L1 Build, 3 fins, 4'' OD, 38mm, Bluetube, 3D Rocketry - Hi from the UK

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Pyropetepete

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Saw the finset 1 from Bill and wanted to use them to make my L1 kit. Something sporty but cool looking. I had Bill cut me a set for 4'' to 38mm and send to Dave @ ARR. Bill's original topic https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?65350-3D-ROCKETRY-gt-Fin-Sets-lt

I've become a fan of Blue Tube 2.0 and Dave at ARR. He listens, does what you want, how you want and is mega helpful. So that's what was used to build.

Bill had a small render of the fins as a rocket which I wanted too use....



I wanted a bit of a tail cone, asking around here I was advised of a PML tail cone. 4'' to 75mm is what I've used here.

All the parts have arrived from Dave, I ordered some extra items as well. Sadly HRMS hit me £75 on customs. This was an expensive order. Time for a parts layout



4'' x 36'' Slotted main
4'' x 12'' Payload bay
4 x 8'' Coupler
4 x 8'' AV bay
19'' 38mm MMT
4'' PML Nose cone
4'' - 3'' Tail cone
3x 4'' to 38mm CR's
Bulkheads
38mm Aeropack
38mm - 29mm Aeropack adapter
Nomex heat blanket
1010 Rail buttons
Swivel
2x 6mm Delta link
6mm Quick link
6mm Ubolt

Lets check them fins from Bill



Quick file to tidy the slots up and square the ends off, this was the before shot



Time for a cheeky dry fit, 66'' in length



Close up of payloadbay



Fins and tail cone



This is why i went with a 4'' to 3'' tail cone. Allows enough space to do the 38mm Aeropack but it looks better







I've an Av Bay to hand as thinking of using this so I can have options of dual deployment. I ordered both option to cover my self. I can fly the rocket as a single with no issues.

Need too sort out my shockchord and thinking Ted AKA Onebadhack as this dude rocks and I ow it too him. Cute as well.

The fin can will get foamed as well, make it last.

Thanks Pete
 
Last edited:
Been thinking about the fins, bevel, round or leave. Due to the nature of there shape I've decided too leave them as is. They look pretty good as they are.

Need too workout how I'm too mount the shock chord. Thinking epoxy it along the MMT about 8" long.

CR's am also thinking possibly only the 2, I need to test the layout fully too be sure. I'm foaming the can anyway.

Leaning more too using the Av Bay, 4 plastic rivets 6mm in size to hole the 12" section to the coupler. The NC can use shear pins then for dual deploy going forward with bigger reloads.


Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum
 
Wow. For an L1 bird, it is definitely a little bit over built. But with a 38mm mount, assuming you have space, you can shove a J into this bad boy and go grab your L2 as well. Like the look and am impressed with doing a scratch build for L1.
 
Wow - very ambitious for an L1 bird, I'm impressed. Love the fins!

Looks like you have really thought this out and are well on your way to an awesome rocket. My only two concerns are (1) Weight - blue tube tends be be a bit on the heavy side. Have you weighed all the parts to make sure you have an L1 motor capable of a safe thrust to weight ratio? And (2) the 38mm MMT might end up limiting you. From experience, I did a scratch build with blue tube and still kick myself that I only used a 38mm MMT. The largest 38mm 6XL motor barely gets it to 2,000'. I would love to stuff a 54mm "K" in it, but sadly *sniff* I can't......

Good luck on the build, I'll be watching this one!
 
CZ Brat said:
Wow. For an L1 bird, it is definitely a little bit over built. But with a 38mm mount, assuming you have space, you can shove a J into this bad boy and go grab your L2 as well. Like the look and am impressed with doing a scratch build for L1.
Click to expand...

Nah not that over built. Could be but keeping it simple. Have the option to L2 with a J :)

dixontj93060 said:
Great looking! I like the sourcing combo.
Click to expand...

Thanks dude. Not seen anyone so it for a L1 before.

neond7 said:
Wow - very ambitious for an L1 bird, I'm impressed. Love the fins!

Looks like you have really thought this out and are well on your way to an awesome rocket. My only two concerns are (1) Weight - blue tube tends be be a bit on the heavy side. Have you weighed all the parts to make sure you have an L1 motor capable of a safe thrust to weight ratio? And (2) the 38mm MMT might end up limiting you. From experience, I did a scratch build with blue tube and still kick myself that I only used a 38mm MMT. The largest 38mm 6XL motor barely gets it to 2,000'. I would love to stuff a 54mm "K" in it, but sadly *sniff* I can't......

Good luck on the build, I'll be watching this one!
Click to expand...

1 - nothing has been weighed but it will when I'm back home. Currently in London with work. I'm sure it'll be okay.

1 - I've only a 3000 ft waver at my club due to a local airport. Sorry 2 and mod flight paths. Plus cost for 54mm flights ain't cheap. 38mm makes it sporty and cost effective.

Anyone want to make me a open rocket file and sym it all???



Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
yes get job ,im a beliver in scratch building your cert rockets . Its not for everyone did both L 1 & L 2 scratch .planning my L 3 scratch build but this time from parts . But still a way off
 
Pyropetepete said:
Nah not that over built. Could be but keeping it simple. Have the option to L2 with a J :)



Thanks dude. Not seen anyone so it for a L1 before.



1 - nothing has been weighed but it will when I'm back home. Currently in London with work. I'm sure it'll be okay.

1 - I've only a 3000 ft waver at my club due to a local airport. Sorry 2 and mod flight paths. Plus cost for 54mm flights ain't cheap. 38mm makes it sporty and cost effective.

Anyone want to make me a open rocket file and sym it all???



Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
Click to expand...

I can. What I will need is a complete parts list, including weight, dimensions, and distances relative to other components (ex. where the CRs go and where the tabs are relative to the root trailing edge). Fin dimensions especially important.
 
CZ Brat said:
I can. What I will need is a complete parts list, including weight, dimensions, and distances relative to other components (ex. where the CRs go and where the tabs are relative to the root trailing edge). Fin dimensions especially important.
Click to expand...

Soon as I'm home ill sort this out. Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
Pyropetepete said:
Saw the finset 1 from Bill and wanted to use them to make my L1 kit. Something sporty but cool looking. I had Bill cut me a set for 4'' to 38mm and send to Dave @ ARR. Bill's original topic https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?65350-3D-ROCKETRY-gt-Fin-Sets-lt

I've become a fan of Blue Tube 2.0 and Dave at ARR. He listens, does what you want, how you want and is mega helpful. So that's what was used to build.

Bill had a small render of the fins as a rocket which I wanted too use....

I wanted a bit of a tail cone, asking around here I was advised of a PML tail cone. 4'' to 75mm is what I've used here.

All the parts have arrived from Dave, I ordered some extra items as well. Sadly HRMS hit me £75 on customs. This was an expensive order. Time for a parts layout

4'' x 36'' Slotted main
4'' x 12'' Payload bay
4 x 8'' Coupler
4 x 8'' AV bay
19'' 38mm MMT
4'' PML Nose cone
4'' - 3'' Tail cone
3x 4'' to 38mm CR's
Bulkheads
38mm Aeropack
38mm - 29mm Aeropack adapter
Nomex heat blanket
1010 Rail buttons
Swivel
2x 6mm Delta link
6mm Quick link
6mm Ubolt

Lets check them fins from Bill

I've an Av Bay to hand as thinking of using this so I can have options of dual deployment. I ordered both option to cover my self. I can fly the rocket as a single with no issues.

Need too sort out my shockchord and thinking Ted AKA Onebadhack as this dude rocks and I ow it too him. Cute as well.

The fin can will get foamed as well, make it last.

Thanks Pete
Click to expand...

Slick looking rocket. The tail cone really sets it off.
 
CZ Brat said:
I can. What I will need is a complete parts list, including weight, dimensions, and distances relative to other components (ex. where the CRs go and where the tabs are relative to the root trailing edge). Fin dimensions especially important.
Click to expand...

Weights...........

Fins (x3) - 189
Nose Cone - 320g
Coupler - 120g
4'' x 12'' Body Tube (payload bay) - 170g
4'' x 36'' Body tube (main body, slotted X3 9'' long) - 505g
38mm MMT (19'' long) - 114g
4'' too 3'' Tail Cone - 78g
Centering Rings (4'' too 38mm, X3) - 79g
Coupler Bulkplate - 30g
Aeropack 38mm - 19g

1624 g / 1.624 Kg / 3.580 Lbs

No recovery listed, paint, glues.

Layout.........

1st CR - 1/2'' from forward end
2nd CR - 7.75'' from forward end
3rd CR - 17.25'' from forward end

Material is vulcanized fiber
PML Nose cone
PML Tail Cone
1/4" Ply rings

Bill posted the fin info. Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
aBit of an update, did this in and outside whilst watching Glastonbury Festival on the TV

I was able to fit a 6mm Ubolt on the top center ring. I had asked here and was advised it would be okay.





6mm Quick link on a 1'' wide, 30 feet Kevlar recovery chord from OneBadHawk



Test inside, tight but room to access. 19'' down to reach



60 Grit sand of the motor tube, I then wipe clean with lint free cloth and IPA



1st ring with Ubolt glued on, have used thin CA to tack the ring both sides around the full length





2nd middle ring fitted using same process, also sanded using 60 grit the area for fin attachment. I will be foaming this so the idea is it grips the whole section



5 min epoxy fillets on the rings now. The middle ring I only did the top as the bottom will be foamed







Coupler and payload bay sanded, 4'' is half the length of coupler, also sanded 4'' inside payload bay





Using 3 6mm plastic rivets to hold the nose cone. I made all the markings then taped the nose cone so it stayed put. Drilled and fitted one then the rest. I then made a dimple mark to get it lined up properly. I might use my countersink to make this better.





Payload bay glued with 5 min epoxy, I twisted this in to spread the epoxy



Payload bay nearly done, need to fit the bulkplate



Need to get a stick to get the epoxy in the main tube 17'' down. Will drill a hole for the 2nd ring and inject epoxy to make a filet. 3rd will be glued after the can is foamed.

Awaiting some stainless bolts and washers to finish the bulkhead for the payload bay. Then that's all done ready to fill, seal. I will fill and seal the main before fitting the fins, this make it a lot easier to work with.

Rail buttons, 1st on the 1st CR 17'' from the base, 2nd 1'' from the base on the 3rd CR?
 
Last edited:
Small update

Masking tape to hold Aeropack in place. 38mm 6G case is fitted with the nozzle from one a club memebers L1 flight. This so I get it lined up perfectly.



Using a fin for a flat surface with the tail cone now in place.



Aeropack is inside that lot with tail cone and now the 3rd centering ring.



Motor mount slid inside the body tube and pushed down to the tail cone. Everything lining up from bottom up.



How to remove that 3rd ring, use the fin edge of course!!!





Now to mount that motor mount fully. I measure where the 1st and 2nd CR's are and drilled a 6mm hole just above them. Using some thin CA i squirted some in to tack the MMT in place. Once set I can then inject 15 min epoxy and rotate the tube to make a fillet.







Using my fin jig I tacked the fins to the motor tube with thick CA. I'm foaming the can so this will be okay.



Light at the end of the tube :)



The fins where thinner than the slots slightly. I glued the fin right over to one edge so needed to seal the gap. I've a product at work that's like a super glue that is a thick gel and once the activator spray is used sets hard and fills the gap. I've only done this surface level to fill the gap and seal so when i epoxy fillet they do not run inside and 2nd is if I foam the can before it doesn't leak out!

Recently our cub took part in show. I brought this build along so people could see how a rocket is built and to show my fellow club friends. Looks cool on my stand! Saw horse, aramflex, plumbing tubing works sweet!



I'm off on a much needed holiday now for 7 days so till then, have fun

PPP :wink:
 
Day after I'm back from holiday I've the urge to get building

So I watched the video JC posted https://www.jcrocket.com/foam-fincan.shtml I kinda deviated from his way and did a section at a time. I also did a test sample 1st to see what the foam did. Each section took 3 goes each, idea being to keep it clean and fill the right amount. This is the product I used https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261404505795?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649



Plenty of masking tape and news paper to keep it covered just incase



Need something to hold the rocket upright as was a little windy out, happen to have a 2'' shell rack from work



All done, I've a 3rd CR going here so the looks foam wise doesn't matter that much in this case



The glue I used to seal the gaps down the fin sides worked, no leaks!!!



I test fitted the 3RD CR and the masking tape broke off. I had to use a thin screwdriver to pries it out hence the BT being damaged. Once out I then used the tail cones shoulder to push it back in and then thin CA to glue it in place. I'll sand and filler the damage back good as new.

Time to JB Weld the Aeropack, I masked off the bottom for any JB run off and also the inside



Nice neat band left



38MM 6G case with 2 spacers and a used 38mm closer from fellow club members L1 flight to add some weight to the Aeropack to keep in place. Also 2 lots of masking tape. Over kill but my kids might knock it or the dog and the missies might move it as well.



So now I've to wait 24 hours before I can do anything. Need to chase the M6 stainless washers and nuts to finish the payload section off.

TTFN

 
Very cool design! I like the tailcone.

neond7 said:
And (2) the 38mm MMT might end up limiting you. From experience, I did a scratch build with blue tube and still kick myself that I only used a 38mm MMT. The largest 38mm 6XL motor barely gets it to 2,000'. I would love to stuff a 54mm "K" in it, but sadly *sniff* I can't......
Click to expand...

Naw. I did a 4" bluetube this size for my L2. Came out to about 6 pounds and got 2,000 on an I245G, 3300 on a J500G, and almost 5K on a J510W. Plenty of motors to play with in 38mm.
 
DizWolf said:
Very cool design! I like the tailcone.

Naw. I did a 4" bluetube this size for my L2. Came out to about 6 pounds and got 2,000 on an I245G, 3300 on a J500G, and almost 5K on a J510W. Plenty of motors to play with in 38mm.
Click to expand...

Thanks dude. Aye there are plenty of 38mm options.

What epoxy for the tail cone, 5 min or 15 min?

Thinking of thinning some epoxy down and painting the CR once tail cone is on to help protect it a little. The inside of the tail cone should be okay as the motor mount is flush.
 
I would think either would be fine since the Tail cone isn't a structural component. I would just use 5 minute.
 
Got that itch to crack on

So 1st is to try and amend the damge I caused when pulling the CR out. 60 grit sand paper to take it down. I will then use body filler when doing the spirals and other imperfections latter

Before



After



Again 60 Grit to rough up the tail cone. I did this to all sides that are getting glued



Masked the bottom edge off so now epoxy runs on the tube or fins. Again this was a tip off the forum



5 min epoxy used, I put a nice thick band around the exposed BT, a little band on the CR and twisted the tail cone on. I pulled the masking tape I'd stuck around the edges and a quick wipe with IPA to make it clean. Masking tape used to keep it in place.



15 min epoxy and some IPA, not sure if this is going to work as it's been 13 hours, 15 mins and 12 seconds and it's still a very very stiff gel of sorts. Looks more than what it is there as well but this was to seal the bottom a little. Hoping the 27*C temp today helps it go off. I didn't add much IPA but the epoxy was mega runny

 
rocketgeek101 said:
Any updates?
Click to expand...

I do, sorry. Combination of work, new job role, DIY around the home and recent family loss has taken my time. This is a small update, sorry about that

Bolts and washers arrived at last, bit of thread lock and bulkhead is done



60 grit and rough up the inside of the payload body tube



I used thin CA to tack the bulkhead in place, I ran a ring of thin CA around inside and out



Fin fillet time, 30 min epoxy and talcum powder







Not shown but the bulkhead has been epoxied in place. All 3 fins have been filleted. Payload bay has been drilled for vents and switch.

I just need to fit rail buttons (still trying to work out the best spacing), fill all the groves, sand the fillets and seal the body tubes. Will try to do most of it this week.

The good new is the 15 min epoxy and IPA mix I pored in the tail cone has set. It took 4 days but is now solid. Learnt some lessons there!
 
After a day of non stop DIY, my backing giving it allowed for some rocket building :)

Here are the holes for the switch and air sample holes





This is the filler I'm trying. I live a good 4 hours away from where this is made which is where I happened to grown up as a kid. This stuff smells amazing



Good layer applied, masking tape to keep coupler clean



Sanded, had to use 120 but well worth it. Open the tubes surface for the next step...sealing the tube



My launch pad has many uses. Bit of cable conduit and I've a paint stand. This to apply the sanding sealer to the body tube. Masking tape applied to keep ends and holes clean



No not Chicken Tikka sauce but cellious sanding sealer in there



Good thick coat worked into the tube, sucks it up pretty quick



Left it to dry in the wind, pretty quick as only took 20 mins. Will let it set fully overnight then sand



Wanting to get the rail button placement sorted then will fill, sand the booster and seal her as well.

Thinking of using some foil tap within the inside of the tail cone to protect it.

Have also picked a colour. Metallic Purple. Also a name to match and a good band, Deep Purple
 
DizWolf said:
Very cool design! I like the tailcone.



Naw. I did a 4" bluetube this size for my L2. Came out to about 6 pounds and got 2,000 on an I245G, 3300 on a J500G, and almost 5K on a J510W. Plenty of motors to play with in 38mm.
Click to expand...

Until you want to kick it to 10K on a large K or small L. You know that sooner or later you will want to do that. No matter how big of MMT you put in, at some time you'll wish it was bigger! :grin:

I built my L2 with a 54mm and now I'm doing one with a 75mm just so it will go higher.
 
I feel like the hulk after this little bit of work. The sun was out and my back to it I've burned my neck. Today I filled all the spirals, went over the fillets, shaped them, sealed the tube.

Before any filler...umm naked.



Good old launch pad as my work stand and the 1st lot of filler is on.



Plastered and all covered. This is the spirals only. I filled the spirals then did a drag over the top. Look worse than it will be :)



Erm yeah she was asleep and didn't see this thankfully. This was about an hours worth of sanding. 1st with 60 then with 120.



Cleaned off with some IPA and a brush, ready to seal.



Bit of shaping on the fillet.



Never had fillets like this before, kinda impressed my self and learned a little (well a lot in truth).



Sanding sealer has gone but it's late.

Also have found a decent body shop who is going to spray it for me.

Recently see a cool way to track the deployment phase / recovery of a rocket and have thought about it before. Having seen how someone else has done has now allowed me to have a go my self. Awaiting the delivery of some toys..... wait and see be latter this week

Pete

 
Got my L1 today with her....

Got my L1 today



[video=youtube_share;xk7_vgJAPtI]https://youtu.be/xk7_vgJAPtI[/video]
 
Congrats and welcome to HPR. That tracking smoke was impressive.
 

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