L-1 cert ?

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I really want to try it with what I have (for now) the Argent has a good handful (7) perfect flights on the G40- We flew my buddies Leviathon on the G80 the last time out together and frankly the Argent would have been just fine on it as well, and it was a pretty breezy day and I walked my azz off, smiling though :D
I tend to overbuild a bit- and its very solid, I have no doubt it can handle the small H -
Now I guess the question becomes what case/brand AT or CTI -29/140 ?
I also have a MC Hawk23B/ 2 2.6Mozzies and a MC Bomark that all fly 29mm so I would benefit the most from this for now- but open to suggestions .
I really think if I dont get greedy and pick my day- the Argent will be just fine using some of the given advice.

Andy
 
If you want to use the Argent you already have CTI has an H54 with a 168ns and a 3 second burn. Its a really mild motor for an L1. I flew the 159ns G54 in my Estes Nike Smoke and it went about 2000'.
 
If you want to use the Argent you already have CTI has an H54 with a 168ns and a 3 second burn. Its a really mild motor for an L1. I flew the 159ns G54 in my Estes Nike Smoke and it went about 2000'.

I dont have a case yet- that was kinda my question, what case would you guys rec. -I have heard one is a little more user friendly than the other, and case cost vs reload cost ?
 
Cti is easier, cheaper cases and more expensive loads. All hazmat too

AT is fun to build, and cheaper loads. Also- no hazmat on 29/180, 240 or 360 reloads.
 
For E-G motors, you would be hard to beat an AT 29/40-120.
For L1 flights, You should look at the vendor at your launches. Some only sell one company or the other. CTI is simple to build, but reloads cost a little more. AT has lower reload prices, but slightly higher case prices (though they can be had here and on fleabay used).
The 29mm AT motors also have the advantage of being shippable without a HAZMAT fee if you are limited to mail order. The AT 29/180 flies the H128W, H165R and H238T motors. I flew my L1 on an H238T in an 4" Madcow Little John (the cardboard and ply version) to about 1500ft.

edit: looks like I type to slow....

edit2... doing a quick sim using the stock file available on the web, any of the AT 29/180 loads put an Argent just over 2100ft and around .5 mach. Sounds like it would be doable....
 
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I really want to try it with what I have (for now) the Argent has a good handful (7) perfect flights on the G40- We flew my buddies Leviathon on the G80 the last time out together and frankly the Argent would have been just fine on it as well, and it was a pretty breezy day and I walked my azz off, smiling though :D
I tend to overbuild a bit- and its very solid, I have no doubt it can handle the small H -
Now I guess the question becomes what case/brand AT or CTI -29/140 ?
I also have a MC Hawk23B/ 2 2.6Mozzies and a MC Bomark that all fly 29mm so I would benefit the most from this for now- but open to suggestions .
I really think if I dont get greedy and pick my day- the Argent will be just fine using some of the given advice.

Andy

If you have any of the Estes PSII rockets, you can use them for an L1 cert. I have a Leviathan that I routinely fly on H165R and H128W motors. Our field also has a 16,000 ft. waiver and plenty of room. I don't make those flights if the surface winds are much over 5mph because they go over 2500 ft.. You have to learn to fly your field. I'll repeat that again, but it's really important and one of the reasons to take any advice you get here with a grain of salt. The advice you get, although well meant, may not be the best for the conditions you will be flying in at your field.

One of the things you will learn as you start flying the full range of L1 motors is that they have a very large range of power. If you are used to MPR, where and F motor is 40 to 80 Ns and the G is 80 - 160 Ns, the H motors covers everything from A to G, on top of a G! I motors have power of twice that. It's one thing to read and understand the motor spec. information, but another to build and fly a rocket over those ranges of motors. In the L1 range, if your rocket does 1200 ft on a small H motor, it might top a mile on a large I motor. You won't get that type of variation in F to G motors. That is a very significant difference in performance and something that will become more obvious as you get more L1 experience.

My personal recommendation for a L1 rocket is something 3" to 4" diameter, a 38mm MMT, and 4 - 6 lbs without the motor. I think this gives you a good rocket for most conditions while flying the full range of H and I motors. You don't need to have that type of rocket to obtain your cert, but I recommend you consider building something in that range, even as a cert rocket. It would allow you to cert with a baby H at a low altitude, but still fly any H or I motor when the field conditions are right.

As for dual deployment, I recommend it for any rocket flying over 3,000 ft. but I'm an east coast flyer where corn, creek bottoms, hills, tree lines, and woods are always issues, so "fly your field". I scratch built my L1 cert rocket to use DD and used a long burn I motor for the cert flight. The next six flight with that rocket were I motors that got the rocket into the 3,500 to 4,200 ft range. But that was the goal I had for my L1 cert rocket. It met my goals.

Use the rocket for your cert that will meet the goals you have for getting you L1 cert.

Good Luck!
 
It all depends on what your budget is, how large your launch site is, and whether you want to do electronics now or in the future?

For my Level 1 I used a Loc 4 on an Aerotech H220. A good, basic rocket. I would suggest a smaller H than that- something like the AT or CTI motors previously mentioned. I would upon opening the bag ditch the elastic shock cord and replace it with .125" tubular Kevlar, and replace the recovery harness mount with a small u bolt in the forward centering ring.

Now, if you want something more durable, and that would support electronics without modification I would check out the Wildman Junior. I have not run the sim recently, but I think you could likely loose the upper body tube and coupler and fly it on an h motor. A bit more upfront, but if you plan on flying it for a long time it is likely a better option. Throw in the fact that if you have a bit of space you could probably do your L2 with this rocket as well.


Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
I tend to overbuild a bit- and its very solid, I have no doubt it can handle the small H -

I say go for it. Do you know what the penalty is for failing your cert flight? That's right, you have to fly a rocket. I know, terrible, huh? :madnote:
 
Grimracer has said that he built all of his ps II birds as per instructions and has flown one or more of them on I200s(he also said that they got up around 2600'). one thing that you will need to know, where the 'cp' is, I usually use a small adhesive sticker(roughly 3/16" circle) to mark the cp on my midpower and larger birds.
Rex
 
Grimracer has said that he built all of his ps II birds as per instructions and has flown one or more of them on I200s(he also said that they got up around 2600'). one thing that you will need to know, where the 'cp' is, I usually use a small adhesive sticker(roughly 3/16" circle) to mark the cp on my midpower and larger birds.
Rex

Grim is actually the one who gave me the kit , we both run RC Boats as well- lol .

So anyone have a used AT 29/140 they want to sell ?
 
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You can also buy a single use motor for your cert. the cost per launch is a little higher, but you don't have the case expense. Another option is that many club fliers (and a good number of clubs) have a case they will let you borrow with the understanding that if you break or lose it you replace it. I wouldn't do it if there is no money, but it could put off the expense for a bit.

Also, for the time being, CTI has certification special. Buy the motor get the case for free. Then with the purchase of spacers, you can have a good range of motors you can fly with little up front cost. And many people love the CTI motors.


Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum
 
Yes the certificate special . Great way to go and the spacer for 38mm there like 10 bucks a piece so for 20 more you can fly three case size
 
Thanks guys, been away from the puter today getting ready for knee surgery in the am - grrrr.
I appreciate the responses and a shove in the proper direction. See ya in a day or so- or as soon as I can hobble to the PC . LOL
 
Thanks guys, been away from the puter today getting ready for knee surgery in the am - grrrr.
I appreciate the responses and a shove in the proper direction. See ya in a day or so- or as soon as I can hobble to the PC . LOL
Good luck and we wish for a quick recovery!
 
Thanks guys, been away from the puter today getting ready for knee surgery in the am - grrrr.
I appreciate the responses and a shove in the proper direction. See ya in a day or so- or as soon as I can hobble to the PC . LOL

For some reason when I read this, my brain saw "knee surgery in the arm." I was like -- what?!

I hope it goes well and you recover quickly.
 
Suggestion on for a non DD- kit that wont break the bank- poss something that could later be upgraded to DD ? Low and slow is just fine by me btw- but open to suggestions.

Andy

I got my successful L-1 Cert. on the first try with a Madcow Aerobee 150A It's an awesome rocket and can be built for DD down the road. I like scale rockets. Whatever you choose. Good luck.

David
 
Thanks for the well wishes- all went well according to the Doc (like I remember anything after 10-9- zzzz) lol. The launch that never happened :tongue:
The wife was kind enough to keep me in reach of the puter , so at least I can surf . They hooked me up with one of those new air cooler deals- IT ROCKS .
home from surgery.JPG
 
Surprised no one has mentioned the Mega Der Red Max. Great Estes PSII rocket that is a little pricier than most, but is very stable and because of large fins and a 4" airframe, will not go out of sight on an H motor. Fly it with an H123 Skidmark and it will be impressive. Toughest challenge is the laminate fins. Use epoxy, not glue to bond the plies together so you don't risk warping.

A couple others in this price range that would be good L1 rockets are the Mad Cow Big Fizz, Cricket, or Little John. Also consider the Binder Design Excel, Thug, Dragonfly, or Bat. Good luck.
 
whichever rocket you chose, take and post pictures of your build, that way if someone asks about build details you can steer them to the pictures(plus we like pictures :)).
Rex
 
whichever rocket you chose, take and post pictures of your build, that way if someone asks about build details you can steer them to the pictures(plus we like pictures :)).
Rex

The wife reminded me of that last night- And frankly I cant remember how detailed I made the Argent build pics- but it DID get me thinking-
What a great excuse for a new kit IF :eyeroll: I cant find em
 
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