Photography

If it is one thing I learned from LDRS is that my photography and videography skills are lacking. Well….they suck.

I have two cameras that I use. Both are Canons. First is an older 20D. I think it has some issues so we keep an EF 50mm f1.4 on the front. Great lens. The camera is a bit slow so fixed shots are the best. It is a good portrait setup. The second is a T4i with an EF-S 18-135 IS STM lens. Not sure I am in love with this camera but cannot afford another to replace it. My wife dropped it on the lens so filters are no longer an option. Still seems to work.

Can anyone give me tips on settings to use for both photo and video at launches? Looking for things such as program mode or manual modes, IS or no, what is best way to get focal point on rocket in flight…

I understand that a pro lens would be best option but not an option for me. I see plenty of people shooting with similar rigs and have seen their photos on here and they are way better than I am getting.

Help please.

Don't be afraid to bump up the ISO. I'm not sure what you mean by "suck" could be a number of things.

I'm certainly no expert, but I try to get the shutter around 1/1250 or faster. The initial thought would be to open up the aperture to get there. The problem with that is you're going to shrink the depth of field so much either the rocket won't be in it long, or what happens to me all the time, the camera will focus on the pad number and the rocket is totally out of focus.

To avoid that, I try to keep the aperture around f/8 giving a pretty good DoF, and bump up the ISO until I get into the 1/1250 range.

Of course, the lights going to affect all of this... sun at your back is best. I find I get the best shots just before dusk/ later in the evening. Mid-day is just crap harsh light.

That 50 is a great lens, but the distance may be an issue with most launches. Picking up a used 75-300 or 100-300 wouldn't be a bad idea. No need to go pro to get wide apertures.

Do you run your focus on auto or manual?
I have had good shots ruined by the auto focus. Everything you don't want sharp and in focus, is, but the rockets is out of focus. Ugh!

Auto focus. ISO may be a big factor. Will try moving that up. Any thoughts on video? Would a tripod help with either or both?


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Tripod will help video. At 1/1250 you'd have to be having a seizure to affect the photo.

I use AF as well. I've never been good at manual, and with moving objects I'm just too lazy.

With both video and stills, if you're trying to follow the rocket up, get as far away as possible. It will reduce the speed you need to raise the lens to keep up

You're going to get the best results on days that are overcast -- bright sunlight on a clear day sucks for photography. It's just too harsh and washes things out.

Are you letting the camera pick the focus point, or are you selecting a single one? I have mine set to use the center point; I focus there and crop later, or shift the camera after getting a focus lock.

What mode are you shooting in? I find I use aperture priority the most.

Focus mode matters, as well, especially when combined with aperture. If you have a tight DOF, then you'll need to refocus as the distance to the rocket changes.

Don't try to change everything at once. Fiddle with one setting, and try lots of pictures with various options on that setting. Then move to another. Then combine them. Practice. Practice more. Then practice even more. And experiment.

Also, don't forget post-processing. Yeah, you can get good pictures straight from the camera, but you're going to get better results if you do a little work on them after the fact, sometimes even something as simple as properly cropping can make a huge difference.

Something else to keep in mind is that even professionals take lots of bad pictures. In my conversations with them, having 5 pictures out of 100 be usable is considered a really good ratio. As an example, I took over 3600 pictures on a recent Galapagos trip (I'm a hobbyist, nothing more). Of those, I have ~270 that I'm willing to show to people, and of those 270, I have less than a dozen that I'd consider to be really good pictures. I use Canon gear, as well.

-Kevin

Use a Circular Polarizer
Consider "Cloudy" whitebalance in full sunlight for a little more saturated colors.
Manual focus - or a way to control focus (AF-ON for Nikon) - you need to stop it from hunting when the rocket leaves the focus point(s).
NO VR - not good for rockets - not needed when using a high shutter speed -- did I mention 1/4000th sec or faster shutter....
Don't try to be "artsy" -- use lots of DOF (f8) -- perhaps set focus at the "hyperfocal" point.

FredA said:

Use a Circular Polarizer
Consider "Cloudy" whitebalance in full sunlight for a little more saturated colors.
Manual focus - or a way to control focus (AF-ON for Nikon) - you need to stop it from hunting when the rocket leaves the focus point(s).
NO VR - not good for rockets - not needed when using a high shutter speed -- did I mention 1/4000th sec or faster shutter....
Don't try to be "artsy" -- use lots of DOF (f8) -- perhaps set focus at the "hyperfocal" point.

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A circular polarizer isn't very useful in rocket photography. It just wastes light.

With Canons, 'sunny' WB is the correct WB for...sunny conditions. It adds the warmth back that auto white balance kills.

Set C.Fn 6 to #3 so that it's "AE/AF, no AF lock". The back button becomes the only way to focus; the shutter button only takes the picture.

The 18-135 STM has really good stabilization. Leave it on.

f/8 is good.

CP is very useful -- nicer skies -- and you've typically got plenty of light.

Stabilization does not help above 1/500th second and in many instances, it degrades the image at those speeds.

TRY a cloudy WB -- just try it. Doesn't matter for me since I shoot RAW -- but you might like it if you are a JPEG user.

I have a cp. but until I buy another lens, the one I have will not work. Thanks wifey. I will try shooting hi ISO and shutter speeds. I try to keep my apature at f11 when not in auto mode. Have a launch at bong on the 16th so if I make it to that will give suggestions a try. If anything turns out I'll let you know.


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BrAdam said:

I have a cp. but until I buy another lens, the one I have will not work. Thanks wifey. I will try shooting hi ISO and shutter speeds. I try to keep my apature at f11 when not in auto mode. Have a launch at bong on the 16th so if I make it to that will give suggestions a try. If anything turns out I'll let you know.

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Fred is correct - that polarizing filter will help with sky and clouds. Remember it's not a "put it on and forget it" filter -- you have to adjust it.

Don't set an aperture and forget it, either. Adjust it based on what you're taking a picture of. Taking pictures of people working on the pad? Go to a smaller aperture for tighter DOF.

I almost always shoot in aperture priority; your camera will tell you what ISO and shutter speed it's using.

BTW, if you're ever going somewhere and want that more expensive lens but can't buy one, https://www.borrowlenses.com

-Kevin

Here are some of the things I have learned from my years of photographic experiences.

There are only two kinds of cameras; cheap cameras, with which I can take really crappy photographs and expensive cameras, with which I can take really crappy photographs.

It doesn’t matter how good the optics and features of a digital camera are if it is assembled using cheap Chinese made electronics.

$200 digital cameras should last longer than a $10 “Walkman”.

I have a Canon 20D and love it! Bought it 10 years ago when they first came out. I shoot 99% of the time in manual mode with auto focus. The first thing you must understand is that although better equipment can give you better results, it also makes your mistakes that much worse! If you have no photography background and expect a big digital SLR to make your photos better, you are probably in for a big surprise! With smaller point and shoot pocket camera, you can get decent "pictures" and sometimes get lucky with that exceptional capture, but until you start using a big lens you are limited in your depth-of-field and capturing motion in ways you really want to. When I started off I spent a couple of years reading every book on photography and digital photography I could lay my hands on. Even then, when I first started using a DSLR it took me a few months to really get the hang of it. There are limits to holding a camera, especially in relation longer telephoto lenses. My suggestion is to get a couple of books on Basic Photography, Natural Light, and Action Photography. A book I highly recommend to any budding photographer is: Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0817463003/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=35048682684&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11549945765374832573&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_2nac9urcad_b

I had read a half a dozen books on basic photography, but until I read this one, it didn't really click. Once you understand how exposure works and what the different ISO. aperture and shutter speeds do, you can start capturing "photos" the way you want them. With these three settings you can arrive at a "good" exposure in many different ways. Knowing what the settings do will help you capture the moment... stop the action, capture a blur of motion, capture your targets depth-of-field (blur the fore and background) and many other cool things to give your photo a sense of life and feeling that you want to convey.

And yes.. I can shoot 300 or more photos at an event and only end up with 50 or so I would ever show anybody.

Also it wouldn't hurt to learn a program or two like Adobe's Lightroom or Photoshop. Even Google's Picasa can be a decent start. Your digital photo is just the start. Even the best "old school" film photographers used the darkroom, developing and processing techniques to get desired results.

It really isn't going to help you getting setting advice from anybody until you understand what the settings do, how to use them correctly in your situation and know the limits of those settings.

Good luck!


Jerome

Oh I have read books and taken classes and I understand all the technical details with regards to cameras and photography and it hasn’t done a dang thing to help me take decent pictures.

They are in focus and perfectly exposed and color balanced you can’t fault the technical aspects of my photos, it’s that they just lack. . .Actually “Just lack” says it all.

I’m the only person I know who could take a picture of Ms’s June, July, August and September and have people ask me whether they were the Backstreet Boys or N Sync.

boomtube said:

They are in focus and perfectly exposed and color balanced you can’t fault the technical aspects of my photos, it’s that they just lack. . .Actually “Just lack” says it all.

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There's a technical side to photography, and there's an artistic side. Sounds like you're better at the former, but not the latter.

It's interesting - in the Galapagos, we spent a lot of time with a specific couple. One of the things Duane (the other guy) commented on is that I'm better at composing pictures of people doing things than he is. He gets landscapes, and wildlife. But how to frame and pick a shot of people doing things? Not so much.

It's a function of how you look at things, and what you notice.

-Kevin

Composition!!!
That was the word I was looking for and couldn’t remember.

The pictures I take of what would be considered exciting or beautiful or compelling instead turn out to be; none of the above.

I still need to purchase a new camera but I hate the very thought of it. I figure I’ll pay around $200 and yet I wouldn’t expect the thing to last four years as per past experiences.
And why have so many of the point and shoot style cameras done away with the viewfinder?
Don’t they realize those screens on the back are pretty much useless in bright sunlight?

troj said:

Fred is correct - that polarizing filter will help with sky and clouds. Remember it's not a "put it on and forget it" filter -- you have to adjust it.

Don't set an aperture and forget it, either. Adjust it based on what you're taking a picture of. Taking pictures of people working on the pad? Go to a smaller aperture for tighter DOF.

I almost always shoot in aperture priority; your camera will tell you what ISO and shutter speed it's using.

BTW, if you're ever going somewhere and want that more expensive lens but can't buy one, https://www.borrowlenses.com

-Kevin

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Polarizers are of limited utility with rockets because you so often switch between vertical and horizontal orientation.


For renting lenses, I have had better than excellent service and support from LensRentals.com. They have an awesome blog as well. I don't know how BorrowLenses compares.

CarVac said:

Polarizers are of limited utility with rockets because you so often switch between vertical and horizontal orientation.

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...because it's so hard to reach up and rotate the ring...

Based on that argument, polarizing filters are pretty much worthless in general because you might switch between portrain and landscape.

-Kevin

Remember too, that polarizing filters have maximum effect with the camera pointed at right angles to the sun. As you tilt the camera upward to follow a rocket (think burst mode) or shooting the recovery you are very likely to have your camera pointed in a less than ideal direction.

You can read books to learn about composition but I would recommend looking at pictures. Find some that you like and examine them critically to discover why they are interesting or what makes them good. Then look at your pictures and think about what you could have done that might have made yours more interesting.

When you are out shooting move around and look at the scene from different angles with the aim of finding an angle that is more interesting. If possible get closer to the subject. Try using shutter priority and aperture priority and see what works better when. On sunny days you can experiment using the flash on the camera to fill in the shadows on people faces if you aren't too far away.

Take lots of pictures, memory cards are cheap and re-useable, and then look at them critically. See what you like and what you don't.

As others have said, get rid of the auto-focus; it's the worst thing for fast moving objects. In fact, if you're interested in taking pictures of the rockets launching and in flight, no auto-focus and set the distance to "infinity" on the lens. One less thing you have to worry about when shooting action pictures.
Personally, I miss taking pictures with my Nikon FM2 film camera. I could get unbelievable shots with that thing; but I am lazy by nature, so now it's the camera on my phone that I use.
Practice makes perfect with taking pictures. If you have time, shoot away and you'll soon find out what you like and how to do it with your camera.

W7AMI said:

Take lots of pictures, memory cards are cheap and re-useable, and then look at them critically. See what you like and what you don't.

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Yup! I can easily take 600+ pictures in a day, depending on where I'm at. Sometimes a picture that I just think is going to be okay turns out to be great.

Also don't be afraid to take multiple pictures in series -- a split second can make or break a picture.

Finally, when taking pictures at a launch, don't get totally hung up on rockets leaving the pad. Those get old and boring very quickly. You'll find a lot of interesting things in people at the launch.

-Kevin

troj said:

...because it's so hard to reach up and rotate the ring...

Based on that argument, polarizing filters are pretty much worthless in general because you might switch between portrain and landscape.

-Kevin

Click to expand...

Polarizers are useful for careful work (tripods and normal vacation stuff), but not for quick reaction type stuff like rocketry.

That said, I never use polarizers. It reduces absolute contrast of the lens (since they're rarely multicoated), they steal precious light (when shooting at very high shutter speeds, especially in action shots like useful with rockets), and they're impossible to deal with when you have a lens hood on (advisable when shooting rocketry).

I would recommend that you use a higher F-Stop and set the focus closer than infinity. That will give you a wider range of focus. Read Ansel Adam's books to understand why.

If you are interested in composition Ansel Adam's books are great. He explains how he took the image and how he printed it. Then the full page image is next to it. Read the description and study the photos and you can learn from one of the best.

One thing I have read is that using the recommended aperture setting on most DSLRs will overexpose the photo by about 1/2 an f-stop. We set our cameras to shoot 2/3rds of an f-stop below the recommendation. We adjust if necessary, but this setting often works well.

Zeus-cat said:

One thing I have read is that using the recommended aperture setting on most DSLRs will overexpose the photo by about 1/2 an f-stop. We set our cameras to shoot 2/3rds of an f-stop below the recommendation. We adjust if necessary, but this setting often works well.

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Nah, some models overexpose and some underexpose and still others expose just fine. Learn your own camera and don't assume everything you read online applies generally.

LEARN YOUR CAMERA.

With regard to exposure -- learn your camera:
Nikons' excel at shadow recovery -- a slight bias downward is often preferred to buy a little highlight headroom.
I do shoot my Nikons (3) with -1/3 stop EV dialed in.

Only buy the best filters....there are nice multicoated CP's out there, just not cheap.
A good CP, used with a hood, will give improved results.
CP results CAN NOT be duplicated in PS.
Just like many other photo accessories, it's not point & shoot, you have to think and move the CP.
But FOR ROCKET LAUNCHES, the angle to the sun is static (for the duration of the liftoff) - you have time to focus and adjust your CP and the burst of liftoff shots should all have similar CP-related effect.
I find a miss-adjusted CP does little harm to the image beyond costing a stop or two of light.
I find a properly adjusted CP a great improvement to IQ if images with lots of SKY in the photo.

For Nikon -- Auto ISO is your friend -- you can set manual mode and pick a high SS and large DOF aperture and let the Auto-ISO handle the exposure.

FredA said:

LEARN YOUR CAMERA.

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Yep. Single most important thing, right there.

Only buy the best filters....there are nice multicoated CP's out there, just not cheap.

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Yep. Putting a cheap filter on an expensive lens turns the expensive lens into a cheap lens. Last year, I spent over $500 on polarizing filters. A cheap filter on an inexpensive lens is still degrading the lens. Buy good filters.

For Nikon -- Auto ISO is your friend -- you can set manual mode and pick a high SS and large DOF aperture and let the Auto-ISO handle the exposure.

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Canon, as well, especially with newer bodies.

-Kevin

CPs are great at killing glare off water, or getting nice skies in landscapes. The rest of the time they excell at annoying me. Some day I'll force myself to learn to use them properly, but until then I try not to scratch them as I tear them off in anger.

The biggest difficulty I have with rocketry is the horizon. The ignition is under it when it's a dark background. and then the flight has bright sky behind it. Two very different shooting environments that you switch from in tenths of a second.

Post a few photos so that we might be able to offer some suggestions on your composition.