Occultist father of rocketry 'written out' of Nasa's history

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I would agree that Von Braun's past should have him written out as well then. Parsons was a weirdo, but so what? He wasn't hurting anyone. I read Strange Angel and two others a while back, interesting but a bit dry.
 
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I would agree that Von Braun's past should have him written out as well then.

That would have been much more difficult considering the magnitude of his involvement in the US space program.

Parsons was a weirdo, but so what? He wasn't hurting anyone.
Exactly, and to me, one superstition isn't any more goofy than another just because it doesn't happen to be the currently most popular one.
 
Parsons didn't have a lot of formal training. He mostly liked to mix stuff (he was good at it too) and was at the right place at the right time.

Until:

"He ended up applying his skills to create pyrotechnics and explosives for the film industry. Just before a planned trip to Mexico in 1952, Parsons -- who was 37 -- received a large order of explosives for a movie. While preparing the order, there was an explosion involving mercury in which Parsons suffered fatal wounds"

Probably mercury fulminate.

In the process, he essentially invented composite propellants with fuel binders.

From the article, stuff that makes me chuckle:

"At the university's Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory, the trio collaborated on developing rockets in a creative and liberal environment as members of the GALCIT Rocket Research Group.

A quarter of the funding had to go towards repairing damage to Caltech buildings caused by the group's experiments and the group was eventually forced to relocate to some iron sheds in the Arroyo Seco canyon, where they were closely watched by the FBI which was keen to make sure that no political extremists were accessing the explosives. It was here that the Jet Propulsion Laboratory would be founded.

The team became known as the "Suicide Squad" on campus because of how dangerous their experiments were..."
 
1) The 'U.S. space program' was in its pre-embryonic stages in 1952, consisting of various experiments carried out by the Army and Air Force. NASA would not exist for 7 more years.

2) Geniuses tend to lose a little of their luster as 'geniuses' when they end up blowing themselves up (after a long history of blowing other $#$# up).

3) I am getting a little tired of the 'anything and everything any agency of the government says is some kind of lie, fabrication or concoction' storyline.
 
3) I am getting a little tired of the 'anything and everything any agency of the government says is some kind of lie, fabrication or concoction' storyline.
So am I (sincere) and I can't imagine why anyone would think that (sarcasm).
 
There's a short book of writings by the man himself called "Freedom Is A Two-Edged sword", the best of the ones mentioned here in my opinion.
 
I don't like it when anyone messes with History or tries to omit Facts. Makes me angry!!!:mad:
Too much of it goes on nowadays in our Schools.
 
"Father" of rocketry"? Hardly. A silly article mostly for sensationalism.

It's sort of hard for a person who died 6 years before NASA was created, and was fired from Aerojet about 17 years before NASA was created, to be considered written out of NASA HISTORY.

There are plenty of other people who were involved in rocketry pre-war and during the war that played more important roles than this guy, who DESERVE a lot more recognition.

On a different note, if anyone thinks Von Braun's contributions to America landing a man on the moon should be discounted (which is B.S., but I'm playing along for this example), then treat it like College football when a player is declared "ineligible" by the NCAA. So, the United States is stripped of the title for landing a man on the moon.

Really, I'm serious. Without Von Braun, it would have been many years, and maybe Russia would have done it first. If Von Braun had gone to Russia, and been allowed to do his thing, most likely Russia WOULD have made it to the moon first (However, for the most part, Russia mainly used their former German rocket scientists to help get Russia up to speed, but did not let them take nearly an active role as Von Braun's team was in the U.S. So, unless Korolev recognized what he would have had, and "adopted" Von Braun to be a key part of the Russian space program, then many of his talents and skills would have gone to waste).

- George Gassaway
 
Von Braun's contributions doesn't make him any less a Nazi. On a trivia note, the cover of "Sex and Rockets" bears a familiar craft - anybody seen it?
 
I don't like it when anyone messes with History or tries to omit Facts. Makes me angry!!:mad:

Then you should be happy, because that didn't happen in this case. :)

The article presents no evidence that NASA tried to cover up or discredit Parsons' rocketry accomplishments. In fact, it's obvious that NASA's records were used to research the article (and, I assume the book that is the basis of the article).

As George said, it's just sensationalism - which is kind of funny because Parsons' story is quite sensational without embellishment.

I don't know if the book makes the same claims or not.

-- Roger
 
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"Father" of rocketry"? Hardly. A silly article mostly for sensationalism.

It's sort of hard for a person who died 6 years before NASA was created, and was fired from Aerojet about 17 years before NASA was created, to be considered written out of NASA HISTORY.

There are plenty of other people who were involved in rocketry pre-war and during the war that played more important roles than this guy, who DESERVE a lot more recognition.

On a different note, if anyone thinks Von Braun's contributions to America landing a man on the moon should be discounted (which is B.S., but I'm playing along for this example), then treat it like College football when a player is declared "ineligible" by the NCAA. So, the United States is stripped of the title for landing a man on the moon.

Really, I'm serious. Without Von Braun, it would have been many years, and maybe Russia would have done it first. If Von Braun had gone to Russia, and been allowed to do his thing, most likely Russia WOULD have made it to the moon first (However, for the most part, Russia mainly used their former German rocket scientists to help get Russia up to speed, but did not let them take nearly an active role as Von Braun's team was in the U.S. So, unless Korolev recognized what he would have had, and "adopted" Von Braun to be a key part of the Russian space program, then many of his talents and skills would have gone to waste).

- George Gassaway

Agreed!
 
Von Braun's contributions doesn't make him any less a Nazi. On a trivia note, the cover of "Sex and Rockets" bears a familiar craft - anybody seen it?

One of my interests is the development of the atomic bomb and the Manhattan Project. The story behind all that is just incredible. There are a lot of German scientists that didn't get out before Hitler took over and closed the borders that were put to work to develop weapons, aircraft, and their own meager attempt at atomic bombs. Everything I've read about these guys talks about how they were members of the Nazi party only because they had no choice. If they wanted to keep their jobs and do the scientific research that they loved, they had to attend the Nazi meetings and pay dues to the party, otherwise they'd be removed from the universities and placed in the labor pool.

I never had the pleasure of getting to know Von Braun myself, so I don't know this for a fact, this is purely speculation. But I have a feeling that he was the same way. He had a life-long passion for rocketry, developing rockets for his ultimate goal of sending one to the moon, and was willing to put up with the Nazi crap in order to do the research he wanted. I'm sure he was a member of the Nazi party because there was no other choice. Unfortunately the Nazi's used his abilities to create the V2 which killed a lot of people, both in the forced labor and those that were hit by them. And I also assume that this wasn't his preference. He was drafted and told what to build. But again, this is speculation based on what I've read on a lot of other people in similar situations.

To me that makes him a welcome member of our side once the war was over if he was willing to denounce the Nazi party and use his skills to help us get to the moon.
 
So am I (sincere) and I can't imagine why anyone would think that (sarcasm).

Maybe they've been duped by a corporatist media conspiracy mainly fueled by one network (although basically all of them contribute to it)?

But enough of that.

Back to Von Braun:

1) He certainly was a Nazi.

2) Given his age, qualifications and profession, his options to being a Nazi in 1930s Germany mainly consisted of a quick visit to the firing squad.
 
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Maybe they've been duped by a corporatist media conspiracy mainly fueled by one network (although basically all of them contribute to it)?
It's no conspiracy. It's capitalism.

Back when newsrooms were the "loss leaders" at broadcast networks, established to fulfill their mandated community service role to be granted a license by the FCC for the use of the public airwaves, significant amounts of money were spent on investigative reporting, an expensive activity.

Now, with cable news not subject to the FCC public service mandate and designed to make a profit, it's all about attracting and maintaining a market share by telling one's audience what they want to hear which usually means telling just one side of a story at the lowest possible cost.
 
Accepting that argument sounds like a really good justification for extending the community service rule to cable.

It's no conspiracy. It's capitalism.

Back when newsrooms were the "loss leaders" at broadcast networks, established to fulfill their mandated community service role to be granted a license by the FCC for the use of the public airwaves, significant amounts of money were spent on investigative reporting, an expensive activity.

Now, with cable news not subject to the FCC public service mandate and designed to make a profit, it's all about attracting and maintaining a market share by telling one's audience what they want to hear which usually means telling just one side of a story at the lowest possible cost.
 
Agreed with all who state "Senationalism" and that this was just another means of getting people to read an article on a website that gets paid for hits.
 
Accepting that argument sounds like a really good justification for extending the community service rule to cable.
I definitely wish that were possible but, unfortunately, the FCC only controls the over-the-air RF spectrum and anything more would probably be shot down as censorship.
 
If the Russians had got von Braun, Korolev would have likely seen his talent but I bet likely would have been prevented by those he answered to from using von Braun to his full potential. As for the level of von Braun's Nazi leanings like everything it is complicated. He was in trouble for a large part of the war because the team openly admitted that space flight and not the war effort was the ultimate goal, and many sources gloss over his level of involvement in the Nazi party. The truth is likely he was perhaps more involved then we would like but not as involved as many fear he was, but likely we will never know.
 
It's no conspiracy. It's capitalism.

Back when newsrooms were the "loss leaders" at broadcast networks, established to fulfill their mandated community service role to be granted a license by the FCC for the use of the public airwaves, significant amounts of money were spent on investigative reporting, an expensive activity.

Now, with cable news not subject to the FCC public service mandate and designed to make a profit, it's all about attracting and maintaining a market share by telling one's audience what they want to hear which usually means telling just one side of a story at the lowest possible cost.

All true enough but I have worked in the media for 30 years and I can guarantee you: it IS a conspiracy.

Every single outlet of the "major media" dances to the strings pulled by puppetmasters in offices far far above.


Jumping back to Von Braun, he was placed under temporary arrest and threatened with execution even though he never made any overt moves to break away or defy the Nazi regime -- he was simply suspected of being insufficiently enthusiasic about working for it.

If he had, once again, there can't be much doubt he would have been quickly executed.
 
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Couple of things again regarding von Braun.

I saw someone receive an award, in which he credited his interest in aerospace to an article he read in Collier's magazine when he was in 8th grade, in 1952. The writer was von Braun. But of course he wasn't the only one to be so affected.

I had not even addressed the fact that von Braun was the main person responsible for developing PUBLIC interest in the space program…. BEFORE there was a space program. The foundation he laid with his articles, speeches, and television appearances (including with Walt Disney), helped to interest the American public in eventually supporting the space program. He was the key person, at the right place and the right time, between space being thought of by the public as either science fiction or a "nutty fantasy" (the original reaction that Goddard got to his "A Method For Reaching Extreme Altitudes", including ridicule from the New York Times. Leading him to shun public attention.).

Von Braun made the public generally realize that space travel was becoming possible, not sci-fi or fantasy.

The US could have had the first satellite in orbit, before Russia, if politics had not led to the U.S. Navy's Vanguard program being given that assignment. Indeed during a test flight of the Jupiter-C rocket, it was inspected by someone sent from Washington to make sure it did not have a live 4th stage that might "accidentally" orbit. When Vanguard-1 failed, then von Braun's team was finally given the permission to do what they could have done nearly a year earlier, and they soon put Explorer-1 into orbit.

Second thing. Let's see what Buzz Aldrin (at the podium to the right in the photo) has to say about it, narrating his video presentation about how he got to the moon on Apollo 11, crediting both Kennedy and von Braun:

Su1NZCW.jpg


Anyone want to argue with him about deleting the photo and "writing out" von Braun?

- George Gassaway
 
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Then you should be happy, because that didn't happen in this case. :)

The article presents no evidence that NASA tried to cover up or discredit Parsons' rocketry accomplishments. In fact, it's obvious that NASA's records were used to research the article (and, I assume the book that is the basis of the article).

As George said, it's just sensationalism - which is kind of funny because Parsons' story is quite sensational without embellishment.

I don't know if the book makes the same claims or not.

-- Roger

I made that statement as just that, a general statement. Not in regards to this particular Article.
 
Father of crucial Apollo plan for getting to the moon, "written out" of Wired.co UK

BTW - On April 15th, one of the publicly less known people who was key to Apollo's success, died.

John Houbolt

Incredibly ironic that a search on the Wired.com UK site does NOT find his name. "Written out" by Wired's version of space history, huh?

I guess because he wasn't into the occult, or had a crazy sex life, like Jack Parsons.

If you do not know who Houbolt was, and thought you knew about the space program, you really should. Google him.

He was an engineer who had a hard time getting his idea listened to. But when he finally did, even an initially skeptical von Braun came around to realizing it was indeed the way to go, requiring a far less heavy spacecraft to do the mission. Otherwise, it would have required a "Nova" size rocket to get to the moon, or two Saturn-V launches with the spacecraft assembled in orbit. And no way before 1970.

In trying to get his idea across, he wrote what was perhaps the most famous letter at NASA (for Apollo at least), which began:

"Somewhat as a voice in the wilderness....."

Really a great story. Google.

- George Gassaway
 
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All true enough but I have worked in the media for 30 years and I can guarantee you: it IS a conspiracy.

Every single outlet of the "major media" dances to the strings pulled by puppetmasters in offices far far above.
Agreed, newsroom editors (or whatever they call them in broadcast TV media) have always directed "the message." It's just the fact that newrooms which in broadcast TV were not expected to do anything other than lose money in the pursuit of fulfilling the FCC's public service mandate have now devolved into for-profit 24 hr cable "news" channels that make the bias even more obvious in order to tell their audiences what they want to hear in order to retain that audience while spending the absolute minimum amount of money to do so meaning little to no in-depth investigative journalism. It's so much easier and cheaper to have a multi-window screen of unpaid guest talking heads promoting their latest book, blog, or investment group trying to talk over each other or shout each other down. Garbage...

THIS doesn't help at all, either:

06-15-12-Crony_Capitalism-Media_Consolidation.png
 
Father of crucial Apollo plan for getting to the moon, "written out" of Wired.co UK

BTW - On April 15th, one of the publicly less known people who was key to Apollo's success, died.

John Houbolt

Incredibly ironic that a search on the Wired.com UK site does NOT find his name. "Written out" by Wired's version of space history, huh?

I guess because he wasn't into the occult, or had a crazy sex life, like Jack Parsons.

If you do not know who Houbolt was, and thought you knew about the space program, you really should. Google him.

He was an engineer who had a hard time getting his idea listened to. But when he finally did, even an initially skeptical von Braun came around to realizing it was indeed the way to go, requiring a far less heavy spacecraft to do the mission. Otherwise, it would have required a "Nova" size rocket to get to the moon, or two Saturn-V launches with the spacecraft assembled in orbit. And no way before 1970.

In trying to get his idea across, he wrote what was perhaps the most famous letter at NASA (for Apollo at least), which began:

"Somewhat as a voice in the wilderness....."

Really a great story. Google.

- George Gassaway

I remember reading about him in "Chariots For Apollo" and his dogged pursuit of LOR. I agree...great story.

FC
 
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