Estes Phoenix Missile Clone (29mm Powered Mods?)

Thanks to an error I made on an Ebay auction (I didn't read the fine print well enough, and scored a pair of TLP-26L's instead of Estes PNC-80K's). As these were intended for my Optima clones, I now have an extra nose cone that doesn't match. So... What to do with it?

I have a small surplus of BT-80 body tube (Sunward's 18" tube), and I've never built a Phoenix missile before. Why not try that?

So the question I have, is should I build it with a 24mm motor tube, or red shift it to a 29mm? Anybody else build a BT-80 based 29mm Phoenix? Tips appreciated.

Thanks!
Jim

Madcow has a 2.2" Phoenix with a 29mm motor Mount. I think I would go with 29 especially if you're using basswood fins. That'll give the option of adapting down if you want.
Nate

I want to build a BT-60 based 18mm Phoenix. It is close enough to you project that, if you were to do a build thread (wink wink), I would be very happy

I have not built one in that size--but I did do a 4" version, and had similar considerations. While 38mm, for me, would lend more room for easier av-bay fabrication, I went with 54mm, figuring I could adapt down.

Flew her on a 54mm anyway. Heh.


Later!

--Coop

K'Tesh said:

Thanks to an error I made on an Ebay auction (I didn't read the fine print well enough, and scored a pair of TLP-26L's instead of Estes PNC-80K's). As these were intended for my Optima clones, I now have an extra nose cone that doesn't match. So... What to do with it?

I have a small surplus of BT-80 body tube (Sunward's 18" tube), and I've never built a Phoenix missile before. Why not try that?

So the question I have, is should I build it with a 24mm motor tube, or red shift it to a 29mm? Anybody else build a BT-80 based 29mm Phoenix? Tips appreciated.

Thanks!
Jim

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I had always assumed that that was your Phoenix that launched from the RC Barge in that Video you posted way back.
The one that goes up and then turned into an awesome Glider. I love that Video.

TopRamen said:

I had always assumed that that was your Phoenix that launched from the RC Barge in that Video you posted way back.
The one that goes up and then turned into an awesome Glider. I love that Video.

Click to expand...

Nope... Not mine.

Ok... Small problem... My incision. As you may or may not know, I went under the knife on Friday, and due to a small problem (lack of foresight) I don't have a fin pattern for the Phoenix. I'm not terribly mobile right now, and don't have a printer at home.

Previously, I printed out the fin pattern from JimZ's site, but the scale is a single inch marking in a black bar, and not a ruler laid alongside. I printed a rocksim fin pattern (after converting it to a .ork format), and the lengths were identical, but the span's weren't. Now, I'm aware that there were at least two incarnations of the Phoenix, possibly 3 from Estes. Perhaps there were differences in the fins from version to version.

I can't use the JimZ version printed because I'm using TTW fin tabs, and I lost 'em somehow, so I can't measure them. Could someone upload a scan of them with the measurements along each edge so I can sim it with TTW fins?

Thanks!
Jim

why not down load a rocsim and let OR add the fin tabs for you?. the file I checked(oop_estes_aim_54_phoenix.rkt) the fin span does not appear to be the proper scale*(2.625" vs 1.8", most likely to get a flyable model ). the aft fins will have to be surface mount anyway.
*full scale has a diameter of 15" and a wingspan of 36"
Rex

Rex R said:

why not down load a rocsim and let OR add the fin tabs for you?. the file I checked(oop_estes_aim_54_phoenix.rkt) the fin span does not appear to be the proper scale*(2.625" vs 1.8", most likely to get a flyable model ). the aft fins will have to be surface mount anyway.
*full scale has a diameter of 15" and a wingspan of 36"
Rex

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Hi Rex,

The decals I ordered are reproductions of the ones from Estes. I don't want to go and change them now.

And why does the aft fins need to be surface mount? I think TTW can still work for them.

if the root chord remains the same no problem with span...the fins don't have markings . the file I listed/looked at is for the catalog #1380 version (which is the version on the JimZ site). the motor tube is positioned so the motor hook is even with the end of the airframe, doesn't leave much for the aft fins to glue to.
Rex

K'Tesh said:

Thanks to an error I made on an Ebay auction (I didn't read the fine print well enough, and scored a pair of TLP-26L's instead of Estes PNC-80K's). As these were intended for my Optima clones, I now have an extra nose cone that doesn't match. So... What to do with it?

I have a small surplus of BT-80 body tube (Sunward's 18" tube), and I've never built a Phoenix missile before. Why not try that?

So the question I have, is should I build it with a 24mm motor tube, or red shift it to a 29mm? Anybody else build a BT-80 based 29mm Phoenix? Tips appreciated.

Thanks!
Jim

Click to expand...

Jim,
As you are aware, the Estes #1380 PHOENIX missile kit is a "Dramatic Semi-Scale" kit. The Estes PNC 80-K Plastic Nose Cone in that kit, definitely is not scale. But it's what came with that kit.
I have 2 Opened original Estes #1380 PHOENIX kits here. Both are from their original release back in the early 80's. I have one set of the Balsa fins that are all loose, and I have one set of the Balsa fins sheets intact.
These first release #1380 kits had a Part H #JT-80C Tube Coupler that was only 1" long. (This was way too short of a tube coupler for this kit and the BT-80 #1291 Maxi Alpha kits. That JT-80C is the part in my #1380 kits. Re-released versions of this kit had a Estes 3" long Tube Coupler.
If you are building a stock Estes #1380 Phoenix missile kit or cloning it with Estes equivalent ID x OD Body Tubes, then I'd recommend that you not go to 29mm motor mount tubes, but rather use thick walled BT-50 motor mount tubes for 24mm motors.
If you wanted to build a 2.6" diameter Phoenix Missile to fly on 29mm or even 38mm motors, then I'd recommend thick walled BT-80 tubes and the Madcow 2.6" Plastic Nose Cone + Plywood Centering Rings and fins.
I have one of the Madcow 2.6" Plastic Nose Cones, and it is somewhat more accurate for a 2.6" Phoenix semi scale build. I have about 60 34" long thick walled BT-80s for building close of Estes BT-80 kits. And I only have about 40 Estes PNC-80 Plastic Nose Cones left for clone kits. I recently sold 50 PNC-80's.
For myself, I plan on buying the Madcow 4" Phoenix missile kit as the nose cone on their 4" kit is closer to what it should actually look like.
I still have 3 - Estes #2035 Optima (boxed and shrink wrapped) kits and 1 - Estes #2094 Shadow - Challenge Series ( boxed and shrink wrapped)

Larry B

Stargate said:

I still have 3 - Estes #2035 Optima (boxed and shrink wrapped) kits and 1 - Estes #2094 Shadow - Challenge Series ( boxed and shrink wrapped)

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I have one box of each but blew the shrink wrap. You ever wanna dump an optima....call me first I have a crazy obsession with this kit.

Back on topic, I wouldn't go 29mm. It's gonna need a ton of noseweight. I've got two of the kits, built, and they're fun fliers on D12's. F39W's should be more than enough to blast these guys anyways.

Jim, you should look at the MadCow 4" phoenix instructions/Rocsim file and see how they deal with fin tabs for both the aft fins & the wings and see if that gives you some ideas. and yes I just ordered one .
Rex