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For Sale: Large Lot Estes Rocket Engines and more $125

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ottobord

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estate auction purchase you get all pictured $125 plus $10 shipping, paypal preferred, I have ebay id for reference, email me with any questions

P1100542.jpg
 
they sell the motors on Amazon why can't they be shipped? I am in East Stroudsburg PA/
 
ottobord said:
they sell the motors on Amazon why can't they be shipped? I am in East Stroudsburg PA/
Click to expand...

Retailers who make a business of selling motors find it worthwhile go through a legal process and paperwork to be able to ship motors legally, and they still have to ship using only certain kinds of shippers, ground service only, and sometimes Hazmat shipping. Most private parties do not find it worthwhile. Other people can provide more info than I can. I just know that you cannot legally just drop them off at the USPS, UPS or FedEx. The penalties are substantial.

I hope you can find a local buyer. Maybe there is a local rocketry club you can check with.
 
I should add that not only would they need to be shipped Hazmat from a regulatory standpoint, but from an ethical standpoint as well, as it's not fair for the carrier and his/her family, the transferring facility employees & families, as well as any emergency responders and theirs as well, if something were to go wrong (that's why DOT the regs were promulgated to begin with)...we (me included) tend to forget why these sometimes seemingly stupid and economy-draining regs were written. Sorry for the soap-box post, but just a reminder for you, me, and others that may read this.
 
They can be shipped legally. Yes there are procedures and regulations, but they are not that onerous for small motors. All it takes is a bit of research and creativity to find the solution. And there is virtually nothing dangerous that can go wrong if properly shipped. Motors do not self ignite.
 
They can be shipped, Estes ships the smaller sizes USPS, the larger ones can be shipped but the description says
"ATTENTION: Additional Hazardous Materials shipping and handling charge of $35.49 will be applied at checkout."

I'm new here but I'm surprised that this wasn't common knowledge in a for sale forum.
 
And in case you do not want to read that document, here is the section you need to read:
Sport rocket motors with 62.5 grams or less of black powder or ammonium perchlorate
composite propellant are classified as Division 1.4 Explosives. Within this overall 1.4 category,
motors with more than 30 grams of propellant are classified as Division 1.4C (specifically, as
Model Rocket Motor NA0276), while those with 30 grams or less are classified Division 1.4S
(Model Rocket Motor NA0323). Most sport rocket manufacturers have a special DOT
exemption that gives them permission to ship small quantities of sport rocket motors that are
classified 1.4 (62.5 grams or less of propellant) as if these items were a lower hazard category
called Flammable Solid (Division 4.1, UN1325). The packaging and labeling for 4.1 materials is
less burdensome than for 1.4 materials. Most motors are shipped as Flammable Solids to
individuals and hobby stores by the manufacturers and their distributors. Individual rocketeers
are not parties to this DOT exemption and cannot ship motors as Flammable Solid (4.1), even if
they can find a carrier who will accept and ship HAZMAT.
 
It is common nowledge that you can get a BIG FINE (like $40,000) for shipping motors illegally. To ship them legally you need to PRECISELY follow the COMPLETE set of shipping regulations. You should start by reading the full summary provided by the NAR in the link already provided by others.


Estes E15 motors were recalled as they fail violently when ignited. Do not sell those to anyone else or you will expose yourself to liability for damages or injury. Contact Estes for instructions on what to do with them and they may even ship you something as a replacement (they will ship legally).


ottobord said:
They can be shipped, Estes ships the smaller sizes USPS, the larger ones can be shipped but the description says
"ATTENTION: Additional Hazardous Materials shipping and handling charge of $35.49 will be applied at checkout."

I'm new here but I'm surprised that this wasn't common knowledge in a for sale forum.
Click to expand...
 
ottobord said:
They can be shipped, Estes ships the smaller sizes USPS, the larger ones can be shipped but the description says
"ATTENTION: Additional Hazardous Materials shipping and handling charge of $35.49 will be applied at checkout."

I'm new here but I'm surprised that this wasn't common knowledge in a for sale forum.
Click to expand...

They can be shipped legally by the manufacturer and retailers who have completed DOT procedures and have obtained an exemption you do not have. In a sense, you are not "licensed" to do what these companies can do. THAT is common knowledge on this forum.

Most likely, you are not going to find it worthwhile to try to go through all the steps you would need to go through to ship $125 worth of motors. In addition --- and this is not meant to insult you or dissuade anyone else from considering your offer --- in my opinion, the deal you are offering is not really that great at $125, and you might need to lower it, especially after you remove the dangerous exploding E15 motors from the deal. You can take that advice or leave it.
 
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Really? 20 packages of motors for $125 6 bucks each ..... plus all the other stuff ... poor advice
 
ottobord said:
Really? 20 packages of motors for $125 6 bucks each ..... plus all the other stuff ... poor advice
Click to expand...

For comparison, you should check AC Supply to see what all these things cost. They are selling many of the same motors for $6 or $7 brand new, not stored for years under unknown conditions, and shipping on orders over $100 is free. Like I said, you can take this advice or leave it. And with that, I think I am done offering advice.
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
For comparison, you should check AC Supply to see what all these things cost. They are selling many of the same motors for $6 or $7 brand new, not stored for years under unknown conditions, and shipping on orders over $100 is free. Like I said, you can take this advice or leave it. And with that, I think I am done offering advice.
Click to expand...

Since you so much insisting on flowing the rules, may be you can fallow the forums rules.

troj said:
Yet another reminder that posting replies along the lines of "You can buy it from XYZ for less" is tacky, as is discouraging people from buying the item. If you don't have an interest in what's being sold, then please, stay out of the thread.

-Kevin
Click to expand...
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
For comparison, you should check AC Supply to see what all these things cost. They are selling many of the same motors for $6 or $7 brand new, not stored for years under unknown conditions, and shipping on orders over $100 is free. Like I said, you can take this advice or leave it. And with that, I think I am done offering advice.
Click to expand...
horse to water.jpg
 
Area66 said:
Since you so much insisting on flowing the rules, may be you can fallow the forums rules.
Click to expand...

It's in the interest of all of us when laws might be broken - what exactly is your interest in this?
 
Area66 said:
Since you so much insisting on flowing the rules, may be you can fallow the forums rules.
Click to expand...

I can't decide whether to "flow" or to "fallow" the rules. Sorry if my advice was taken as tacky. Technically the poster's prices are better than AC Supply so I do not mean to discourage anyone from considering the offer, especially if they can meet the poster in person and avoid shipping and a DOT violation.
 
Here is some help !!! :)

*** Just sell Local ***

I'm sure there are plenty of folks in your area who might want to buy these ** IN PERSON **

+ + Some folks actually collect old motors + +

Check the NAR website for a list of clubs in your area - make some calls - maybe a attend a launch.

Here's a list to help get you started. :)

"New" North Eastern Pennsylvania Rocketry Association (NEPRA) #614 https://www.thenewnepra.org/
John B. Caramagna
73 Floyd Pl - 1A, East Norwich, NY 11732
PA
Phone : (516) 297-1782

Southern Pennsylvania Area Association of Rocketry (SPAAR) #503 https://www.spaar.org/
Dale Green
244 Conoy Ave
Elizabethtown PA 17022
Phone : (717) 367-8646

Pittsburgh Space Command (PSC) #473 https://www.psc473.org/
Rod Schafer
27 Royal Oak Dr
Lower Burrell PA 15068
Phone : (724) 212-3741

Central Pennsylvania Rocketeers (CPR) #659
Thomas Ha
512 Chestnut St
Mt Holly Springs PA 17065
Phone : (717) 385-8692

Philadelphia Area Rocketry Association (PARA) #520 https://www.para520.org/
Barry McGarvey
1127 Surrey Rd
Philadelphia PA 19115
Phone : (215) 284-8120

Millersville Area Rocketry Association (MARS-PA) #647
Brian Osmolinski
2828 Willow St Pike
Willow Street PA 17584
Phone : (717) 507-0332
 
Originally Posted by troj

Yet another reminder that posting replies along the lines of "You can buy it from XYZ for less" is tacky, as is discouraging people from buying the item. If you don't have an interest in what's being sold, then please, stay out of the thread.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

Kevin has given us advice about being involved in a “transaction” thread when we are not interested in being either the transactor or the transactee (buyer or seller);) Wise advice it is but we seem to assume that is the only way we might be interested in the thread.

I am not interested in whether otto sells these for $20 or $2000. I am not going to buy them. However I am interested in the items being sold. My interest comes from a desire that the hobby does not make headlines about some “rocketeer” (which it seems the OP isn't) being arrested for sending “explosives” (which they are not) through the mail or worse, causing an accident just by not knowing or following the rules.

Shipping these motors without the proper DOT documentation is illegal. Now you know.

Also, I don't believe anyone here is thinking you are intentionally trying to do something illegal. For your information, there have been some issues with new members showing up and “selling” items that may or may not exist and you may be getting a little attitude from some who have been burned. As I write this the only posts you have on the entire board are those about selling these items. Like it or not and as unfounded as it may be, that does make some of us a little hesitant.

I would encourage you to stipulate local pickup only if you are determined to sell the motors. That would take care of a couple of perceived issues.

Thanks for listening to an interested party.
 
I've read all the posts and listening to all the advice. Just for the record does anyone know of a news story of a rocket motor shipment gone bad.
 
ottobord said:
I've read all the posts and listening to all the advice. Just for the record does anyone know of a news story of a rocket motor shipment gone bad.
Click to expand...

Nope but that's because things are shipped as per Fed mandated regs.

Another big problem with an illegal shipment is BOTH parties at either end have penalties that involve Federal Prison if the Feds so choose. I have bought a lot of motors online, 150 or so from sales here in the Yardsale from dealers reducing old stock, most at $1 each or so. A great deal of them Cobra labeled. All shipped legaly

It's just argueing about it won't change the facts, it's illegal to ship the motors without a HAZMAT. Very nearly everybody here knows this and no one will risk the consequences to save a few bucks. eBay simply forbids the sale of the motors. I have personally flagged many that try to slip past this restriction for the reason it's bad for the hobby. I also notify and tell the seller that I have. They have all thanked me and said they didn't know.

If weather permits I'd bet with the list above you can find a fairly local launch to you and sell them there with no problems at all. Take a day, enjoy the Spring drive through the country and be glad you're not on your way to jail ;)
 
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"News story", no.....

Plenty of info, links and court documents were posted in the past, but they were on the older archived version of The Rocketry Forum or on now defunct rocketry websites and on the old USENET newsgroup rec.models.rockets

I could give you the key terms to search for, but the best ones involve the name of "He who shall not be mentioned".


ottobord said:
I've read all the posts and listening to all the advice. Just for the record does anyone know of a news story of a rocket motor shipment gone bad.
Click to expand...
 

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