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Never seen a 2 Pack. I can get Three Packs of D12s at our LHS for around $11

I was doing some motor shopping on Hobbylinc this morning and noticed that they had item tags for the 2-packs of D12-0, D12-3, D12-5, D12-7.
They also had a spot for C11-0, C11-3, C11-5 and C11-7 two packs. Although these items were not currently in stock and are due in in mid August.
The price is enticing at 5.59 for C11s and 8.39 for D12s (Hobbylinc prices)

TopRamen said:

Never seen a 2 Pack. I can get Three Packs of D12s at our LHS for around $11

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You will someday. Estes is switching over to 2-packs for D12's and C11's. The 3-packs are on the way out.

raohara said:

You will someday. Estes is switching over to 2-packs for D12's and C11's. The 3-packs are on the way out.

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And you can be sure the price will be well above 2/3 that of a 3 pack

The Estes site also implies a 2-pack is coming for C11 and D motors. The price for a C11 2-pack is 13 cents above 2/3rds of the 3-pack and the D is 33 cents higher.

Rocketjunkie said:

And you can be sure the price will be well above 2/3 that of a 3 pack

Click to expand...

There are three ways by which inflation eats away at the purchasing power of your dollar.
One is the simple and often dramatic, increase in MSRP; where once it was $1.00 now it is $1.25.
The second is what Estes is doing with their 24mm motor line; where once you got three for $11.00 now you get two for $10.00. It kind of mitigates the shock of having the three packs suddenly go to $15.00.

The third method is perhaps the most insidious as it is often the most difficult to notice and that is a drop in quality and a change in manufacturing materials or methods. Gone are the lathe turned balsa nose cones, often unique to each rocket; enter the mass produced plastic nose cones each now used on ten of twelve new rocket designs.

On topic; I wish my Wal-Mart sold any rocket stuff.

They sold two-packs of D12-3 motors many years ago to use with the Dude.

I sometimes think that many Wal-Marts get shipped stuff that just happens to drop into Wal-Mart’s warehouses’ laps.
They don’t know what to do with it anymore than the vast majority of their customers.

True story about my local Wal-Mart. My niece’s daughter needed to have a pedal replaced on her bicycle. Being an ex-bicyclist I volunteered to perform the surgery. I went to Wal-Mart and bought a set of pedals, “Made in China”, where else, and attempted to install them. Couldn’t be done.
Upon closer inspection the threads turned out to not be threads at all, they were in fact just a set of concentric rings cut into the spindle. I returned the pedals to Wal-Mart and looked at the remaining sets of pedals they had in stock.

All three remaining sets had the same machining flaw. I took all three sets up to the customer service desk and explained to the person there what the problem was and got a cash refund instead of a new set of pedals.

A week or so later I was once again at Wal-Mart and just out of curiosity I checked the bicycle parts wall and there back on their wire were those selfsame four sets of faulty and unusable pedals.

I give up!!

It's a great shopping experience...if you can stand the smell.

Smaller packs with higher unit cost is going the wrong way! I want D and E motors in packs of 12 or 24 at a discount!

ThirstyBarbarian said:

Smaller packs with higher unit cost is going the wrong way! I want D and E motors in packs of 12 or 24 at a discount!

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They are not higher unit cost. The full MSRP of a three pack divided by three is the unit price. Multiply that by two and the price for a twin pack will be close to the standard Wal-Mart pack of motors.

4 x 13mm
3 X 18mm
2 x 24mm

boomtube said:

I sometimes think that many Wal-Marts get shipped stuff that just happens to drop into Wal-Mart’s warehouses’ laps.
They don’t know what to do with it anymore than the vast majority of their customers.

True story about my local Wal-Mart. My niece’s daughter needed to have a pedal replaced on her bicycle. Being an ex-bicyclist I volunteered to perform the surgery. I went to Wal-Mart and bought a set of pedals, “Made in China”, where else, and attempted to install them. Couldn’t be done.
Upon closer inspection the threads turned out to not be threads at all, they were in fact just a set of concentric rings cut into the spindle. I returned the pedals to Wal-Mart and looked at the remaining sets of pedals they had in stock.

All three remaining sets had the same machining flaw. I took all three sets up to the customer service desk and explained to the person there what the problem was and got a cash refund instead of a new set of pedals.

A week or so later I was once again at Wal-Mart and just out of curiosity I checked the bicycle parts wall and there back on their wire were those selfsame four sets of faulty and unusable pedals.

I give up!!

Click to expand...

That's cheap Chinese junk for you... Actually machining in threads requires that the parts be within a set tolerance to start, and that one has a hardened set of thread cutting dies to actually cut the threads... parts which wear out and must be replaced after completing a set number of parts...

Sounds similar to the "hammer in" type grease zerks... they don't have 1/8 inch pipe threads cut into them-- instead, just raised barbed ribs around them. You're supposed to drill a hole and then using some sort of little tool, use a hammer to beat the thing into the hole. Of course, it's just an 'interference fit' (not even a true "press fit"). IOW, it's just crap. Usually within a couple applications of grease, the thing pops out and has to be pried out of the grease gun coupler. Then you get to redrill it and tap it and use a REAL threaded grease zerk.

Sounds like these pedals were the same... hammer them into the hole. Of course the first time the kid pushes too hard or stands up and pedals, the things snap off... utter crap.

Walmart has set price as the ONLY metric for putting stuff on their shelves. Therefore quality is of no consequence.

If you want something decent, you have to go elsewhere. If you want something cheap, WM is a good bet.

As far as what stores stock, yeah, there's a LOT of stupidity in various buying offices and stocking agents to go around. I had a buddy who worked for the "local" Sears Hardware store... he commented on how they received a shipment of SNOW BLOWERS to put out on the sales floor... certainly this had to be a mistake... we're 45 miles southwest of HOUSTON for pity's sake-- for us a BIG SNOWSTORM is an inch or two of snow or ice pellets sufficient to cover up the grass in the yard... and if you're LUCKY it lasts 12-24 hours before it's gone. We sell about as many snowblowers as in Honolulu. Upon checking, he was testily informed that "yes, CORPORATE ordered that ALL stores get snowblowers and stock them on the sales floor... regardless of location."

Anyway, this sort of stupidity is pretty commonplace. Just go in any TSC store and you'll see gobs of it...

Later! OL JR

shreadvector said:

They are not higher unit cost. The full MSRP of a three pack divided by three is the unit price. Multiply that by two and the price for a twin pack will be close to the standard Wal-Mart pack of motors.

4 x 13mm
3 X 18mm
2 x 24mm

Click to expand...

In the case of the D motors it's a few cents more per motor in the 2 pack than it is in the 3 pack. Not a big deal, but certainly not a better deal. My main point was that I'd like to be able to get a break for buying in quantity, which is generally how I buy motors. Instead of buying 10 packs of D12-3s, it would be nice to get a box of 30 with a discount.

ThirstyBarbarian said:

In the case of the D motors it's a few cents more per motor in the 2 pack than it is in the 3 pack. Not a big deal, but certainly not a better deal. My main point was that I'd like to be able to get a break for buying in quantity, which is generally how I buy motors. Instead of buying 10 packs of D12-3s, it would be nice to get a box of 30 with a discount.

Click to expand...

Wouldn't it though??

Later! OL JR

ThirstyBarbarian said:

In the case of the D motors it's a few cents more per motor in the 2 pack than it is in the 3 pack. Not a big deal, but certainly not a better deal. My main point was that I'd like to be able to get a break for buying in quantity, which is generally how I buy motors. Instead of buying 10 packs of D12-3s, it would be nice to get a box of 30 with a discount.

Click to expand...

I wonder what the criteria is for producing bulk packs?

It seems the bulk packs are geared toward matching with bulk packs of rockets for educators with the Blast-Off pack the only one aimed at the general consumer.

I, personally, would like to see bulk packs of A3-4T in addition to bulk packs of 1/2A3-4T.

Sounds similar to the "hammer in" type grease zerks... they don't have 1/8 inch pipe threads cut into them-- instead, just raised barbed ribs around them. You're supposed to drill a hole and then using some sort of little tool, use a hammer to beat the thing into the hole. Of course, it's just an 'interference fit' (not even a true "press fit"). IOW, it's just crap. Usually within a couple applications of grease, the thing pops out and has to be pried out of the grease gun coupler. Then you get to redrill it and tap it and use a REAL threaded grease zerk.

Sounds like these pedals were the same... hammer them into the hole. Of course the first time the kid pushes too hard or stands up and pedals, the things snap off... utter crap.

Click to expand...

I’ve never heard of what you are referring to but these pedals were absolutely supposed to have actual threads, the thread size/type was printed on the tag.
This was just the result of shoddy craftsmanship and zero quality control.

boomtube said:

I’ve never heard of what you are referring to but these pedals were absolutely supposed to have actual threads, the thread size/type was printed on the tag.
This was just the result of shoddy craftsmanship and zero quality control.

Click to expand...

I agree with you that something is seriously wrong with this product, but I'm not sure how a manufacturing error or bad craftsmanship could result in a threaded piece ending up with concentric rings instead. They must have never intended to thread them in the first place, but sell them as if they had --- more a case of fraud than poor craftsmanship.

ThirstyBarbarian said:

I agree with you that something is seriously wrong with this product, but I'm not sure how a manufacturing error or bad craftsmanship could result in a threaded piece ending up with concentric rings instead. They must have never intended to thread them in the first place, but sell them as if they had --- more a case of fraud than poor craftsmanship.

Click to expand...

The problem with that theory is that the spindle was obviously turned on a lathe and cutting threads on a lathe is a simple affair. Cutting a set of concentric rings actually takes more effort because the cutting head has to be withdrawn from the spinning spindle, moved over and then reengaged. This would have to be performed multiple times to get the result seen on these pedals.

Frankly I can’t arrive at a solution as to how these parts were miss-machined in the manner they were.
If I had to guess; I’d say somebody in China was playing a practical joke.

boomtube said:

The problem with that theory is that the spindle was obviously turned on a lathe and cutting threads on a lathe is a simple affair. Cutting a set of concentric rings actually takes more effort because the cutting head has to be withdrawn from the spinning spindle, moved over and then reengaged. This would have to be performed multiple times to get the result seen on these pedals.

Frankly I can’t arrive at a solution as to how these parts were miss-machined in the manner they were.
If I had to guess; I’d say somebody in China was playing a practical joke.

Click to expand...

It's a weird mystery.

boomtube said:

I’ve never heard of what you are referring to but these pedals were absolutely supposed to have actual threads, the thread size/type was printed on the tag.
This was just the result of shoddy craftsmanship and zero quality control.

Click to expand...

Oh, ok...

Yep, cheap Chinese junk then... zero quality control. They use shoddy "tooling" to start with and then use it WAY past the point where it's worn out and should have long been scrapped and replaced. My BIL in Indiana whom I help harvest and plant crops every year used to work in a bolt plant about 3 miles from his farm... Interesting stuff, how they make fasteners...

The "hammer in" grease zerks are about like scotch-locks... fit only to be thrown away and replaced with actual decent components... "If you're going to do it, do it right!"

Later! OL JR

boomtube said:

The problem with that theory is that the spindle was obviously turned on a lathe and cutting threads on a lathe is a simple affair. Cutting a set of concentric rings actually takes more effort because the cutting head has to be withdrawn from the spinning spindle, moved over and then reengaged. This would have to be performed multiple times to get the result seen on these pedals.

Frankly I can’t arrive at a solution as to how these parts were miss-machined in the manner they were.
If I had to guess; I’d say somebody in China was playing a practical joke.

Click to expand...

Most threads today are made from a pair of blocks, each with thread-shaped (V) grooves cut into them at the proper angle (remember the old "inclined plane wrapped around a cylinder" example of spirals from geometry class??) so that when the part is rolled between the blocks (one of which is fixed, the other is pushed linearly past the other hydraulically), with the part "pinched" between them, embossing the threads into the steel.

The other alternative is of course regular thread dies. Either of these methods require tool-grade steel with the proper threads cut into them already, and both will wear out over prolonged use... using tooling past it's usable lifetime results in extremely poor results in the finished product, to the point of being unusable.

You CAN cut threads on a lathe, but it's a time consuming process compared to the other methods. Rolled threads are actually STRONGER than cut threads, because the steel is crushed inward by the rolling action, making it "denser" and tightening the metallic lattices in the metal, and no metal is physically removed, just "moved around" to create the right shape. Cut threads, either on a lathe or using a die, will remove shavings of steel from the part, thus making it weaker.

I've seen poor-quality threads like this before... the metal is torn or "smooshed" by the tooling instead of being properly shaped, leaving a rough, shoddy surface that is useless.

"Made in China"... the mark of quality!

Later! OL JR

My local Bigg Lotts/Odd Lots store regularly featured multiple packs of 1/2" machine screws or sheet metal screws for sale in a bubble pack.
My wife thought it was a great deal. She bought a pack with the intent to use them to screw into wood and assemble a box or two. We found that 1/3 of the package had excess flashing on the slot cut across the top. A sure sign of low quality product.

Second trip to Odd Lotts, she bought a variety package of 12 different types or sizes of screws...lengths, slots, threads, material, etc. Once openned, the package would not reseal...resulting in spills of 12 different types of screws mixed together... and again, our examination resulted in about 1/3 of all the screws, no matter what the type,length, style... was excess flashing or incomplete threads. What crap!

I told her not to shop there anymore. We have a standing joke now about not letting the other one shop there alone unless we are along for quality control...

I know what we should do...

Let's all go to our LHS, and buy FOUR boxes of Flight Pack bulk boxes.... We open them all up, sort them by size or value...and reload them into boxes again.... $240 worth of investment, and we get four boxes of A8-3, B6-4, C6-3 and C6-5... about 24 of each type for $60 bucks... discounting the ignitors, recovery wadding and plastic plugs...

Is everyone happy now?

I was at my Local Walmart today and went to see what they had for Motors. All they had were 2 Packs of D12-0.

Walmart has started selling rocket motors again? I haven't seen any sign of it yet in my area, but I'll be glad when it returns. I obtained nearly all of my Estes motors from Walmart during the past decade. The two stores in the region were the only sources of them in a 100-mile radius. I have had to carefully ration my existing stock for the past four years because of the absence of a local vendor.

MarkII said:

Walmart has started selling rocket motors again? I haven't seen any sign of it yet in my area, but I'll be glad when it returns. I obtained nearly all of my Estes motors from Walmart during the past decade. The two stores in the region were the only sources of them in a 100-mile radius. I have had to carefully ration my existing stock for the past four years because of the absence of a local vendor.

Click to expand...

For over a year SOME Walmart locations have carried Estes rockets motors and launch sets.

Not all locations.

They are currently in the middle of a "modular shelving unit reset". Stock will dwindle until new stock arrives.

My local Walmart, in Berlin, Vermont, is switching over to being a "Super Walmart". Maybe when they get everything re-done, they will get some more Motors.

I was recently in my local Walmart, and I had the same experience I've had several times before. I went to the toy section, checked up and down all aisles, and found nothing. So I went to an "associate" who was stocking shelves and asked, "Does the store carry model rockets?"

"What? ROCKETS?"

"Yes, do you carry Estes Flying Model Rockets and rocket engines?"

Then they just stand there, looking at me askance, with an expression that says, "What are you? A freakin' idiot?"

The Walmarts in my area are stocking motors/ E2X boosters, and basic launch kits. The one I frequent most often of course only has 2 packs of D12-0, but one of the others had B6-4 (3 pk), C6-5 (3 pk), D12-0, and D12-5. Now that store only has D12-5 2 packs, and D12-0 2 packs....wonder how that happened I havent checked the other 3 Walmarts in the area to see what they have.