design software poll

Hey guys, here's another poll. This one is on which design software you use, if your program is in the "other" catagory I would love to hear what it is in the comments.

For rockets I exclusively use Openrocket.

For specific geometric design (motor assembly, fins) I use Solidworks. Only exception is for a rocket design I did for my club's presentation at a Corporate Affiliate meeting Link here

Openrocket

I will typically sketch up my design in Visio. Once I am happy I will then try Rocksim. Although most of mine are a bit difficult to sim so I skip that step.

I do a lot of sketching and figuring with good ole' pencil & paper first. Then I generally go to RockSim, but the "design" is usually pretty well worked out by that time. I use RockSim to tweak details, get exact dimensions/weights down, make adjustments for stability, and of course run actual flight sims. I've also been running sims using RASAero lately.

I sometimes use another method too - that is via a vector graphics software program. I use "XaraX", which is similar to Adobe Illustrator. I use this purely for aesthetics - things like fin shapes, color schemes, and whatnot. I also use this program to generate jpegs that will be used by RockSim's 3D visualizations.

I love RockSim - I honestly don't know how I'd "survive" in this hobby without it (or an alternative like OpenRocket). That said, I too (like les) often build rockets that have features that RockSim can't fully handle - such as canted motors, certain fin treatments, oddball staging, etc.

s6

Well, I use mostly Rocksim 9. If my rocket is something that will be supersonic and will fit into Rasaero, I then do it in Rasaero, get the Cd from Rasaero, and adjust the Cd in Rocksim.

I tried earlier versions of OpenRocket. I have not used it in about a year. If you know Rocksim, OR is pretty simple to pick up and use as the interface was very similar at that point.


Mark Koelsch
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Before OpenRocket came out, I'd do drawings in Canvas. Still use it for more complicated mechanical designs, and stuff like laying out rings and ebays that none of the rocketry programs are useful for. Could never bring myself to spend the $$$$$$$ on rocksim - there was a time when if it was maybe 1/3rd the price I would have purchased it, now I wouldn't. Always got sufficient sims with free simulators like WinRoc & RasAero - both of which can give you a quick answer without fancy drawings, unlike rocksim & openrocket. I still find RasAero to be the most accurate - I've heard some say its better than rocksim, particularly for Cd calcs & transonic flights. Now when I do rocket layout/design, I use OpenRocket - its a great program and free. Sims are with openrocket and RasAero. I also use the Cd calc in RasAero to help in flight motor characterization.

One thing I wonder about is if openrocket can be used for the simulations required as part of a class 3 waiver (P motor & larger), since it claims to do the required 6 DOF sims, like the 1 kilobuck RS PRo - can this remove one of the hurdles for such a waiver?

Openrocket here

Rhino for 3D, Illustator for 2D, RockSim for simulation.

Paper & pencil for drafting, OpenRocket for airframe design/sim, PTC Creo for 2d/3d component modeling. The latter I'm not entirely thrilled with, but I haven't yet found a free/libre program that lets me due true parametric modeling in relative coordinate space.

AndyC said:

Before OpenRocket came out, I'd do drawings in Canvas. Still use it for more complicated mechanical designs, and stuff like laying out rings and ebays that none of the rocketry programs are useful for. Could never bring myself to spend the $$$$$$$ on rocksim - there was a time when if it was maybe 1/3rd the price I would have purchased it, now I wouldn't. Always got sufficient sims with free simulators like WinRoc & RasAero - both of which can give you a quick answer without fancy drawings, unlike rocksim & openrocket. I still find RasAero to be the most accurate - I've heard some say its better than rocksim, particularly for Cd calcs & transonic flights. Now when I do rocket layout/design, I use OpenRocket - its a great program and free. Sims are with openrocket and RasAero. I also use the Cd calc in RasAero to help in flight motor characterization.

One thing I wonder about is if openrocket can be used for the simulations required as part of a class 3 waiver (P motor & larger), since it claims to do the required 6 DOF sims, like the 1 kilobuck RS PRo - can this remove one of the hurdles for such a waiver?

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I am not sure about the 6dof stuff in open rocket. It would likely need to be validated by AST/FAA before it would be accepted. Also, if you submit a rkt file to the Tripoli class 3 committee they will review it, and run the splash pattern form you. Also, remember that for each wind set you need to run 1000 iterations of it to get the required certainty.



Mark Koelsch
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markkoelsch said:

I am not sure about the 6dof stuff in open rocket. It would likely need to be validated by AST/FAA before it would be accepted. Also, if you submit a rkt file to the Tripoli class 3 committee they will review it, and run the splash pattern form you. Also, remember that for each wind set you need to run 1000 iterations of it to get the required certainty.

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What are they doing to run the Monte Carlo? Do they have a specific program/algorithm?

Jeff

VCP 1.64. It's really old but it does what I need. Besides, I know the guy who wrote it

blastr42 said:

What are they doing to run the Monte Carlo? Do they have a specific program/algorithm?

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Rocksim Pro

-Kevin

Yes, as Kevin said, the 6dof splash pattern is run in Rocksim Pro. There are specific uncertainties you enter, enter your wind information, set it to run a thousand iterations, and walk away from your computer for a while.

For a given flight and location you need the historic wind information up to, and slightly above your flight level. So this will be a wind speed, direction, and altitude. It should reasonably replicate the time of year you are flying. You might also want an am and pm as some spots tend to change during the day. You also want for each wind and time combination a set of splash patterns for optimal deployment and for ballistic/no deployment. So, likely at least 4 sets of sims each run to 1000 iterations.

You also need the location of the flight line, launch pad, spectator location, roads, and buildings. You will need to adjust your launch elevation and azimuth in the sim so as to avoid those, and run 1000 iterations again. So, to get this right, you might have to run different elevations and azimuths on the sims several times to avoid the aforementioned obstacles. Throw in different winds in am and pm. It can take a while.

Also, there are only a few sites in CONUS that can support a class three flight. Obviously Black Rock can, I believe Argonia can. I know Tripoli Quad Cities tried for MWP a few years ago ( I did the sims) and was denied due to building proximity.



Mark Koelsch
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markkoelsch said:

Also, there are only a few sites in CONUS that can support a class three flight. Obviously Black Rock can, I believe Argonia can. I know Tripoli Quad Cities tried for MWP a few years ago ( I did the sims) and was denied due to building proximity.

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Where they'll get approved is a function of the projected flight -- there are Class III flights that won't have a prayer of getting approved in Argonia, as their waiver is only 50K. However, I've had three Class III waivers approved for Argonia, because the highest projected altitude on any of them was under 15K. We build big, fat rockets.

-Kevin

Agreed Kevin. I was trying to point out that not many sites can support a Class 3 flight. The safe distances are larger than most sites can accommodate. The MWP site is pretty large, but was not approved due to building proximity. Really, it is based on the rocket and flight profile, but the site has to be taken into account in your planning as well. I stand by my statement that there are very few locations that will support via approval by FAA/AST. For instance, Wildman's Mega Darkstar on the CTI P8000 will do about 15-16 thousand feet agl. The site normally has something like a 16 thousand waiver. So, the rockets denial of waiver was more about the site than the altitude, and I think that would be the case in most locations.

In addition to Rocksim, I regularly use FinSim and when appropriate, The Laminator.

Open rocket and burn sim.



TA

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Open Rocket

For the little I did, Open Rocket.

Long time ago: AutoCAD

Past few years to current: Rhino

For sims: OpenRocket

Greg

I do ALL my designing using Grey Matter version 5.8.

Then I do a sketchup (my response in the poll) for my buddy who is a CAD whiz, and he puts it into proper proportions, based on the commercially available materials.

I use VCP for a general shape and getting the location of the CP. The CG is determined after it is built. I use Areolab for drag profiles which are plugged into WRasp32 for altitude simulations.

None of these do any type of CAD type assembly drawings, although VCP does let you add mass and dimensions to various parts, it only prints the overall outline of the rocket with dimensions and CP & CG.