more easily than I thought it might. I also included launch lug just under the motor tube as instructed.

I noted a few small balsa tabs where the laser cut hadn't finished cutting out the wings, so I started sanding them off lightly... but then stopped as I realized I was sanding a slightly extended and aerodynamic neck of the main wing instead. I stopped and just started gluing the wing onto the body, without problem.

Similarly, the smaller canard was attached, but due to a slight mis-match in size, this was a much tighter fit, but the balsa gave slightly and I got a nice tight fit, glued and positioned.

Again, the instruction sheet is one page, relying mainly on the two diagrams of what glues to what. The 8 pieces go together very logically, and without much difficulty. I especially appreciate the caution NOT to let the ignition wires drop or impact the glider as it launches. That's what I think did in my Sunward glider last month. I'll have to pay more attention on how to position and secure those wires upon take-off so as not to damage the gliders.

Looking good so far. You can't beat the Edmunds gliders for simplicity.

As far as keeping your ignition wires out of the way, use an umbilical rod to hold the wire about level with the aft end of the motor. Allow just enough wire to reach the igniter and then tape to the end of the umbilical. At ignition, the wires will fall away, but in an arc away from the model.

gdjsky01 said:

I have thermaled away a Deltie on a 1/2A:tongue::surprised::wink:

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What do you mean "thermaled away"??? A standard launch? A CATO? a fire?

I launched it. It started circling... and circling... and circling... and circling... and circling..... last we saw it, it was somewhere over the lake in Santa Fe Dam Recreational Area and headed further North.
-J

Kirk G said:

What do you mean "thermaled away"??? A standard launch? A CATO? a fire?

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Sounds like it was caught in a rising bubble of warm air and just kept floating.

Kirk G said:

What do you mean "thermaled away"??? A standard launch? A CATO? a fire?

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Simply that it found a rising column of air and floated away on it. The Deltie isn't super high performing, but it is no slouch either.

I caught a rising column of warm air (a thermal) with my R/C RG last weekend and took it to about twice as high as its boost altitude before diving to meet the target time.

Success and failure-- Today our club held it's August launch, and while the weather was supposed to be fine and calm, there was a bit of a breeze through the valley. The club launched many rockets but I was the only one with gliders and had a good day.

I first launched the Mega Mosquito on a D12-3 that I had scored at the end of last month's launch. I had already pre-packed the chute and barf, and it went well, except that some of the dog barf seemed to be smoldering as it came out and fell at an even rate along with the chute and rocket. Easy recovery. I am pleased.

I attempted to toss each of the three Edmond gliders Tinee, CiCi and Deltie to see if any needed trim. Most stalled when tossed into the gentle breeze, but the Deltie once again snapped it's fuselage off when I tossed it the second time. I attempted a glue repair, but feel that some bracing will be needed. (I also packed along the Sunward Glider to show, but found the waver-thin stabilizer that had broken off and I am thinking of replacing, snagged and frayed itself on the cardboard box during transport. So, no pod-assisted boost gliders flew today.)

I finally read and found my 1/2A3-2 pack and opened it, loading the Tinee (the one I didn't think I would ever assemble or fly, and when ready and during a lull in the wind, I loaded it on the club launch rod and pressed the button.
The glider (front loaded with light motor) lifted quick and then started back down again. It described a half a circle and then landed in the weeds just outside our launch mowed square. I reloaded and tried again, and the second of four motors gave exactly the same performance. As I don't have anything with a faster ejection charge, I decide to hold off on the others two motors until the Deltie is ready for test flight.

Now I have the CiCi out and realize the smallest engine is an A8-3 of which I have four. I load one up, checked to assure the friction fit is not too tight, and during a lull in the breeze, launch it. I goes somewhat higher, and describes a nice circle as I watch the ejection charge spit out the motor.

Moving up a notch, I use one of the remaining two B4-2 that I have to load up a second flight, and thought the club had started to strike the launch rails (ending early) a kind soul who had his personal set up still active allowed me to load and launched during the next lull in the breeze. I must not have waited as long for as good a lull, as the plane flew high up, and then separated very well, and described large lazy circles in the breeze, drifting farther and farther down range. It was quite a hike to find this bird, and after ten minutes of walking through the low growth, I found it directly on the right bearing, but somewhat father out that I can expected. I am thrilled to see that the CiCi performed as well as the Tinee had.

I think the secret appears to be in the thicker boom or fuselage, and perhaps in the front loaded motors, with ejection charged dropping the weight nicedly. PS: I found both of the larger motors in our launch field and recovered them for the trash. The smaller 1/2A motors vanished but caused no fire.

So with five launches between 1 and 3:30pm, I could the day as a success, and decide to repair my pod-assisted gliders and try them again next month (or maybe next wee since I have the week off and the nearby driving range is calling my name!)

Thank you Edmonds for the CiCi and the Tinee and their stronger, thicker construction.

I have a CiCi,great glider.Wish I could find the Thunder,but they are no longer produced.

cjp said:

I have a CiCi,great glider.Wish I could find the Thunder,but they are no longer produced.

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https://www.erockets.biz/edmonds-flying-model-rocket-kit-deltie-thunder-edm-05/

cjp said:

I have a CiCi,great glider.Wish I could find the Thunder,but they are no longer produced.

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I was able to pick up a Deltie Thunder, a Geminee Thunder, a Twin Thunder, and a CiCi 2-Stage Tunder just a few months ago, so don't give up hope! Unfortunately, the sources I used don't have any remaining other than the Deltie that Kirk referenced.

Cheers,
Michael

I decided to try to launch a bunch of my gliders today at the baseball diamonds West of town. There seemed to be enough space, all was green, and I had an hour before sunset. Lighting wasn't the best, but I stood with the back to the sun, and launched the Emonds Deltie (pod-assist) for the first time, on a 1/2A3-2T. It went well. Then I did it on an A3-2T and boy did that Deltie soar high. I had an audience for the lazy circles all the way down. Then I found the streamer had been ripped off, and the ejection wadding was found, and the Delite recovered. After a two minute walk around, I found the singed Pod booster, the business end peeled back and burned, but the pod "hook" is intact.Any suggestions on how to repair it?

It is repairable. Either build a whole new pod using the old nose cone or cut off the aft end of the pod and put in section of new tubing using a coupler.

aerostadt said:

It is repairable. Either build a whole new pod using the old nose cone or cut off the aft end of the pod and put in section of new tubing using a coupler.

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As we have no parts supplier stores in my community, how do you determine what size coupler you need? I've measured the basic pod tube at 9 inches long, but the dimension of the opening is either 1/2" or 15 mm depending on you look at it.

Kirk G said:

As we have no parts supplier stores in my community, how do you determine what size coupler you need? I've measured the basic pod tube at 9 inches long, but the dimension of the opening is either 1/2" or 15 cm depending on you look at it.

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It's a 13mm motor mount tube, or BT-5 in Estes terms. If you have a hobby shop that sells kits nearby, you could probably find a kit that matches the pod size pretty closely.

On impulse, and to burn off an extra motor, I launched both the Tinee and the CiCi gliders as the final two launches of the day... boy, were the old hands impressed both with the speed of the Tinee take-off, and also the height got on the CiCi with just a B6-5.... The Tinee was on the last A10-3T which behaved alright. We recovered both the motors when they self-ejected out the back.

Both gliders enjoyed a nice lazy spiral coming back to earth. I particularly enjoy the CiCi as it is larger, well built, and has commonly available Low Power motors... It's a fun little kit.

wax paper works for this step , glue doesn't stick to it

Kirk G said:

View attachment 180777
So, as I begin the Deltie, I find a warning not to start on a good surface table, for fear of gluing the plane down or marring the table top. So, after a few abortive attempts to lay the pieces on the plastic sack, and then on the instruction sheet, I settled upon a sheet of newsprint. And they were right. The gluing process started to adhere to the newspaper. Because the balsa wood parts are SO thin, they would flex when I attempted to pull them up off the newsprint. So I developed a technique of pulling the newsprint over the rounded edge of the wooden table, and this would gently peel off the paper, while still supporting the bulk of the glider. The wood glue I was using gave nicely, and the stress on the Balsa was minimal.

While the instructions recommend letting pieces dry about a half hour, I turn and work on the rocket pod. The thicker pieces are assembled by layering the thin balsa together and gluing. While waiting for that to dry, I return to the glider, and attach the fins, and the central fuselage. It becomes obvious that the paper clip holds the rear flap up while gluing, but the instructions leave none of this to chance...the diagrams are clear and the instructions plain and clearly tell you what pitfall to avoid and why we're waiting on gluing the tail end.

As the pieces come together, the remaining balsa seems thin and flimsy. And I'm noticing that the glider is somewhat smaller and less sturdy than I had imagined it would become. As I get to the end and wait for the glue to dry, I tie on the shock cord, the nosecone and the crepe paper streamer. I am surprised the streamer is paper and not a plastic strip, as well as the attachment, which is a red vinyl adhesive strip. I would think that a dab of glue would help to hold the knotts, as well as secure the screw eye in the balsa nosecone.
View attachment 180676
As I approach the end, it occurs to me that the rocket pod is not painted, and there are no instructions to do so. The hook has not been sanded yet, as I await the glue to dry. I also notice that the shock cord, while glued under the launch lug next to the hock, is not attached as it runs up the side of the pod and under the red vinyl strip. It doesn't come off, but it doesn't convince me that it's permanent. It doesn't seem that secure.

But I really enjoy this kit, and the wording of the instructions (basically 5 pages, not all 7) with extremely clear drawings and straightforward explanation, very enjoyable. I haven't yet added the clay to tune and balance the glider, but that's the next step on a calm, non windy day.

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make a paper pattern of your deltie thunder before you build it, so just incase something happens you can make another

iqsy59 said:

I was able to pick up a Deltie Thunder, a Geminee Thunder, a Twin Thunder, and a CiCi 2-Stage Tunder just a few months ago, so don't give up hope! Unfortunately, the sources I used don't have any remaining other than the Deltie that Kirk referenced.

Cheers,
Michael

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TheAviator said:

It's a 13mm motor mount tube, or BT-5 in Estes terms. If you have a hobby shop that sells kits nearby, you could probably find a kit that matches the pod size pretty closely.

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I should update this.
After showing the burned out end of the pod to the vendor at our club flight, he recommended cutting the hook off the rear end, and just shortening the entire pod by about an inch. I wasn't a fan of this, cause he didn't realize how securely the hook, launch lug and kevlar string were glued down (which is probably why that portion of the tube didn't melt/burn/explode...and the rest of the circle DID breach).

So we settled on his sharp little jack knife, basically trimming away the loose tube at the level where the hook ends. So, any mini motor now inserted, will appear to be exposed for about 3/4" more...but could be secured by a tighter wrap of masking tape to be snug, or, secured by a strip of masking tape securing it to the tube and around the hook.

On the subject of the kevlar string not being secured down the body of the tube, I settled on running a bead of wood glue down the string, and then smeared it left and right, creating a tiny fillet that secured it down the outside body of the tube. Plus a layer of two of white spray paint and it's almost undistinguishable.

oddmanrockets said:

make a paper pattern of your deltie thunder before you build it, so just incase something happens you can make another

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Oh, I'd love to do this, but I can't find any Deltie Thunder anywhere....and at $33 per glider, well... I can't afford one anyway.
But your idea of making a paper pattern...or photocopying or scanning the instructions to preserve them in a file, makes sense!