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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobH48 View Post
    I definitely see something wrong with the build... There is only ONE motor mount.
    Yea, that bothers me too.

    Building this to have a relatively big low power flyer.
    To fly at LP launches, night launches and have fun at moderate cost.

    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  2. #92
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    Pics show electronics:
    > Featherweight 38mm AV bay, tiny Lipo battery and Raven. (1.1oz)
    > Video 808 #16 (0.65oz) and tracker (0.75oz)

    Cut base off LOC 38mm NC. Very thick strong plastic.
    > Drilled 4 counter sunk screw holes to secure internal structure
    > Drilled an over sized hole, filled with slow epoxy, then drilled for shear pin.

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    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  3. #93
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    Built up an internal structure for NC:
    > 38mm centering ring topped with 3/4in wood cut and sanded to snugly fit NC. This is what the screws attach to.
    > Above that 1/8in sheet + 1/4in square basswood built up to hold tracker in NC and form mount for video camera.
    > 10ft of 1/8in Kevlar anchors to this.

    Having tracker in NC keeps weight forward and keeps tracker out of CF tube for clear signal.
    Antenna extends through base of NC.

    Stock LOC NC is 3.2oz
    NC with tracker and video camera is 5.0oz.

    The video camera is as recessed as it can be into the NC and still "see" the ground.
    Taped in place as pictured, it should be secure for 1 and 2 grain (G to H) flights.

    When I have a chance to fly at a larger field and go with bigger motors, I may fiberglass camera to NC.
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    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  4. #94
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    18th January 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta22 View Post
    Epoxied in an internally threaded 1 inch aluminum rod for motor retention.

    Diameter??

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by billspad View Post
    Diameter??
    Picked it up at Sears hardware.
    1in long x 5/16 external diameter aluminum with 10 24 internal threads.

    Works great for clusters too - each post can retain 4 motors - don't ask me how I know.

    They had many other sizes too.
    Good rocket stuff...
    Last edited by delta22; 7th November 2014 at 07:06 AM.
    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  6. #96
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    11/8/14 - CMASS launch - Amesbury, MA

    Upper 40's, mostly sunny with moderate winds. A nice New England Fall day.

    My son Paul's TARC team, Fairhaven High School, completed a number of flights today continuing to dial in their rockets.
    They had some adjusting to do due to the effect of colder weather on their rocket engine's burn time.
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    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  7. #97
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    My first flight of the day was the VooDoo Daddy.
    Went up on 4x D12-5 + 4x D11-P.

    The 8 motor BP cluster makes a quiet hiss as it lifts off on a column of smoke.
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    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  8. #98
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    Next up was the Carbon Weasel on a G115, Pro-X 38mm 1gr White Thunder.
    Liftoff weight 1.5 lbs, minimum diameter 38mm rocket.
    The hard hitting G kicked the rocket upwards at an average of 17 Gs for the quick 1.2 sec burn.

    Hit 428 mph and 2817 ft.
    Fastest and highest I have flown at Amesbury so far.

    Separated as planned at apogee, but also deployed main.
    Thanks to Jason N. for use of tracker to successfully recover rocket.
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    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  9. #99
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    The Turbine Rocket Saucer went up on 6x D11-P engines.

    Can see the sparks the engines emit most near the end of burn in the third pic.
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    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  10. #100
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    Finally the Thunderbird went up for a nice long burn on its stardard cluster:

    1x F30-6 (Pro-X 24mm) + 6x Estes E9-6 + 4x D11-P in the outboards.

    Flew slowly to 770 ft, and deployed cleanly.

    All motors fired in today's clusters.
    Used my Cluster box and Rocketflite ML or CF igniters for ignitions and (CF) for ejection charges.

    In the first pic can see the igniters still firing as the motors are coming up to pressure.
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    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  11. #101
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    Howard G. sent up his very nice 3 inch minimum diameter carbon fiber Phoenix late in the day.

    Lifted off against the sunset for a perfect flight to 3400 ft, recovering right near pad B.

    Engine was a Pro-X J430 White Thunder, 54mm 2grain.
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    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  12. #102
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    Last edited by delta22; 29th December 2014 at 03:19 AM.
    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  13. #103
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    23rd July 2014
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    I think it's funny that you fly all these rockets with clusters, but the one that flies on a single motor lands off the field. As usual great flights.
    NAR# 98194
    Level 1: CTI I-216, 3,043'
    Level 2: CTI K-740, 5,999'

    Personal altitude record: 12,400' CTI L395
    2014 total impulse: 9,018.2 Ns (76% M)
    2015 total impulse: 7,171.7 Ns (40% M)
    2016 total impulse: 18,664.2 Ns (91% N)
    2017 total impulse: 8,281.1 Ns (80% M)

  14. #104
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    28th June 2014
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    Hanover, New Hampshire
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    Awesome rockets! Great design, great construction and awesome flights! You should come fly at MMMSC sometime.
    David Nagy
    NAR #98597
    MMMSC NAR #727
    Number of newtons flown in 2015: 1024s
    JrL1 on 2.6" Madcow Arcas on an H143SS

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by T34zac View Post
    I think it's funny that you fly all these rockets with clusters, but the one that flies on a single motor lands off the field. As usual great flights.
    Thank you for your help tracking down the rocket.

    Clusters are not very efficient, but they sure are fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by littlemisterbig View Post
    Awesome rockets! Great design, great construction and awesome flights! You should come fly at MMMSC sometime.
    Thank you.

    MMMSC is a 2hr 40min drive each way for me.
    I do enjoy flying at that very nice sod farm location.

    When the Carbon Weasel's recovery setup is tweaked, I look forward to pushing it faster/higher at MMMSC.
    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  16. #106
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    Great shots and video, Boris. Thunderbird was my favorite....that CTI motor lit as fast as the BP motors! That BP pellet makes a world of difference!
    Marcus Harmon
    TRA# 8736
    Level 2

  17. #107
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    6th March 2010
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    Amesbury, MA
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusSRG View Post
    Great shots and video, Boris. Thunderbird was my favorite....that CTI motor lit as fast as the BP motors! That BP pellet makes a world of difference!
    Boris also uses his own relay box that dumps a lot of juice into the ignition circuit RIGHT NOW!!

    He's done a lot of research on commercially available igniters and e-matches.

    Boris has even been able to get AT motors to light in tune with CTI and BP motors.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by KennB View Post
    Boris also uses his own relay box that dumps a lot of juice into the ignition circuit RIGHT NOW!!

    He's done a lot of research on commercially available igniters and e-matches.

    Boris has even been able to get AT motors to light in tune with CTI and BP motors.

    Oh I know! Been following Boris for a while...his L2 Saturn V build got me hooked! I'm strongly considering building a similar relay launch system.

    Launch system aside, it would seem that IF any motor would light last it would be the composite. That's kinda what I was getting at. But hell, lighting a CTI (sans the few w/o igniter pellets) is pretty much the same as lighting a BP motor, but there may be that millisecond it takes for the BP to light the propellant grain.
    Marcus Harmon
    TRA# 8736
    Level 2

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusSRG View Post
    Oh I know! Been following Boris for a while...his L2 Saturn V build got me hooked! I'm strongly considering building a similar relay launch system.

    Launch system aside, it would seem that IF any motor would light last it would be the composite. That's kinda what I was getting at. But hell, lighting a CTI (sans the few w/o igniter pellets) is pretty much the same as lighting a BP motor, but there may be that millisecond it takes for the BP to light the propellant grain.
    A high current output relay box with very low internal resistance is extremely helpful when launching clusters.
    More info on mine here: http://bpasa.com/Cluster-box.htm

    So is using Rocketflite's igniters, because of high-quality, high-heat, and long leads - eliminating the need for whip clips.

    Many of the smaller CTI motors actually come up to pressure before most BP motors do.

    Most Estes motor thrust curves have an initial spike that peaks at 0.2 to 0.3 second after ignition.
    As the motor starts its burn, it creates a growing cavity just above the nozzle.
    The thrust peak corresponds to the maximum burning surface area.
    When the cavity burns out to the motor walls, the motor then functions as an end-burner.
    This later part of the burn is the lower thrusting tail of the burn.

    With highly engineered AP motors like CTI's, the motor starts off with the optimum burn cavity and surface already present before ignition.
    Then the BP plug most CTI motors use brings the motor up to pressure VERY quickly.
    Both CTI's reported thrust curves and the very modest tests I have done (counting video frames during motor ignitions) show that many (24mm-38mm) CTI motors have a thrust spike at 0.1 seconds or less.

    To fire clusters very reliably:
    > Firing all igniters within 0.1 seconds assures motor ignitions before the rocket has a chance to start moving up the rod/rail.
    (see Thunderbird first pic above)
    > Motors coming up to pressure - or better yet hitting peak thrust - in the 0.1 to 0.3 second window assures that all motors are pushing hard before the rocket leaves the rod/rail.
    (see Thunderbird second pic above)

    My experience with AT is mostly RMS 29mm F and G engines.
    What I do with these in clusters to help accelerate ignition is:
    > Put a dab (about twice as much as a typical igniter) of Rocketflite ML pyrogen inside the top of the
    propellant grain
    > If White Lightning propellant - sand inside of propellant grain
    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  20. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta22 View Post
    A high current output relay box with very low internal resistance is extremely helpful when launching clusters.
    More info on mine here: http://bpasa.com/Cluster-box.htm

    So is using Rocketflite's igniters, because of high-quality, high-heat, and long leads - eliminating the need for whip clips.

    Many of the smaller CTI motors actually come up to pressure before most BP motors do.

    Most Estes motor thrust curves have an initial spike that peaks at 0.2 to 0.3 second after ignition.
    As the motor starts its burn, it creates a growing cavity just above the nozzle.
    The thrust peak corresponds to the maximum burning surface area.
    When the cavity burns out to the motor walls, the motor then functions as an end-burner.
    This later part of the burn is the lower thrusting tail of the burn.

    With highly engineered AP motors like CTI's, the motor starts off with the optimum burn cavity and surface already present before ignition.
    Then the BP plug most CTI motors use brings the motor up to pressure VERY quickly.
    Both CTI's reported thrust curves and the very modest tests I have done (counting video frames during motor ignitions) show that many (24mm-38mm) CTI motors have a thrust spike at 0.1 seconds or less.

    To fire clusters very reliably:
    > Firing all igniters within 0.1 seconds assures motor ignitions before the rocket has a chance to start moving up the rod/rail.
    (see Thunderbird first pic above)
    > Motors coming up to pressure - or better yet hitting peak thrust - in the 0.1 to 0.3 second window assures that all motors are pushing hard before the rocket leaves the rod/rail.
    (see Thunderbird second pic above)

    My experience with AT is mostly RMS 29mm F and G engines.
    What I do with these in clusters to help accelerate ignition is:
    > Put a dab (about twice as much as a typical igniter) of Rocketflite ML pyrogen inside the top of the
    propellant grain
    > If White Lightning propellant - sand inside of propellant grain
    Great info, Boris. Yes, I've definitely studied your cluster box page. I may PM you with specific construction questions at some point. I'm not too familiar with those type of components (relays) and batteries.

    Regarding Rocketflite igniters, I emailed Greg Dyben about those HTMF wires and different uses of the pyrogens. The difference between the HTMF-12 wires (electric match replacement wires) and MF-12 wires is the lead wire....the HTMFs use 24awg wire and MFs use 26awg. This gets you slightly lower resistance with the HTMF wires but they are fatter with the lower gauge wires so they do not fit into small motors. He also told me that people have had success using lower current MF pyrogen as a primer (without the sealant) and dipping that in either CF or even better MF pyrogen. This might be my ticket for airstarts.

    Very interesting about the small CTI motors beating out BP motors on ignition time! Great explanation. I also am not familiar with Pro29 and 24 motors… I've only flown Pro38. A Pro 24 six grain case is on my radar though.

    I have had great success with rocketflite stuff too. I also set my motors up the same way...sanding the grain and augmenting them wih pyrogen at the top makes a world of difference!
    Marcus Harmon
    TRA# 8736
    Level 2

  21. #111
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    Data from the Featherweight Raven for the Carbon Weasel flight.

    max velocity: 428 mph
    max altitude: 2817 ft
    average acceleration during boost about 17 Gs

    Also shows the very energetic separation at apogee, with several peaks at about 90 Gs.
    This level of force is what caused the NC to sever the shear pin and deploy the main at apogee.
    Also bent one of the aluminum threaded rods in the alt bay.
    I had used 0.6 g ejection charges to assure separation, but this was too much for so small a rocket.
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    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  22. #112
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    A couple months ago an independent filmmaker contacted me, asking to borrow my Soyuz as a prop for a film he is making.

    The film concerns two people who build the rocket and launch it from a NYC rooftop.
    Obviously they are not really launching the rocket.

    Here are a couple pictures of the star of the movie, Imani, with the Soyuz.
    I think it's pretty cool to see a movie star next to one of my rockets.

    She is certainly a lot more charming than the old grey-haired guy usually seen with the Soyuz.
    We need more movie stars at rocket launches.
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    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  23. #113
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    That's awesome!
    Marcus Harmon
    TRA# 8736
    Level 2

  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta22 View Post
    A couple months ago an independent filmmaker contacted me, asking to borrow my Soyuz as a prop for a film he is making.

    The film concerns two people who build the rocket and launch it from a NYC rooftop.
    Obviously they are not really launching the rocket.
    I am shocked that you'd participate in an inaccurate depiction of our hobby. Okay, just kidding but somebody will probably say it.

    Have they actually shot any film?

    We need more movie stars at rocket launches.
    Since you now have an in with the film industry, I appoint you CMASS Liaison in charge of bringing movie stars to our launches.

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by billspad View Post
    I am shocked that you'd participate in an inaccurate depiction of our hobby. Okay, just kidding but somebody will probably say it.
    Yes, based on observations from last week, they would need to have a lot more motors exploding

    Quote Originally Posted by billspad View Post
    Have they actually shot any film?
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by billspad View Post
    Since you now have an in with the film industry, I appoint you CMASS Liaison in charge of bringing movie stars to our launches.
    I will use my considerable influence and many powerful friends to do just that.

    Oh, wait that was in a dream...

    Bill, I hear you really like emoticons, here are a few more :

    Sorry, I tried to include every available emoticon, but our artistic expression is severely limited by a 25 emoticon limit
    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta22 View Post
    Bill, I hear you really like emoticons, here are a few more :

    Sorry, I tried to include every available emoticon, but our artistic expression is severely limited by a 25 emoticon limit
    I never was a big emoticon fan but I get a strange pleasure combining emoji's on my iPhone to make rude and/or obscene phrases.





  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by billspad View Post
    I never was a big emoticon fan but I get a strange pleasure combining emoji's on my iPhone to make rude and/or obscene phrases.




    Church + happy chocolate soft serve = ?
    Dan Patell
    TRA 10904 L3

    Easy Research Rocketry
    29mm Research Hardware Has Returned!!!

  28. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by patelldp View Post
    Church + happy chocolate soft serve = ?
    Holy + something you don't ever want to mistake for chocolate soft serve

  29. #119
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    I played hookey.

    CMASS had a launch Saturday, 11/22/14.
    Weather prediction was for a high of 39 F, with winds 10-15 mph and gusts to 33.
    Amesbury launch site is on beautiful green rolling hills, but due to neighbors lobbying the town, we have to park 1/2 mile from where we launch, so warming up in your car is difficult at best.

    Instead of attending the launch, I slept late in a warm bed, cooked omelets and brewed strong coffee for the family, served my wife breakfast in bed, and finished reading the book my father just published. The book is titled "Working Together" and details his life's work helping people to empower and help themselves in a series of projects around the world.

    Discussed the weather with my son, we decided that it was too windy (and cold and nasty) for his TARC team to have productive flights.

    Despite all these good reasons, I still feel guilty for not attending the launch, like the (extremely rare) occasions when I played hookey from school or took a day off work in the middle of the week.

    After seeing pictures of CMASS folks looking very cold at the launch, my decision to stay warm was confirmed.
    However, I do regret missing the one annual night launch opportunity.

    RIMRA has a launch in a couple weeks and MMMSC a couple weeks after that.
    If the winds are moderate, hope to fly at one or both of these events.

    The HellBoy is prepped with a flashpan, which should be flown soon.
    Both spinning saucers are also ready to go.
    Would love to push the Carbon Weasel up fast at Berwick, ME.
    A CTI 38mm 3grain I236 should break a mile and MACH 1.3
    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  30. #120
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    Wimp. There were no 33 mph gusts but the wind was pretty steady all day. I felt warmer than I did at the 11/8 launch but we did have that heater this time. There was at least one TARC team there and their flight was straight as an arrow. We got off around 175 flights not counting half a dozen at the night launch.


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