LDRS 33 Videos Now on YouTube

For us rocketeers who couldn't make LDRS and need a fix, if you do a search on YouTube using "LDRS 33" you will see a number of videos are now posted. Enjoy, Jeff

Seems to me, those folks near pad 4 on that Spitfire launch were in rather close (or too close) proximity of that rocket. Is that not an issue here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No-_Qp8IcQM

I looked at a lot of those videos...and it seems from the camera angle that there were a lot of folks standing close to the pads. Look at the one where they launch I think a K then an M....there is a small kid standing behind the legs of his dad. This has got to be an optical illusion or something...I hope people are not to close.....just don't think they would do that....

Gary-

I watched that video you mentioned......wow...those guys and everybody else....look VERY close! Its either an optical illusion or this is very very wrong.

AKVP said:

Gary-

I watched that video you mentioned......wow...those guys and everybody else....look VERY close! Its either an optical illusion or this is very very wrong.

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It is an optical illusion. The folks running LDRS are being very safety-conscious. In fact, in most cases research (not commercial) distances are being adhered to.

Before I get piled on....I said it must be an optical illusion OR it is wrong. I Never intended to imply nor infer poor safety practices or otherwise imply or infer any improper range behavior of any and all LDRS official, organizer, vendor, endemic wildlife, volunteer or spectator etc. I never intended to infer, imply or otherwise make any indication of my opinion on the safety consciousness of said individuals at or near the LDRS event-past, present or future.

I am looking at some of those videos. It looks like some of the trees, cars, and people are too close to the pads. I hope this is just an illusion.

Hey guys. Chill out and thank Max for his vids. Since this is a rx launch; distances are actually double what is required for commercial launches. Take the discussion offline please; feel free to pm me; I'll respond after we continue to safely execute ldrs33!

And again the theme should be: thank you max for posting! And I'll see you on the field tomorrow.

Eric

No offense intended but it sure look like there was someone within 100 feet of the pad for the under thrust Loc Bruiser. The same with the trailer and tree in the V2 flight.

If you read my post, I referred to it as too close or an illusion.

I agree it is probably an illusion.

cwbullet said:

No offense intended but it sure look like there was someone within 100 feet of the pad for the under thrust Loc Bruiser. The same with the trailer and tree in the V2 flight.

If you read my post, I referred to it as too close or an illusion.

I agree it is probably an illusion.

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Haven't seen the video yet but I can personally attest that no one was 100' away from the pseudo bruiser flight.

Chuck my friend you missed my point. I'm sorry you chose not to pm me as requested . Here's the big secret: for the uninformed bong is an abandoned runway that is consequently narrow and long. This dictates a somewhat unique layout where the pads go straight out from the flightline unlike the more common perpendicular layout. When you combine this layout, zoom cameras, and a viewpoint from the pits or spectator area, I promise hat you will have people appearing to be standing on the pads being launched from!

Last note for now. A quick lesson from the road for those that aren't getting my point. I used to occasionally write articles for magazines such as extreme rocketry and rockets. Rarely did I ever hear mention of the fact that I wrote the article. That was just fine with me; I'm not after big recognition or fame. But, I did receive one lone piece of feedback that my writing style was boring. I thanked them for their feedback and haven't spent the time away from my family or late nights to put together an article since. Point is: in his third post in TRF you guys jump on someone taking the time to take, edit, post, then share a video for all those that are and are not able to attend ldrs this year. Are my expectations of the rocket community too high that we can't simply say thank you and enjoy?

If you have safety concerns, there are plenty of means to communicate them; I'm a nobody but I don't feel this is the place to do it!

Thanks again Max for sharing; I hope you. An be encouraged to continue sharing your talents!

Eric (who is going to bed now)!

Eric, I just watched the slo-mo video of your clustered/staged flight. Very nicely done! Congrats on a nice flight.

Worsaer said:

Eric, I just watched the slo-mo video of your clustered/staged flight. Very nicely done! Congrats on a nice flight.

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Thanks Bill!!! The main booster had two of the twelve motors fail partway through the burn which caused the early staging for two of the sustainers. The booster is toast and we're missing one of the "pheasant phins" otherwise she recovered well.

Day 4 here we come!

ECayemberg said:

Haven't seen the video yet but I can personally attest that no one was 100' away from the pseudo bruiser flight.

Chuck my friend you missed my point. I'm sorry you chose not to pm me as requested . Here's the big secret: for the uninformed bong is an abandoned runway that is consequently narrow and long. This dictates a somewhat unique layout where the pads go straight out from the flightline unlike the more common perpendicular layout. When you combine this layout, zoom cameras, and a viewpoint from the pits or spectator area, I promise hat you will have people appearing to be standing on the pads being launched from!

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Thanks you for for the explanation. I did not have room to PM. People keep filling my inbox.

I reread my original post. My intent was to agree that it looked dangerous but point out the illusion so hopefully someone would clarify and clear up in misperception. I have never been to Bong and probably never will. Perception is what will get us in trouble. It does not matter about the truth if ti appear dangerous to other in our hobby. If we are forced to discuss this behind closed PM, then it makes it more suspicious.

Max: Great video. Thanks for sharing it.

Guys: this is an optical illusion like Eric said. It is caused by the thin strip of land. If you look at the person beside the Bruiser, they would have to 7-8 feet tall and they are clearer that the rocket.

I can not comment on the big foot looking character in the woods to the left.

Nice videos. Thanks. Very impressive tight shots with rockets staying in frame and mostly in focus. Can you give us a rundown of your equipment and methods?

WoShuGui said:

Nice videos. Thanks. Very impressive tight shots with rockets staying in frame and mostly in focus. Can you give us a rundown of your equipment and methods?

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Max here. Thanks for the support. As for camera equipment, it's a Nikon Coolpix - a fixed lens point-and-shoot that can do full HD video, too. I wear sunglasses and a hat with a floppy brim, press the eyepiece to my face (to add inertia to the camera, which is pretty light) and pull the brim down over the top of the camera to block excess light coming to my eyes (since the digital display in the eyepiece is much less bright than the surrounding sunlight). I intuitively choose my starting framing based on the thrust of the motor, set the focus to infinity, and try my best. Practice helps, of course, but I'm no Earl Cagle by any means.

This Nikon is NOT the best camera for shooting rockets (the zoom is touchy, it doesn't meter very well for the sky, and the resolution in the eyepiece is low, which often causes me to pan off of rockets that can plainly be seen in frame on video playback), so I'll soon look for another one. If the videos on youtube look good, it's because I DIDN'T post most of the numerous videos where I lost the rockets immediately.

Eric-- here's video of your Hot Topic from Sunday morning - last thing I shot before I had to leave - great airstarts!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7nBWaR726M
Thanks for telling me this forum existed.

To others, yes, telephoto lenses compress depth. Photog 101. I walked the full length of the range Saturday night (if only to visit an away cell, something I had never done), and there's ample space between the banks of pads you see in the videos. LDRS 33 was very well-run.

Ah, this is the age we live in - where an internet connection qualifies you to speak to the actions of others.

Hey E - sorry I missed ya - you better be planning on Airfest!

S

Well, just looking at the layout on the website https://www.ldrs33.com/pages/LDRS_RangeLayout , it looks like the range was set up at minimum personnel distances to the LCO. So if, for instance, there were people setting up on the 'H,I,J' pads, or on the 'M' pads, while an 'L' or a research 'K' rocket was launching from the 'K,L' pads, they would certainly have been in violation of the minimum personnel distance (300' and 250'). Though it would have been ok for a commercial 'K' rocket (200'). If there was an 'M' rocket going on the 'M' pads, no one should be on any of the lesser pads, though people could be setting up on the 'N' pads.

RoyAtl said:

Well, just looking at the layout on the website https://www.ldrs33.com/pages/LDRS_RangeLayout , it looks like the range was set up at minimum personnel distances to the LCO. So if, for instance, there were people setting up on the 'H,I,J' pads, or on the 'M' pads, while an 'L' or a research 'K' rocket was launching from the 'K,L' pads, they would certainly have been in violation of the minimum personnel distance (300' and 250'). Though it would have been ok for a commercial 'K' rocket (200'). If there was an 'M' rocket going on the 'M' pads, no one should be on any of the lesser pads, though people could be setting up on the 'N' pads.

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ROY - WERE YOU THERE???

I was. All TRA safety distances were observed. This discussion should be OVER.

Max - thanks for posting your videos. LDRS 33 was a blast and a well organized and well run launch.

--Lance.

I started this thread to let other people know about the videos. I didn't mean to open a can of worms. I just want to watch rockets fly! And thanks Max!

hyperslug said:

I started this thread to let other people know about the videos. I didn't mean to open a can of worms. I just want to watch rockets fly! And thanks Max!

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And THANK YOU for doing so! :clap: (re: the vids not any perceived can of worms )

RoyAtl said:

Well, just looking at the layout on the website https://www.ldrs33.com/pages/LDRS_RangeLayout , it looks like the range was set up at minimum personnel distances to the LCO. So if, for instance, there were people setting up on the 'H,I,J' pads, or on the 'M' pads, while an 'L' or a research 'K' rocket was launching from the 'K,L' pads, they would certainly have been in violation of the minimum personnel distance (300' and 250'). Though it would have been ok for a commercial 'K' rocket (200'). If there was an 'M' rocket going on the 'M' pads, no one should be on any of the lesser pads, though people could be setting up on the 'N' pads.

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Lance is correct, safety and safe distances were followed. I believe Preston Nobile a while back in another thread mentioned that the range layout on the site was preliminary. In fact, the range layout was much different than shown (they implemented staggered right/left, not parallel/perpendicular banks) and extended the banks were farther back than shown in the picture, for instance the L distance was where M is shown on the linked picture while M was farther back.

Tim, you are correct, the picture from another post was not the final layout we used. In fact, I was the person who measured all the distances from each bank with a digital measuring wheel. All pad banks were measured to the safe distance for Research Launches.....once again all safety codes were followed!!!

Preston

dixontj93060 said:

Lance is correct, safety and safe distances were followed. I believe Preston Nobile a while back in another thread mentioned that the range layout on the site was preliminary. In fact, the range layout was much different than shown (they implemented staggered right/left, not parallel/perpendicular banks) and extended the banks were farther back than shown in the picture, for instance the L distance was where M is shown on the linked picture while M was farther back.

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MaxTohline said:

Max here. Thanks for the support. As for camera equipment, it's a Nikon Coolpix - a fixed lens point-and-shoot that can do full HD video, too. I wear sunglasses and a hat with a floppy brim, press the eyepiece to my face (to add inertia to the camera, which is pretty light) and pull the brim down over the top of the camera to block excess light coming to my eyes (since the digital display in the eyepiece is much less bright than the surrounding sunlight). I intuitively choose my starting framing based on the thrust of the motor, set the focus to infinity, and try my best. Practice helps, of course, but I'm no Earl Cagle by any means.

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Thanks. I am very impressed you were able to get such nice shots on a Nikon fixed lens. I use a Panasonic HDC-TM900K and can never keep a rocket in frame at that high of a zoom. You must have a very steady head and hands! My method is just to back off on the zoom and edit digitally later, but no way the results are as nice as yours. Welcome to the forum by the way.

This effect is called perspective distortion. Telephoto lenses make distances look much shorter than they really are. Here is a good example: https://www.photocrati.com/the-curious-case-of-lens-compression/. Another good example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_%28photography%29

Don't get defensive. I said, "just looking at the layout on the website..." I pointed out that if that were the layout they used, it would be problematic, unless they treated it like a rack and cleared everyone from the adjoining spaces. I hope the layout *was* different than what was depicted on the website.

I'm not saying anything was unsafe (back before the newer distances were proscribed, I attended launches where L motors were 150' away and I saw no problems). I don't recall how the NFPA committee came up with these distances, but we have to live with them.

llickteig1 said:

ROY - WERE YOU THERE???

I was. All TRA safety distances were observed. This discussion should be OVER.

Max - thanks for posting your videos. LDRS 33 was a blast and a well organized and well run launch.

--Lance.

Click to expand...

dixontj93060 said:

Lance is correct, safety and safe distances were followed. I believe Preston Nobile a while back in another thread mentioned that the range layout on the site was preliminary. In fact, the range layout was much different than shown (they implemented staggered right/left, not parallel/perpendicular banks) and extended the banks were farther back than shown in the picture, for instance the L distance was where M is shown on the linked picture while M was farther back.

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Thanks, I hope you can see why some questions could've been raised. That's good enough for me.

Good, so let's go back to the videos... Here's my Extreme Dark Star smoldering on the pad: https://youtu.be/nxXS6Yiks0Y. Recovery was easy, but my expectations for the condition of the aft end of the rocket were not too high. I was thinking everything from charred fins to melted retainer. In the end it wasn't too bad. Looking at the motor afterwards first you can see about half of the aft O-ring melted and migrated up into the liner. Second the retainer, although not damaged, was impregnated with slag and discolored. Surprisingly the rocket finish was almost unscathed. On one section there is slight bubbling of the paint at the very bottom of the airframe which is barely detectable. BTW, it is probably good it expended some propellant before taking off as it went to 8900 feet--might have broken the waiver otherwise.

WoShuGui said:

Thanks. I am very impressed you were able to get such nice shots on a Nikon fixed lens. I use a Panasonic HDC-TM900K and can never keep a rocket in frame at that high of a zoom. You must have a very steady head and hands! My method is just to back off on the zoom and edit digitally later, but no way the results are as nice as yours. Welcome to the forum by the way.

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Happy to be here!

Tim - I've updated the description on Youtube to say "Extreme Dark Star." Thanks for those postflight photos, too. Really cool. If anybody else has info on the rockets I video'd, please let me know.

And if you guys haven't seen it, don't miss Dan Crank's level 2 cert onboard video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7xM6JDb0wc

Does anyone know what exactly happened to the V2 on the M 3000?
https://youtu.be/_kFYdfJfrHM
To me it appears that the snap rings were not seated properly.


JD