Launch Magazine special issue in Fall 2014?

Mark Mayfield posts on the Launch Magazine facebook page that they may do a special issue this Fall as a tie-in with the movie Interstellar.


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WillMarchant said:

Mark Mayfield posts on the Launch Magazine facebook page that they may do a special issue this Fall as a tie-in with the movie Interstellar.


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How wonderful... hope they intend to do the right thing and mail it for free to the people they stiffed who had unfulfilled subscriptions that they never refunded when they folded up shop and kept the money...

I supported them with a three year subscription, and only got about the first 6 months of it before they folded (if that). Never got a thing in compensation for the rest of my subscription, let alone a refund.

I for one won't ever give them another thin dime until they attempt to make those subscriptions right, and I'd suggest anyone else be very careful with their money as well. Not like I was the only one they stiffed, either...

Later! OL JR

A lot of folks have hostility toward extreme rocketry and launch magazine after each folded.

cwbullet said:

A lot of folks have hostility toward extreme rocketry and launch magazine after each folded.

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What you call "hostility" is what I call righteous anger.

When someone takes your money in good faith with the promise of delivering a product in exchange for that money, and then absconds with it and makes no effort to refund said money, that's called THEFT. It is STEALING, and I'm not going to sugar coat it for anybody.

I understand that they were attempting to start something, and they produced a fine product. I understand that they fell on "hard times" and couldn't make a go of it. BUT, HONEST people would have made a GENUINE EFFORT to either 1) refund the money, or 2) if it had been spent and they couldn't refund what they didn't have, come up with SOME OTHER WAY to attempt to "make it right" by providing something of SOME value to those who had TRUSTED THEM IN GOOD FAITH to deliver upon what they PROMISED when the money was sent to them.

The fact that they did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but take off with the money, leads to one INESCAPABLE conclusion-- they were DISHONEST, in that they made NO effort to "make anything right" but simply took off with the money that had been paid to them IN GOOD FAITH, and therefore IMHO that is the classic definition of a CROOK.

It makes no difference if its a rocket vendor, or a magazine vendor, or whatever... It's really simple... If you want to run a business, if you want to advertise and have people send you money in exchange for "stuff" (of whatever stripe or kind), you have an OBLIGATION to either 1) fulfill the promise of delivering the product according to the terms of the transaction, or 2) REFUNDING the money paid for the product not delivered.

If you don't, you're a CROOK, PERIOD.

See, that's not particularly difficult, was it. Everything else is just arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and IMHO is disingenuous...

It wasn't just one or two people that got screwed over by the "good folks" at LAUNCH, either... it was MANY more than that! How many people have to get screwed over BEFORE you call a crook a crook??

Guess it depends on whose ox is getting gored, doesn't it... apparently so.

Later! OL JR

luke strawwalker said:

How wonderful... hope they intend to do the right thing and mail it for free to the people they stiffed who had unfulfilled subscriptions that they never refunded when they folded up shop and kept the money...

I supported them with a three year subscription, and only got about the first 6 months of it before they folded (if that). Never got a thing in compensation for the rest of my subscription, let alone a refund.

I for one won't ever give them another thin dime until they attempt to make those subscriptions right, and I'd suggest anyone else be very careful with their money as well. Not like I was the only one they stiffed, either...

Later! OL JR

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It astounds me that folks who lost an absolute pittance when Launch folded carry on as though their life savings was ripped off by Bernie Madoff. They behave as though Launch was an elaborate scam to cheat them out of their money.

When Launch folded the owners actually lost their businesses and had to uproot their families and completely change their lives just to survive. They tried to bring us something really cool and ended up paying a terrible price for taking that risk. These are some really good people who are anything but crooks. Nobody ripped you off, Luke. Something bad happened. You got hurt a little. They got hurt a lot.

I lost my subscription money, too. But if Launch starts up again tomorrow I'll be the first in line to buy another 3 year subscription. It was a great product brought to us by some really great people. I'd love to see it start up again.

luke strawwalker said:

How wonderful... hope they intend to do the right thing and mail it for free to the people they stiffed who had unfulfilled subscriptions that they never refunded when they folded up shop and kept the money...

I supported them with a three year subscription, and only got about the first 6 months of it before they folded (if that). Never got a thing in compensation for the rest of my subscription, let alone a refund.

I for one won't ever give them another thin dime until they attempt to make those subscriptions right, and I'd suggest anyone else be very careful with their money as well. Not like I was the only one they stiffed, either...

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Then I hope you don't buy anything from GM or any other company that has ever declared bankruptcy.

Personally, if they do publish the issue I'll buy it. If they start up the magazine again, I'll subscribe again.

Mark, Deb and company did a fantastic job. Unfortunately, the economy didn't work in their favor.

-Kevin

Like I said... depends whose ox is getting gored...

A crooks a crook IMHO...

I've seen plenty of guys go bankrupt... it's a pretty common occurrence down in farm country. The difference is in how folks either stand up and do what they can to make things right, or cut and run like this bunch did...

My former seed and chemical dealer, who's since passed away, used to carry a lot of farmers "on account" owing him money for various inputs they bought from him, in the form of seed, chemicals, and fertilizer. The shifting in agriculture in the mid-late 90's caused a lot of guys to get out or go broke. Some just walked away from the money they owed him, no effort on their part to make good on ANY of the bills they owed. A few guys did what they could to pay what they owed, or at least part of it. One guy even brought in an old 6600 Deere combine, a cutterhead platform for it, a cultivator, and planter, and gave it to the dealer, since everything else was going to the USDA auction... it was the only equipment he had left that wasn't mortgaged. Did it cover the bill 100%?? Of course not. BUT, it DID show an EFFORT to ATTEMPT to make it right, in some form or fashion, rather than just "cut and run" and leave the other guy holding the bag, and "that's their tough luck!" Like I said, a lot of CROOKS wouldn't even do that much... just drop it and run and "oh well, that's the seed dealer's tough luck."

I know of another seed/chemical/fertilizer dealer I've done business with who basically lost their business and had to sell out due to deadbeats and scumbags ripping them off like that. He told me about one guy, a local bigshot, who owed him over $40,000 bucks in seed/chemical/fertilizer that he had got but never paid for... then the guy supposedly 'went broke' and 'quit farming'. The dealer gave him time to "get his life back together" (several months) and then started making gentle inquiries about the bill he owed... the guy dodged his calls and was impossible to get ahold of, so finally one day the dealer drove over to his place and knocked on the door... When he pulled up in the yard, he noticed that there were a couple brand spanking new four row cotton pickers in the back by the shop-- $250,000 or so machines that the former farmer had bought-- he'd decided to get into the custom cotton picking business and quit farming. When he knocked on the door, the guy's wife told him that the guy was out of state on some big hunting lease... The dealer was livid... "You mean to tell me he owes me $40,000 bucks, but he's got money for two new cotton pickers and money to blow going out of state on some $10,000 a gun hunting lease??" The scumbag never paid him a thin dime that I know of... this was already a few years later...

SO, how much money do you have to STEAL before you're a scumbag thief?? I know some folks blow literally thousands, even tens of thousands of dollars, on their "hobbies" (including rocketry) and everybody's definition of a "pittance" is different. I don't consider the amount I paid for my THREE YEAR subscription, virtually ALL of it UNFULFILLED, to be a "pittance". Not "life savings" by any stretch, but not a pittance either. The fact that they made NO EFFORT WHATSOEVER to make ANY of it right, or even refund a part of it, tells me all I need to know about these "good people" (gag). Crooks and scumbags take your money and run, regardless of whether it's 50 cents or fifty million dollars. A crook is a crook.

Yeah, bad things happen to good people. But good people do the best they can to own up to their responsibilities, not just take the money and run... That's not my definition of "good people. A crook takes off with the money. Sorry they had to "uproot their lives" and all that, but hey, you wanna be in business, you want to start something "new" and "innovative" and all that, well, that's the risk you take. They COULD have fulfilled the subscription with one of their other magazines, like the AIAA one, but they DIDN'T! Didn't even offer... didn't even TRY...

I just can't get over the number of people who will defend a crook and their crooked actions no matter what... Really speaks to the pathetic moral relativism of most folks in this country nowadays, and why things are getting as bad as they are. I'll bet when some of YOU guys get ripped off, you'll be screaming to high heaven about it... Until then, it's not YOUR money that was STOLEN, so it's "shut up about your pittance"...

Some folks really make me sick...

Later! OL JR

troj said:

Then I hope you don't buy anything from GM or any other company that has ever declared bankruptcy.

Personally, if they do publish the issue I'll buy it. If they start up the magazine again, I'll subscribe again.

Mark, Deb and company did a fantastic job. Unfortunately, the economy didn't work in their favor.

-Kevin

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To me it never looked viable from the beginning. That said, I subscribed then and would most likely do it again.

Luke do you believe it was their intent to mislead and steal from their subscribers? Did they mismanage the funds paid them? How do you know that they made no attempt to reconcile with anyone? Maybe they paid the people they owed the most to? I too think they should make good on their promises, doesn't mean they can.

Plenty of companies go bankrupt and cant pay their suppliers and or workers. And the owners are just sick about it, but you cant squeeze water from a rock no matter how hard you try. Plus who do you think is first in line with their hands out for payment? IRS maybe (jail time if you don't pay them) and the bank is next in line and nether of them give a crap if anyone behind them gets paid!

Maybe you need to walk in their shoes a bit before you call them crooks, get some more facts maybe. The few people that I know that went bankrupt and had unpaid or unfinished liability, they are far from being crooks! Short of opening up a vane they had nothing left to return no matter how bad they wanted too.

It sucks you lost you money for your subscription, it blows I understand I hate it to! "But let go of this hate old Strawwalker, consume you it will."


TA

thobin said:

Luke do you believe it was their intent to mislead and steel from their subscribers? Did they mismanage the funds paid them? How do you know that they made no attempt to reconcile with anyone? Maybe they paid the people they owed the most to? I too think they should make good on their promises, doesn't mean they can.

Plenty of companies go bankrupt and cant pay their suppliers and or workers. And the owners are just sick about it, but you cant squeeze water from a rock no matter how hard you try. Plus who do you think is first in line with their hands out for payment? IRS maybe (jail time if you don't pay them) and the bank is next in line and nether of them give a crap if anyone behind them gets paid!

Maybe you need to walk in their shoes a bit before you call them crooks, get some more facts maybe. The few people that I know that went bankrupt and had unpaid or unfinished liability, they are far from being crooks! Short of opening up a vane they had nothing left to return no matter how bad they wanted too.

It sucks you lost you money for your subscription, it blows I understand I hate it to! "But let go of this hate old Strawwalker, consume you it will."


TA

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No, I don't think they intended to rip people off, or to deceive. But I do think they probably mismanaged things... the magazine was gorgeous, no doubt about it... TOO gorgeous. That archival-quality paper must have cost a fortune, as did the production costs. Maybe if they would have managed their costs a little better, even if it meant doing a "cheaper format" for awhile, they could have made it work. They talked about doing an e-zine, but there was never any talk of rolling over the paid subscriptions that they reneged on, either. It was a "we're thinking of doing this, yall wanna subscribe?" type thing...

Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me. I'm not gonna be fooled again. These people may not be "crooks" per se, but they are UNRELIABLE and UNTRUSTWORTHY. I won't make the mistake of trusting them again, or taking the risk of purchasing anything from them. I bought a three year subscription to LAUNCH in order to help them out-- give them the money for the product "up front" to help them get going and pay startup costs. No sooner than they really got started, they closed up shop. I never heard anything about ANYBODY ever getting ANYTHING from them... if you know something different, then say so... otherwise, why don't YOU go get some FACTS instead of just making excuses for them??

I don't see how this is ONE BIT DIFFERENT than other people who've made off with other people's money... K&S Rockets and Sheri's Hot Rockets come instantly to mind. Heck there's a thread here on the forum with about a dozen pages of folks PO'd because they got stiffed by K&S Rockets, and the fact they made NO EFFORT to make any of it right. HOW IS THIS ONE BIT DIFFERENT??

If they have enough money to do a "special issue", they have enough money to pay back the subscribers they skinned. Or if they're trying to raise money to pay back the subscribers, they could certainly communicate that... Instead, it seems they just want to make some more money off gullible rocketeers foolish enough to trust them again. This one isn't taking any chances again.

They could have issued an apology and offered SOMETHING to recompense for the subscriptions, but they didn't. That tells me all I need to know.

It's not hate, it's just plain HONESTY... If you don't want to be thought a crook, then don't stiff people... pretty simple actually.

Later! OL JR

luke strawwalker said:

I don't see how this is ONE BIT DIFFERENT than other people who've made off with other people's money... K&S Rockets and Sheri's Hot Rockets come instantly to mind. Heck there's a thread here on the forum with about a dozen pages of folks PO'd because they got stiffed by K&S Rockets, and the fact they made NO EFFORT to make any of it right. HOW IS THIS ONE BIT DIFFERENT??

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HUGE difference - one went through legal bankruptcy and the founders lost everything they had invested in the company, as well as their jobs. They also have legal requirements about who gets paid from sale of whatever assets exist. K&S and Sheri both just took money and ran and are open to legal action by anyone who chooses to take it.

If Launch is reestablished and pays anyone a dime from previous subscriptions, they violate the bankruptcy proceedings and stand to lose everything.

As long as your screaming about Launch, I do hope you never buy a GM product, considering that they did the exact same thing...and are using it as legal protection to prevent lawsuits from people who died due to their products. Unless you're doing your research and refusing to do business with any company that has gone through bankruptcy, give it a rest. You've ranted about this several times.

-Kevin

Do any of the folks ranting about Launch understand anything about the business of magazines and their distribution? I'm pretty sure I can explain it for those that have interest. :wink:

troj said:

HUGE difference - one went through legal bankruptcy and the founders lost everything they had invested in the company, as well as their jobs. They also have legal requirements about who gets paid from sale of whatever assets exist. K&S and Sheri both just took money and ran and are open to legal action by anyone who chooses to take it.

If Launch is reestablished and pays anyone a dime from previous subscriptions, they violate the bankruptcy proceedings and stand to lose everything.

As long as your screaming about Launch, I do hope you never buy a GM product, considering that they did the exact same thing...and are using it as legal protection to prevent lawsuits from people who died due to their products. Unless you're doing your research and refusing to do business with any company that has gone through bankruptcy, give it a rest. You've ranted about this several times.

-Kevin

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You sure are excited about GM... if you MUST know, NO, I WON'T buy a Gubmint Motors product... never have liked GM products, never will... (well, except my old 454 1977 Suburban, but that's a different story... different time...)

There's an old saying my great uncle had... "I can forgive, but I d@mn sure don't forget!" Truer words were never spoken.

Bankruptcy is in 99% of cases just a legal means to hide from one's debts, because they're too crummy to take care of their business and pay what they owe... mismanaged and ran into the ground. And NO, I WOULD NOT do business with ANY company that declared bankruptcy and then suddenly "reorganized" and miraculously "landed on their feet."

Like I said... it's all about WHOSE ox is getting gored... Let you guys that are so intent on defending crooks get ripped off, and suddenly it's a big deal...

Later! OL JR

GuyNoir said:

Do any of the folks ranting about Launch understand anything about the business of magazines and their distribution? I'm pretty sure I can explain it for those that have interest. :wink:

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So I've got to ask. Did you think it would succeed?

Luke,

How dare you compare what happened to Launch to Sheri or K&S! Those crooks continued to seek and take money from people knowing they had no product on hand and no intention of ever delivering. They took money under completely false pretenses.

Launch never took a dime from anyone without intending to deliver product. The moment the economy collapsed they went from being a marginally viable startup to a debt-laden nightmare. And the moment it became clear they were in serious financial trouble they removed the subscription button from their website. As difficult as this is for you to understand, that's the kind of behavior good, honest people engage in when they get in serious trouble. Unlike Sheri and K&S, they didn't try to get people to buy something they knew they couldn't deliver, just so they could keep the money.

As for those of us who make you sick with our moral relativism, let me assure you I lost way more than you when Launch collapsed. But rather than bitch about the completely inconsequential amount of money involved, I did what I could to try to help those who were seriously suffering from Launch's demise.

Luke, I understand that you very nicely allow your property to be used for local launches. Were I to drive out one day for a launch only to find that your property had catastrophically burned up the night before, the last thing I'd do is bitch about the gas money I spent to get there and what a crook you were for not refunding my expenses. I'd do what I could to help you.

So please stop calling the folks at Launch crooks. They're not. They are really nice people who brought something unique and fun to rocketry and got absolutely creamed for doing so. Continuing to call them crooks isn't honesty, it's boorishness.

Steve

Loved Launch. Someone please keep us updated on how to buy this new edition if it ever makes it to print.

JR - I'm genuinely sorry you got burned. I probably would have bought into a 3 year sub also if it hadn't been for the increased international rate. I had an initial sub for 1 year and was bummed about not being able to renew, not realising what was going on. Sheryl @ Semroc sent me the final issue, bless her soul.

For those interested in the possible special issue, you probably want to follow their https://www.facebook.com/pages/Launch-Magazine/625890014191829?ref=profile page.


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Facebook...why does it always have to be on Facebook?

Gawd I hate mining through that morass for any useful information.

H_Rocket said:

Facebook...why does it always have to be on Facebook?

Gawd I hate mining through that morass for any useful information.

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Ha!-Told the Viking Princess the other day that I didn't 'like' ANYBODY on Facebook. She replied; "Careful, your curmudgeon is showing!"

Gus said:

Luke,

How dare you compare what happened to Launch to Sheri or K&S! Those crooks continued to seek and take money from people knowing they had no product on hand and no intention of ever delivering. They took money under completely false pretenses.

Launch never took a dime from anyone without intending to deliver product. The moment the economy collapsed they went from being a marginally viable startup to a debt-laden nightmare. And the moment it became clear they were in serious financial trouble they removed the subscription button from their website. As difficult as this is for you to understand, that's the kind of behavior good, honest people engage in when they get in serious trouble. Unlike Sheri and K&S, they didn't try to get people to buy something they knew they couldn't deliver, just so they could keep the money.

As for those of us who make you sick with our moral relativism, let me assure you I lost way more than you when Launch collapsed. But rather than bitch about the completely inconsequential amount of money involved, I did what I could to try to help those who were seriously suffering from Launch's demise.

Luke, I understand that you very nicely allow your property to be used for local launches. Were I to drive out one day for a launch only to find that your property had catastrophically burned up the night before, the last thing I'd do is bitch about the gas money I spent to get there and what a crook you were for not refunding my expenses. I'd do what I could to help you.

So please stop calling the folks at Launch crooks. They're not. They are really nice people who brought something unique and fun to rocketry and got absolutely creamed for doing so. Continuing to call them crooks isn't honesty, it's boorishness.

Steve

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You just don't get it... and your "example" is the most convoluted, twisted piece of illogic I've ever read on here... Yeah I let a club launch off the farm... but I'm NOT TAKING ANY D@MN MONEY FOR IT, nor have I "promised" that agreement will remain in perpetuity. If you "arrived to find the whole place burned down" I wouldn't owe you a D@MN thing-- You didn't pay me a d@mn thing and don't owe me anything, and I CERTAINLY don't owe you anything for your gas and time... This level of illogic is just shockingly absurd... So I can understand your lack of understanding something as simple as 1) they were paid money for product and 2) they didn't deliver, and 3) they didn't make ANY effort to make it good in any other way or refund the money.

Facts are facts. I paid money in good faith for product that was never delivered. There wasn't an intent to defraud, but simple fact is, I paid money and got no product. Circumstances are beside the point. Got no product, got no refund.

Classic definition of crook to me.

I won't give them another thin dime for ANYTHING they do... I trusted them once, and they abused that trust. I would suggest anyone else who values their money strongly consider historical precedent before trusting them with their money, either.

Since when is it "okay" to promise to deliver a product and then welch on the deal not even halfway through and keep the money??? I'm sure K&S folks and Sheri had debts too; IIRC she had a nasty divorce and moved to Hawaii (or so I heard) and I bet she had a MOUNTAIN of debts, and had her "life uprooted" and all the other BS excuses you posted above. They promised to deliver product too and never delivered. Those events have been awhile ago, and from all accounts, K&S's former owners have "landed on their feet" and started some other hobby business (racing/motorcycles, something like that, IIRC), don't know about Sheri (not that it matters anyway since she sold the business to Red Arrow Hobbies), in any case, to my knowledge NEITHER of them have lifted a finger to make good on the money they accepted for product they didn't deliver... SO THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER. ACTIONS speak louder than WORDS...

There used to be a thing that was more valuable than money... it was called "reputation"... It was gained or lost by how one honored their commitments and KEPT THEIR WORD. I know in this modern society, filled with people willing to overlook ANYTHING, who believe EVERYTHING should be forgiven, and in fact wrongdoers should be patted on the head and commended for their misdeeds because of whatever "circumstances" made them do it, the thought of holding someone accountable for taking money in good faith and not delivering on their promises is anathema. I'm not one of them. I trusted them, and they ripped me off. They made NO effort to make it right. Maybe they felt sorry about it... SO WHAT?? Actions speak louder than words-- they did NOTHING to fix it.

Now they want to sell some new product AGAIN... they want to be trusted AGAIN, like what happened before never happened. IMHO they shot their reputation down in flames, and *I* won't trust them again... The stole from me once; I WILL NOT REWARD that sort of behavior by spending one thin dime with them ever again.

I understand that you're probably their buddy or think they hung the moon. I however do not. Let's just call it a difference of opinion and leave it at that. I'm not attacking your or disrespecting you... I just don't understand people who constantly DEFEND other people who did things that are WRONG and took money from people and welched on their agreements... nor do I care to. I'm not convincing you, and you CERTAINLY ARE NOT convincing me... Lets call it a draw and move on. But, I WILL NOT "just shut up" about the fact these people took money from me and then DIDN'T DELIVER, and DIDN'T MAKE IT RIGHT. Actions have consequences. Doesn't matter if it's 30 cents or 30 million dollars-- A CROOK IS A CROOK... A CROOK takes money and doesn't deliver what's promised, and cuts and runs and keeps the money! People can do what they want, and think what they want. It's up to them.

All I'm saying is "think carefully before trusting these people with your hard-earned money... they have a reputation for not delivering what they've promised"... THOSE ARE FACTS!

Later! OL JR

matthew said:

Loved Launch. Someone please keep us updated on how to buy this new edition if it ever makes it to print.

JR - I'm genuinely sorry you got burned. I probably would have bought into a 3 year sub also if it hadn't been for the increased international rate. I had an initial sub for 1 year and was bummed about not being able to renew, not realising what was going on. Sheryl @ Semroc sent me the final issue, bless her soul.

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Yes, it was a wonderful product... I bought every back issue because it was that good-- had to hunt down most of them before they started offering the back issues...

There's no doubt it was a well-done product... the price was higher than I'd usually pay for such a product, but the quality was there, so I felt it was worth it and worth supporting.

Then, quickly as it appeared, *poof* it was gone, and the money with it, and an "oh, sorry" is supposed to just make everything cool... I don't think so.

Later! OL JR

fyrwrxz said:

Ha!-Told the Viking Princess the other day that I didn't 'like' ANYBODY on Facebook. She replied; "Careful, your curmudgeon is showing!"

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Yeah... I guess mine is too...

I come by it honestly, though... My great grandfather had the reputation, STILL has it to this day, and I've been told this by MANY different people... "Your great grandpa would ride half a day to pay someone if he owed them 2 cents... and he'd ride half a day to collect 2 cents if someone owed him."

Call me hopelessly old-fashioned, but I believe that if you make a contract and promise to deliver something and accept money for it, that you should live up to your obligations. If you don't, you're a lowlife.

I know that's hopelessly outdated in THIS "society" we have today full of hand-wringers calling anyone who expects obligations should be honored as some sort of judgmental zealot...

Oh well... I've EARNED by curmudgeon-ness in the school of hard knocks. Anybody who doesn't like it can pound sand... LOL

Later! OL JR

Gus said:

Luke,

How dare you compare what happened to Launch to Sheri or K&S! Those crooks continued to seek and take money from people knowing they had no product on hand and no intention of ever delivering. They took money under completely false pretenses.

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They took my one year renewal less than two weeks before they shut down. Maybe they should have shut down the renewal process if they knew things were that bad. Almost the exact same thing as when Extreme Rocketry went under. If you know you're about to go out of business, stop taking peoples money!

Now if they want to try to make things right, they should offer those that lost money a free issue.

Rockets Magazine is a class act. At least they sent me videos for my remaining subscription! I salute Bob and Neil for doing that!

Guess I expect more from rocket people!

RandyM said:

They took my one year renewal less than two weeks before they shut down. Maybe they should have shut down the renewal process if they knew things were that bad. Almost the exact same thing as when Extreme Rocketry went under. If you know you're about to go out of business, stop taking peoples money!

Now if they want to try to make things right, they should offer those that lost money a free issue.

Rockets Magazine is a class act. At least they sent me videos for my remaining subscription! I salute Bob and Neil for doing that!

Guess I expect more from rocket people!

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EXACTLY!!!!

FINALLY someone else 'gets it'...

Later! OL JR

billspad said:

So I've got to ask. Did you think it would succeed?

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I was quite worried about Launch's intentions and potential impact on Sport Rocketry, and thus spent a considerable amount of time in conversation with the principals at NARAM 48 in 2006.

Seemed to me at the time that they were experienced publishing professionals who were seeking to attract a mixed market of space enthusiasts and modelers with a mainstream publication. They clearly understood the market they were trying to reach and the economics of the business, and understood they were taking a risk to launch the publication.

My assessment of their odds of success was better than 50-50, but not by a lot, i.e. they had no margin for error or unexpected events.

I don't know any of the details, but guess they were derailed by the financial crisis.

In contrast to the others who have posted here, my opinion is that the owners were principled people, not crooks in any way, shape or form. YMMV.

GuyNoir said:

Seemed to me at the time that they were experienced publishing professionals who were seeking to attract a mixed market of space enthusiasts and modelers with a mainstream publication. They clearly understood the market they were trying to reach and the economics of the business, and understood they were taking a risk to launch the publication.

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What I thought was that they understood who their market was but didn't know how small it was. My recollection is that the first few issues were almost entirely related to modeling and then they added in more professional rocketry to try to expand their readership. The magazine just looked to good to succeed.

I can understand someone going out of business, but there's a correct way to do it and it's called filing bankruptcy. I don't recall ever getting any creditor's notice in the mail so I assume they didn't file bankruptcy. If they did, then they would have to declare their assets and it would be understandable if their assets weren't sufficient to pay off their creditors.

But instead, they simply failed to deliver what they promised, AND THEN they stared up another publication (IIRC- Ad Astra?) that they were bragging about on their website. So the idea that they were financially insolvent so as to not be able to give refunds to their subscribers is a complete lie, as they certainly had no problem continuing in the publishing industry after their supposed financial difficulties.

In my case, they also illegally stole funds from my PayPal account to renew the subscription despite the fact that they have no authorization to do so. I had only subscribed for a one year term and their theft of money from me was about as blatant as it could get. They then failed to respond to my emails until I finally complained publicly about it.

So this is not a story of a small business person who ran out of assets, but rather, a company that stole money from people and clearly had the assets to continue in the publishing industry while using the skimmed money from subscribers to satisfy operating expenses for another publishing operation.

And now they have the gall to actually start up other projects using the Launch Magazine moniker despite haven't nothing followed through on their first efforts? Apparently that's the way to run a business- tell people it failed and that you won't pay them back, then 'start up' again in the future when it's in your benefit as if though nothing happened in the past. Amazing.

billspad said:

What I thought was that they understood who their market was but didn't know how small it was. My recollection is that the first few issues were almost entirely related to modeling and then they added in more professional rocketry to try to expand their readership. The magazine just looked to good to succeed.

Click to expand...

That was a big part of it... I agree that the "mixed audience" was going to be hard to maintain... the "space cadets" wanting to read about the latest and greatest in the aerospace world don't usually care much for the modeling, and unfortunately a great many rocketry hobbiests are more interested in sparks and flame color than in the history and current events in the space program. It would be a VERY tough act to balance those two competing interests in a single magazine.

One thing I noticed was that they were using high dollar paper and very color and graphics intensive formats... IOW production costs must have been through the ROOF. Perhaps downshifting a gear or two to a cheaper paper and a less expensive format to print would have made the difference... I don't know; printing isn't my game... but at the same time, trying to produce a "Cadillac" product on a Chevy Chevette budget doesn't seem sustainable, either.

I've seen as much in farm magazines. When I was farming cotton, I regularly got TWO monthly farm magazines... "Cotton Grower" and "Cotton Farming". I never subscribed, never paid the first cent for them... heck never even really wanted them... They were basically just "yellow dog" journalism, expounding the "agenda" of the PTB's of the cotton industry, and as a full-color full-page advertising venue, usually for high end stuff I couldn't afford anyway. Thing was, their production costs must have been enormous-- every monthly issue was printed on slick, glossy, "archival" paper (like Launch), brimming with photo essay stories from all over the world and all over the country, on a variety of issues and people... Absolutely no cost was spared, and it showed... of course every other page was a full or half page full-color advertisement... and a lot of times a two-facing page spread ad... I asked my seed and chemical dealer one time how I got the magazines-- I never asked for them, never filled out any cards, nothing.... "Oh, they buy the customer lists who buy seed from the seed companies..." Of course I eventually got SO sick and tired of their "yellow dog" journalism that I finally wrote them and told them to quit sending them to me-- I just tossed them straight into the trash when they arrived, because their reporting was SO slanted to the big industrial ag/ big gubmint types and their agenda that there was NOTHING in there of any value to me.

There's basically ONE farm magazine I subscribe to-- "Farm Show" magazine. It is mostly reader contributed "ideas" and "new products" that show farmers and entrepreneurs either modifying existing older equipment into something new, or something that can do the job of a new style farm tool that would cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, or improvements to existing equipment to do as good a job as new machinery. There's also a "best and worst buys" section where readers report on machinery, tools, supplies, or anything else they've bought and had a particularly good or bad experience with. Of course such a section would be the bane of advertisers, who would seek to exert undue influence on the magazine to make sure that THEIR products ALWAYS received a positive report, whether warranted or not. SO, Farm Show accepts NO advertising whatsoever. To compensate, the subscription price is higher than for many magazines, and they work to keep their production costs low... To keep costs down, the magazine is printed on newsprint (cheap), the staff is small, with only a couple "feature articles" requiring travel in person or a personal interview, and the printing is usually black and white, with some color photography, despite the higher cost of the subscriptions... It's a fine balancing act...

It's a shame "Launch" didn't try a cheaper production method to keep it afloat... yeah, I know, the fine quality was one of the main selling points... but better to have a cheaper magazine that was sustainable rather than one that went toe up... Quality could have increased again once the market was established, and the subscription and advertising income was there...

Oh well, what "could have been"... life's full of them...

Later! OL JR