The Price of Milk

farsidius said:

The only reason adult cows, or most any other mammal, stops drinking milk as they get older has nothing to do with the milk being bad for them (or us). Anyone who has spent time on a dairy farm knows that the calf stops drinking because momma cow forces it to stop - sometimes quite aggressively with lots of kicking. The calf gets too big and momma gets tired of it teething on her teats. It's that simple. The calf learns to supplant the nutrients it was getting from mom with other foods. And, yes, we could learn to do the same and go without milk - but why? The reasons for us not drinking milk as an adult are mostly personal and philosophical, and not tied to real nutritional or physiological harm. There were studies from 20-30 years ago that tried to tie milk consumption to increased risk of some cancers and osteoporosis. And while some of these followed large population groups, they were very poorly controlled and the conclusions that were tied to milk were tenuous at best (these are the studies that I'm guessing most doctors and nutritionists are leaning on when suggesting that milk is bad for you). Subsequent studies haven't drawn similar conclusions and most find some milk to be beneficial in your diet. Milk is best for you when it's whole milk;skim is missing the fats that aid in the absorption of the vitamins and minerals that are in it. So, if you're drinking skim milk you're really only do so mostly for the taste, not the nutritional benefit.

If you're going to give up something from a cow, it should be red meat. Red meat consumption is one of the strongest indicators of increased colon cancer risk. I love a good steak or roast and still eat it occasionally, but have reduced it to probably only 5% of my diet. Sad, I know.
:duck:

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Whenever I hear people saying that drinking milk isn't good because it's "not natural" or "cow milk isn't make for human consumption" I wonder what they think about eating fruits (or pretty much anything else). Plants make fruit around seeds to give the seeds enough nutrients and water to get it started growing - the fruit is not required if someone plants the seed in nice moist soil but nature doesn't provide a reliable way for seeds to get buried without help. An apple falling from the tree will allow the seed to grow in a very small percentage of cases, otherwise you'd have hundreds of apple trees growing under every tree, but it's still a lot higher than if the seeds fell alone on the ground without the apple. Or perhaps an animal carries the apple somewhere and eats part and drops the rest with the seeds somewhere and a tree will grow. But... humans still eat apples because they're delicious and we can get nutrients too, but nobody says not to eat apples because they weren't made for human consumption.

My name is Tony and I am a Milkaholic! Just under a gallon a day. I went to Hawaii twice last year. I saw it as high as $11.50 a gallon at the ABC stores.

Tony

tfish said:

My name is Tony and I am a Milkaholic! Just under a gallon a day. I went to Hawaii twice last year. I saw it as high as $11.50 a gallon at the ABC stores.Tony

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You should save some money and switch to Jack Daniels.

Whenever I hear people saying that drinking milk isn't good because it's "not natural" or "cow milk isn't make for human consumption" I wonder what they think about eating fruits (or pretty much anything else)

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This.

farsidius said:

Fact: More people are killed by cows every year than by sharks. Even more reason to eat their tasty meat and drink their yummy milk.

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As a rancher, I can tell you that yeah, you DO have to be careful of cattle. ANY animal that outweighs most folks by at least 10:1 is a hazard merely from their bulk, without any intent or defensiveness.

Some cattle don't mind dogs, some react violently to dogs. Some don't mind at times but will get defensive at other times (like when they have calves). Some breeds and mixed breeds are worse than others tempermentally. I've had a few run-ins myself.

A couple decades ago, my brother and I were out in the pasture, getting some cotton trailers ready to go for the season... we used to park the trailers out in the pasture during the fall, winter, and spring when not needed for cotton harvest, to keep them out of the way. We were airing up tires and checking the trailers out before hooking up to them with the pickup to pull them out of the pasture. While we were checking trailers, my Dad's dog, a Rottweiler/Chow mix, came out into the pasture to see what we were up to. The crossbred cows (mostly Hereford, part Brahman) in the pasture had been grazing contentedly, until the dog trotted over towards them to see what they were up to... at which point the lead cow (there's always a dominant female that the rest of the herd pretty much follows whatever she does) took off after the dog, kicking up her heels and hookin her horns with tosses of her head down close to the ground, bucking like a bronco, at which point the rest of the cows joined her and they chased the frightened dog clean across the pasture past us and through the fence. My brother and I had to grab onto the sides of the trailers and climb up out of the way, because for a bit the dog was running towards us for "protection" and taking us down with him. Once we climbed up out of the way, the dog kept running until he went through the fence. The cows stopped just short of it, snorting at the dog over the fence.

I used to feed quite a bit of cottonseed cubes (a concoction of cottonseed meal (after its pressed for oil), grain, roughage, and molasses and stuff to bind it together, pressed through a large version of a dog-food kibble making machine) to keep the cattle 'trained' to come into the pens, to make it easier at loading time. I'd get out of the truck, grab a 50 lb bag of cubes, rip the top off the bag, and start walking around the pens, scattering the cubes out of the sack by shaking it and slowly dumping them out on the ground. The cattle would come running into the pen and jockey for the best position, usually at the front of the herd, directly behind me. Of course the bull, being the biggest, and the lead cow, being the smartest/usually second biggest, would basically trot along on either side of me like overgrown dogs. The rest would trail along behind them. Anyway, one day as I was dumping cubes, the bull was doing his usual "trot alongside like a 1 ton dog" routine and evidently another cow hooked him in the butt, because he kind of zipped past me all of a sudden, and the tip of his horn ran up the inside of my arm from the elbow nearly the wrist. It didn't flay my arm open, but it DID "strawberry" my skin from the elbow nearly to the wrist, rolling the hide off the surface of my skin and busting numerous capillaries. It PO'd me more than hurt me, so after that, I would always carry my grandmother's cane with me, and solidly whack them both across the horns anytime they got too close to me... got to make cattle respect you and fear you a little, otherwise they'll run over you.

I prefer Herefords mostly because they are even tempered and pretty gentle. I get rid of most "flighty" or tempermental cattle pretty quickly. Immature heifers tend to be flighty and tempermental (teenagers are teenagers, regardless of species) and usually settle down some after they have a calf, especially after they've had a couple calves. The Hereford mix bulls I run tend to be pretty gentle, they'd rather wander off than put up a fight. My Hereford mix cows are also usually not particularly aggressive about anybody or anything messing with their calves, either, although this is something that one has to be particularly careful about... Keira had her dog out on a cable in the pasture a few weeks ago, and the calves (which tend to run in a "group" along with a "herd mama" or "babysitter" (heifer or young cow) came over to sniff at her and perhaps play a bit... evidently the dog's interest in the calves upset a couple of the mama cows, and they came over and started circling the dog, in a pretty threatening manner, so Betty ran out there and got the dog and brought her back on the porch...

One does have to be careful... Later! OL JR

Larry Curcio said:

I was almost killed by a cow in back 1969. My first (and only) cow-milking experience. Walked in front of her to pat her on the head and she butted me into the barn wall - twice hard and fast. If she had had horns, I wouldn't be writing this. Luckily, the horns had been removed when she was a calf.

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Cattle don't see particularly well to the front... they're eyes are set so they can see better to the sides...almost 180 degrees in fact... but they don't see as well directly behind themselves, or directly in front (but worse to the rear of course). You shouldn't approach or touch a cow that you're standing directly in front of, because they cannot see clearly enough to determine that you aren't attacking them or present a mortal threat. So, the react instinctively to eliminate the possible threat.

We handle all our cattle on foot... rarely do we use a vehicle or tractor to run cattle. Once you know how to handle them, it's not that difficult. For instance, if you draw a straight line from your position through the cows position, (basically, moving so that the cow is directly between you and where you want the cow to go, or where you want the cow to go is directly opposite of where you are) and then move in slowly and steadily toward the cow, at some point, when you enter her "comfort zone", she will move away from you, generally in the direction opposite of your position. Approaching a cow from the back 1/4 on either side, (think of a cow with the four cardinal points of the compass overlaid on top of her, with them offset 45 degrees from her nose-to-tail backbone line) will generally get the cow moving forward the direction she's pointed, moving up to the 'half position" directly abreast of her on either side and then moving closer will generally make her turn. Approaching from the front quarter position on either side will generally make the cow stop, and approaching another few steps closer will usually make the cow turn to the opposite direction from which you are approaching.

When you approach a cow, she will generally not pay much attention to you, especially if she's "used" to you being around. If she's unfamiliar with your sight or smell, it raises their interest much sooner of course. If you walk towards a cow slowly and steadily, you will soon raise her interest... she'll generally stop grazing or whatever she's doing and look you over, perk her ears toward you, and perhaps sniff if you're upwind. If you continue toward her, at some point her interest will turn to "flight" and she'll move away from you, generally in whatever direction she is facing, unless you're approaching her from the front, in which case she'll usually turn and move to the opposite side and generally directly away from you, or to whatever degree she chooses to turn away from you. Generally speaking, if you relax, they relax... they don't want to move any faster than they have to (usually, though flighty cattle are the exception) to keep you at the fringe of their "comfort zone". You'll know when you enter their comfort zone, because that's when they'll turn and move. You can manipulate their movements by coming into and out of their comfort zone, and moving around peripherally around the comfort zone. Flighty cattle usually have LARGE comfort zones, and particularly flighty cattle will usually raise their tail and ears very erect, raise their head as far as possible to inspect you, and when they break, usually break and run or gallop, sometimes in a random direction. I don't like flighty, overly fearful cattle. For one thing, they're hard to handle. Secondly, studies have shown that flighty cattle don't gain weight well, and tend to be "dark cutters"... meaning when slaughtered, the meat turns out to be a dark red color and be tough and taste bad, because flighty cattle tend to have an "adrenaline rush" when they get spooked, which burns up the marbling fat in the meat muscles, which is there to be the "instant energy rush" when they need it for say running from a predator, but the marbling is what makes the meat tender and tasty... the other thing is, the adrenaline burns up oxygen and makes the meat dark, and leaves a bad taste in it. There's a pretty big push by breeders and buyers to get rid of as many flighty cattle as possible from herds, but cows are like people in that some of them are more 'fearful' than others... so it can't be eliminated entirely...

Later! OL JR

shreadvector said:

How about a gallon of gasoline?

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I live in Honolulu and premium gas is $4.60 range.

Almost everything is more expensive here. I buy almost all my fruit from Costco. Not only is the price better the quality seems better.

When you live here a long time you kind of just accept the way it is and get used to the high prices.

Yes, there are a lot of pigs in the hills.