ThrustCurve.org motor availability

JohnCoker · Jul 30, 2014

GregGleason said:
John, what about a column for propellant type instead of color? Is that possible?

Yeah, that would be possible, especially now that the propellant types have been mostly cleaned up. Where would it be most useful?

The reason I didn't add it to the browser before was that they were different across manufacturers, so selecting a type would narrow it down to a single manufacturer, which I suspect isn't actually what you would want. (The same problem exists for search.)

I'd like to understand the actual use cases before implementing it because I couldn't think of something that worked in a reasonable way when I built the search and browser features.

matthew · Jul 31, 2014

JohnCoker said:
I'd like to understand the actual use cases before implementing it

It's not always about the numbers.

I appreciate it would be more sensible to code a query by "manufacturer and propellant" rather just on propellant alone.

Just for example.

I've built a rocket, "The Love Missile". What pink loads are available?

I love sparky motors. What's available in 54mm?

Thanks for considering it.

CarVac · Jul 31, 2014

I think color would be fine rather than manufacturer specific propellant names. White, red, pink, blue, green, dark smoky, sparky, clear, and special.

Special would be Imax, which shifts color and has thick smoke. Unless you would put that with smoky motors.

chadrog · Jul 31, 2014

markkoelsch said:
That is ok. Believe me when I say that John and I would rather have you point out an error even if it proves to be false. There is a lot of information on the site, and believe me when I say we have missed motors or made typos- we are human.

Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

Here's one I noticed the other day. Probably wouldn't lead to any issues, but incorrect none the less. The Aerotech L1000 DMS is listed as 29mm, it is actually 54mm.

JohnCoker · Jul 31, 2014

chadrog said:
The Aerotech L1000 DMS is listed as 29mm, it is actually 54mm.

All the DMS motors got set to 29mm, so I fixed the ones that should be 38 and 54mm.

Thanks for the sharp eyes. I had to write a Ruby script to parse the AT order form spreadsheets, which aren't in a very consistent format so there may be more of these sorts of errors.

JohnCoker · Jul 31, 2014

CarVac said:
I think color would be fine rather than manufacturer specific propellant names. White, red, pink, blue, green, dark smoky, sparky, clear, and special.
Special would be Imax, which shifts color and has thick smoke. Unless you would put that with smoky motors.

Here are all the distinct propellant types we have in the DB. Note that "" means missing data. (I've also uploaded a CSV file for those interested.) It sounds like there are three possible things people are interested in:

propellant type: unique to manufacturer (Metalstorm, Skidmark)
color: standardized across manufacturer (red, green, blue)
effects: standardized across manufacturer (sparky, smoky)

I'm not against adding those capabilities if people really think they're useful, but we would need to setup and maintain the manufacturer-specific names to the generic attribute mapping.

AeroTech		12
AeroTech	Blackjack	12
AeroTech	Blue Thunder	47
AeroTech	Dark Matter	10
AeroTech	Fast Blackjack	16
AeroTech	Metalstorm	6
AeroTech	Mojave Green	12
AeroTech	Propellant X	1
AeroTech	Redline	32
AeroTech	Warp-9	13
AeroTech	White Lightning	83
Animal Motor Works		2
Animal Motor Works	Black Bear	6
Animal Motor Works	Blue Baboon	16
Animal Motor Works	Green Gorilla	10
Animal Motor Works	Red Rhino	12
Animal Motor Works	Scalded Tiger	2
Animal Motor Works	Skidmark	17
Animal Motor Works	Super Tiger	5
Animal Motor Works	Tamed Tiger	5
Animal Motor Works	White Wolf	11
Animal Motor Works	Wild Wolf	3
Apogee Components		10
Apogee Components	composite	2
Cesaroni Technology		10
Cesaroni Technology	Blue Streak	33
Cesaroni Technology	C-Star	3
Cesaroni Technology	C-Star (FAST)	1
Cesaroni Technology	C-Star (SLOW)	3
Cesaroni Technology	Classic	40
Cesaroni Technology	Green3	11
Cesaroni Technology	Imax	15
Cesaroni Technology	Mellow	8
Cesaroni Technology	Pink	5
Cesaroni Technology	Red Lightning	26
Cesaroni Technology	Skidmark	30
Cesaroni Technology	Smoky Sam	23
Cesaroni Technology	Vmax	22
Cesaroni Technology	White	35
Cesaroni Technology	White Thunder	30
Contrail Rockets		67
Estes Industries	black powder	16
Estes Industries	composite	6
Gorilla Rocket Motors	Back Lightning	1
Gorilla Rocket Motors	Black Lightning	13
Gorilla Rocket Motors	Blue Typhoon	3
Gorilla Rocket Motors	Green Tornado	7
Gorilla Rocket Motors	Red Twister	8
Gorilla Rocket Motors	White Cloud	22
Hypertek		42
Kosdon by AeroTech		13
Kosdon by AeroTech	Kosdon Fast	2
Kosdon by AeroTech	Mojave Green	2
Kosdon by AeroTech	Redline	6
Kosdon by AeroTech	White Lightning	5
Loki Research	Loki Blue	5
Loki Research	Loki Red	5
Loki Research	Loki White	18
Loki Research	Spitfire	10
Quest Aerospace	black powder	11
R.A.T.T. Works		7
R.A.T.T. Works	Tribrid: ABS/Alcohol/Nitrous	2
Southern Cross Rocketry	black powder	3

View attachment propellant.zip

GregGleason · Jul 31, 2014

JohnCoker said:
Yeah, that would be possible, especially now that the propellant types have been mostly cleaned up. Where would it be most useful?

The reason I didn't add it to the browser before was that they were different across manufacturers, so selecting a type would narrow it down to a single manufacturer, which I suspect isn't actually what you would want. (The same problem exists for search.)

I'd like to understand the actual use cases before implementing it because I couldn't think of something that worked in a reasonable way when I built the search and browser features.

How about this scenario: You are looking at what motors to buy at an upcoming launch that has a burn ban where you can fly, but just not fly sparky motors. You could cull those motors that you wanted to avoid and come up with a list to bring to your vendor.

Another one: You are looking for a cluster where motors share a particular propellant type. Having options to pick from would help that process.

Thanks for considering it.

Greg

JohnCoker · Aug 4, 2014

GregGleason said:
John, what about a column for propellant type instead of color? Is that possible?

Do you mean another column in the search results?

GregGleason · Aug 4, 2014

JohnCoker said:
Do you mean another column in the search results?

Exactly this.

Greg

JohnCoker · Aug 4, 2014

GregGleason said:
Exactly this.

Done.

GregGleason · Aug 4, 2014

Nicely done!

Greg

kzimmerman · Aug 4, 2014

I think that you may have missed an estes motor, the a10-0t. I tried doing the file myself using thrust curve tracer, but it has produced a .eng file, need to work it out to a rasp to use with rocksim. Or am I missing something? Quite possible, I'm kinda a noob at the whole rocketry software thing.

JohnCoker · Aug 4, 2014

kzimmerman said:
I think that you may have missed an estes motor, the a10-0t.

Is that not this one?

kzimmerman said:
I tried doing the file myself using thrust curve tracer, but it has produced a .eng file, need to work it out to a rasp to use with rocksim.

The "eng" suffix is for RASP format files. RockSim will read both RASP (*.eng) and RockSim (*.rse) formats, but RASP is more universal.

H_Rocket · Aug 4, 2014

I like the search results in the latest iteration, however I would like to see if there is a way to display the required hardware. Perhaps in lieu of the certification organization (which I find of dubious value as most everything certified is across all organizations by the reciprocity agreements)?

JohnCoker · Aug 5, 2014

H_Rocket said:
I like the search results in the latest iteration, however I would like to see if there is a way to display the required hardware. Perhaps in lieu of the certification organization?

Another easy change: try now.

dixontj93060 · Aug 5, 2014

JohnCoker said:
Another easy change: try now.

Now that is VERY helpful! Thanks again for all your hard work!

H_Rocket · Aug 5, 2014

dixontj93060 said:
Now that is VERY helpful! Thanks again for all your hard work!

Like what he said!

oint:

:clap:

Want a job in Healthcare IT?

matthew · Aug 6, 2014

John, both of those changes are fantastic. Thanks!

JohnCoker · Aug 9, 2014

CarVac said:
I would rather have better coverage for burn time. So many are listed as unknown... couldn't that be automatically extracted from the files?

I have update the data for the Quest Micro Maxx motor (the only one with regular availability that didn't have a burn time). Also I marked the Micro Maxx II as OOP since I don't see it for sale on the Quest site and the NAR certification page has a broken link for it.

CarVac said:
Also, it would be nice to have increased time resolution in the browser so we could select those with <0.5 second burns.

Done; the motor browser now has categories for ½s (0 − 0.59) and ¾s (0.6 − 0.95).

UhClem · Aug 10, 2014

JohnCoker said:
I have update the data for the Quest Micro Maxx motor (the only one with regular availability that didn't have a burn time). Also I marked the Micro Maxx II as OOP since I don't see it for sale on the Quest site and the NAR certification page has a broken link for it.

The Micro Maxx II replaced the original Micro Maxx. You might notice that while the NAR lists the Micro Maxx as being certified for general use, the Micro Maxx II is contest certified which means that it is available.

As for that broken link, the Wayback Machine sees all: https://web.archive.org/web/20130921221939/https://nar.org/SandT/pdf/Quest/MicroMaxxII.pdf

billspad · Aug 10, 2014

UhClem said:
The Micro Maxx II replaced the original Micro Maxx. You might notice that while the NAR lists the Micro Maxx as being certified for general use, the Micro Maxx II is contest certified which means that it is available.

As for that broken link, the Wayback Machine sees all: https://web.archive.org/web/20130921221939/https://nar.org/SandT/pdf/Quest/MicroMaxxII.pdf

If you know of any other broken links, please let me know. The NAR website is undergoing a makeover and is supposed to debut on Monday. It's supposed to be easier for the S &T web guy to find the missing files (it's there somewhere) and fix the links.

JohnCoker · Aug 11, 2014

UhClem said:
The Micro Maxx II replaced the original Micro Maxx. You might notice that while the NAR lists the Micro Maxx as being certified for general use, the Micro Maxx II is contest certified which means that it is available.

Thanks; I updated the Micro Maxx II entry from that data sheet and marked the other one as OOP.

billspad said:
If you know of any other broken links, please let me know. The NAR website is undergoing a makeover and is supposed to debut on Monday. It's supposed to be easier for the S &T web guy to find the missing files (it's there somewhere) and fix the links.

I look forward to that. Hopefully it will be easier to see recent changes in the certification list and obsolete motors will be removed.

billspad · Aug 11, 2014

JohnCoker said:
I look forward to that. Hopefully it will be easier to see recent changes in the certification list and obsolete motors will be removed.

There's a Constant Contact mailing list that gets all the new NAR certifications and announcements. Are you on that list? We don't send out notices on the TRA and CAR stuff so I'm not sure how you'd get their information other than look at the list. I do keep a running list of all the changes so, if you're in doubt about something, just email me and I can look it up.

JohnCoker · Aug 11, 2014

billspad said:
There's a Constant Contact mailing list that gets all the new NAR certifications and announcements.

How does one sign up?

billspad · Aug 12, 2014

JohnCoker said:
How does one sign up?

Excellent question. There used to be a way to do it from the NAR website in the members area but I don't see it now. I'll find out.

markkoelsch · Aug 12, 2014

Bill, I should also be on that list.

billspad · Aug 12, 2014

markkoelsch said:
Bill, I should also be on that list.

Okay, I figured out how to add names. Send me the email addresses you want the notices sent to and I'll take care of it.

agrippo · Aug 14, 2014

Mark,

Do you still maintain and post comprehensive Rocksim files that contain each manufacturer's motors like you did on Rocketry Planet? With all the new motors out I'm starting to find that my database is missing a bunch of them.

Thanks,

Andrew

markkoelsch · Aug 15, 2014

Andrew, yes I do.

Website is www.rocketryfiles.com

Username and password are both guest.

Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

markkoelsch · Aug 15, 2014

billspad said:
Okay, I figured out how to add names. Send me the email addresses you want the notices sent to and I'll take care of it.

Bill, I tried to send you a pm with my email, but your pm box is full.

Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

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