Most hair-raising flight you ever witnessed?

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Can anyone provide a first-hand account of the "Flying Pyramid of Doom"? I seem to recall it flew (sort of) at a mid-90's LDRS. I'm actually surprised no one has mentioned it yet.
 
Midwest Power 7 (2009). Roger and I mixed up a 7 grain 98mm Tiger Tail for the Cayemberg’s 12” Nike Smoke. After the electronics were turned on and the igniter installed, the motor was erroneously ignited. Details of how/why the motor was erroneously ignited have been purposefully omitted, so please don’t ask. I was about 15-20 feet from the rocket when the motor came up to pressure. I had a front row seat to a large N motor, so I planted my feet and watched the show. It was really loud…

MWP7 Nike.JPG

Justin
 
At BALLS. A flight of a coaxial motor I designed. It was a 38mm K slid up inside an 75mm M. It was supposed to eject the K which recovered on a chute before lighting the M. The K didn't eject, the M lit, but the nozzle was plugged by the K motor. I've seen quite a few more, but I was closest to that one.
 
...so I think everybody assumed I was dead. Everybody came running out with first aid kits, but luckily I was fine and so was everybody else out at the away cell.

I was there and yes we all were thinking..."lord we finally did it...we killed someone". If I recall correctly you mentioned something about needing laundry services.
 
At one of the Fire on the Farm events in the early to mid 2000s at Pickrell, Nebraska, Kent Burnett was holding onto a rocket while the Hypertek motor was being filled. The person at the launch controller hit fire by mistake when ending the fill. Kent was still holding the rocket when it fired. Kent was holding the rocket because it was somewhat windy and the rocket was moving around on the rod.
 
I was flying at a club with a wireless launch system that had a relay box very close to the pad with short leads to hook up your ignitor. I was launching a 75lb rocket on a very aggressive EX 10kns M3600. After getting the rocket armed, I bent down to arm the pad before retreating and the motor instantly came up to pressure. The blast/my instincts threw me backward on my ass and through the ringing in my ears I could hear a massive boom. A second into the burn, the motor CATO'ed over my head and rained parts all over the away cell. Once the sound of the launch hit the flight line, I was already laying on the ground, so I think everybody assumed I was dead. Everybody came running out with first aid kits, but luckily I was fine and so was everybody else out at the away cell. The relay in the box had become fused shut, so the pad was hot as soon as I flipped the arm switch on the box. I'm lucky the motor didn't CATO instantly or else I would be toast.

I was going to post about this....

I was standing about 10 feet behind Tharrison when this happened. I'll never forget the image of that rocket taking off and Todd going flying backwards towards me. After standing back up and getting out a few explitives I remember thinking "where did the rocket go?" we heard stuff start hitting the ground around us and I realized it CATO'd. When we looked up there was a debris cloud of fiberglass, plywood and somewhere a motor casing. We spent the next ~10s dodging parts of all shapes and sizes including the motor case that impaled itself almost completely into the ground.

I don't arm wireless launch systems anymore.

Interestingly I returned to the launch site 4 months or so later to spectate and found a half of a graphite nozzle at the low power pads (almost the flight line) half buried near a drainage ditch. It was the one I had machined for the motor. Apparently it had spit out, hit the pad, and bounced to the low power pads, luckily not impaling one of us on the way.
 
Midwest Power 7 (2009). Roger and I mixed up a 7 grain 98mm Tiger Tail for the Cayemberg’s 12” Nike Smoke. After the electronics were turned on and the igniter installed, the motor was erroneously ignited. Details of how/why the motor was erroneously ignited have been purposefully omitted, so please don’t ask. I was about 15-20 feet from the rocket when the motor came up to pressure. I had a front row seat to a large N motor, so I planted my feet and watched the show. It was really loud…

View attachment 169961

Justin

Thankfully it didn't ignite while that guy was standing there; that could've been bad! Whenever the debate comes up regarding ethics of arming electronics or hooking igniters first, I think back to that very moment. Always arm electronics before hooking up igniters; 'nuff said.

While that event was certainly in my top 5, unfortunately it is not in my top 3 most hair raising events at a launch!

Good to (virtually) see you Justin; missed you at TS5!

-Eric-
 
I'll preface this by saying that I've been attending organized launches for almost 15 years - averaging more than one club launch a month. That comes to more than 5000 individual rocket launches that I've seen in person. And no more than a hand-full resulted in "hair-rasing" events - less than 1 in 1000. So, they aren't all that common.

I once heard, but didn't see, a long, thin, heavy part of a rocket come in ballistic and hit the ground a few feet beside me. I felt it, more than heard it, when it buried itself a few inches in the hard ground.

And, there was the time I was standing on a ladder arming the altimeter in my 12-foot tall YouBee as the ejection charges went off. No one was hurt, but it was close. I make sure everyone else is away from the rocket when I arm the altimeter now.

The most scary thing, though was probably the M motor rocket that came in ballistic at one launch, crashing out of sight (and off-site). It had taken a turn out of the launch area towards some houses. We heard it hit the ground, but it was a while before we had learned that no one one the ground was hurt and that it didn't hit any property.

-- Roger
 
While I understand the almost voyeuristic interest in threads like this, I have to ask....are they really good for the hobby?

Think about it. You're now taking and documenting mishaps. Not only that, but you're doing so publicly. This is fodder for insurance companies, lawyers and regulatory agencies. Especially since it's all incredible out of context.

It's now public record, because you've all just posted this publicly.

These things happen. It's not good when they do; when they do, the folks involved should take time to make an honest assesment of what, if anything, they could've done better. Posting it publicly isn't, in my opinion, one of them.

-Kevin
 
While I understand the almost voyeuristic interest in threads like this, I have to ask....are they really good for the hobby?

Think about it. You're now taking and documenting mishaps. Not only that, but you're doing so publicly. This is fodder for insurance companies, lawyers and regulatory agencies. Especially since it's all incredible out of context.

It's now public record, because you've all just posted this publicly.

These things happen. It's not good when they do; when they do, the folks involved should take time to make an honest assesment of what, if anything, they could've done better. Posting it publicly isn't, in my opinion, one of them.

-Kevin

I've learned several good safety pointers from this thread thanks to the shared experience of others. I'll be keeping these stories in mind the next times I go to a launch, which will ultimately make for a safer experience.
 
While I understand the almost voyeuristic interest in threads like this, I have to ask....are they really good for the hobby?

Think about it. You're now taking and documenting mishaps. Not only that, but you're doing so publicly. This is fodder for insurance companies, lawyers and regulatory agencies. Especially since it's all incredible out of context.

It's now public record, because you've all just posted this publicly.

These things happen. It's not good when they do; when they do, the folks involved should take time to make an honest assesment of what, if anything, they could've done better. Posting it publicly isn't, in my opinion, one of them.

So do you think this thread, IF it's ever seen by a hostile lawyer/insurance exec, would be more harmful than all the YouTube "close call" videos of massive CATOs and ballistic recoveries?!? Umm....no, I kinda doubt that.
 
While I understand the almost voyeuristic interest in threads like this, I have to ask....are they really good for the hobby?

Think about it. You're now taking and documenting mishaps. Not only that, but you're doing so publicly. This is fodder for insurance companies, lawyers and regulatory agencies. Especially since it's all incredible out of context.

It's now public record, because you've all just posted this publicly.

These things happen. It's not good when they do; when they do, the folks involved should take time to make an honest assessment of what, if anything, they could've done better. Posting it publicly isn't, in my opinion, one of them.

I think it would be a bigger problem if insurance companies, lawyers and regulatory agencies were to get the impression that we are hiding things.

-- Roger
 
I think it would be a bigger problem if insurance companies, lawyers and regulatory agencies were to get the impression that we are hiding things.

There is a world of difference between not announcing them to the world, and hiding them.

It's funny and sad, at the same time - people on here get up in arms over things that are posted on YouTube, "misuse" of rockets in movies and commercials....then, they'll turn around and post a thread like this.

Some time, ask the organizational leadership whether threads like this are a good thing.

-Kevin
 
There is a world of difference between not announcing them to the world, and hiding them.

I'd agree if the posts here were sensationalizing or trivializing the events (such as the YouTube videos and those in them do). But, they aren't.

We have an excellent safety record and part of the reason that's true is that we learn from others and from past events.

-- Roger
 
Troj, I get where you're coming from. Protecting the hobby is important. By the same token, would the traffic fatalities be scrutinized the same way? "Let's close the highways and freeways to keep people safe." Did NASA close it's doors with all the mishaps over the years? Guns and laws...we don't even wanna go there. We live in a world where people will tinker and explore, push boundaries and such. I for one, can not afford getting into high powered rocketry, but those that can and do, present a bigger display at how perverted this ability to produce flying objects that can and could cause bodily harm, could be used. I apologize to the HPR members here on that note, but you have to realize you are seriously under the microscope. We all love our hobby and I think we all admire people on whatever level they prefer to participate on. But the bottom line here is, a little more focus on your ambitions would result in a better impression.
 
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Can anyone provide a first-hand account of the "Flying Pyramid of Doom"? I seem to recall it flew (sort of) at a mid-90's LDRS. I'm actually surprised no one has mentioned it yet.

Yes indeed, since not only was I *there*, but I was also supposed to be involved in this directly....let me elaborate a bit.

You see, the infamous Flying Pyramid of Death came off the launch rod and immediantly layed over and went sideways, finally impacting a good ways away, and thankfully its trajectory was parallel to the flight line, so no one was really in any real danger.

I was supposed to be one of the team to set this up there at LDRS XV, but at that time I was recovering an HPR glider (mine are free flight, remember). So, this was done without me there, and they went ahead and set this 4ft tall pyramid up on a pretty short launch rod. It did not have enough rod to get up to safe speed, so that's why it cocked off so badly.

The flyer, who used to be my best rocketry friend, had flown a half sized version of this multiple times with success before, including there. So, what's the difference here? Well, flying a 2' pyramid off a 6ft rod is better than a 4ft version on a rod only its own height. In fact, he had even made earlier test flights where this 'short rod' behavior was pretty well known - these flights went more sideways than up, even with 'enough' avg and total impulse.

Another trivia point about Flying Pyramid of Death: *I* was the one who assembled the M1419 it used, the classic 98mm 3 grain Aerotech WL deal. Not only this, but I got to clean up the borrowed hardware too (fun getting all that grease off the inside of the main casing).

So, I guess that I'm just plain bad to have around your launch, and worse if I'm involved in any 'funny' projects'......:eek:
 
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The F P of D was a level 3 cert flight. I was one of the signatures and I had conned Scott Bartell (Black Sky) into the second. He had done all the work to show it would work with the subscale launches which went well. It looked like a slow ignition and a short rod got him, it went quite straight after getting up to speed, just nearly horizontal and towards the crowd.
The way the Orangeburg launch was set up there was a long narrow venders row like a peninsula sticking out from the parking area. The F P of D went down the right side parallel to this and landed in the open area.
It was a definite nail in the coffin of using odd rocs for TRA cert flights

M
 
Well, there was this shuttle flight once.....



(too soon?)
 
I think it would be a bigger problem if insurance companies, lawyers and regulatory agencies were to get the impression that we are hiding things.

-- Roger


According to USA Today, 1.35 Million children a year end up in the emergency room because of sports injuries.

Hey Insurance companies, lawyers, and regulatory agencies, there are millions of organized activities that are damaging our children!! They take place right out in the open, publicly hosting dangerous activities! Whether you are sincerely concerned for the health of the people, are are nothing but an ambulance chaser, organized sports is your gold mine!

And if you REALLY want to see carnage, there are many examples from pro sports!

Go ahead, Regulatory Agency, crunch the numbers - look at how many documented sports injuries you find. Now, crunch the numbers of rocketry-related injuries from our events. How do the numbers compare?
 
According to USA Today, 1.35 Million children a year end up in the emergency room because of sports injuries.

Hey Insurance companies, lawyers, and regulatory agencies, there are millions of organized activities that are damaging our children!! They take place right out in the open, publicly hosting dangerous activities! Whether you are sincerely concerned for the health of the people, are are nothing but an ambulance chaser, organized sports is your gold mine!

And if you REALLY want to see carnage, there are many examples from pro sports!

Go ahead, Regulatory Agency, crunch the numbers - look at how many documented sports injuries you find. Now, crunch the numbers of rocketry-related injuries from our events. How do the numbers compare?


...the carnage from trampoline's alone would fill a hospital...
 
I had an experience a few years ago. I had a 4" diameter, 5' tall rocket, with a central 29 surrounded by 3 more 29's, those were to be airstarted soon after liftoff. I had the rocket on the pad, with all the igniters hooked up, and armed the G-wiz LC-800. As I was looking into the vent hole to check the LED status, I heard a noise, and realized that a motor had lit. I spun around, and the rocket took off, about 2 or 3 feet away from me.
At first, I thought that the LCO had either launched it, or there was a fault with the launch controller. The rocket went less than 100 feet up, and nose dived to the lakebed. I discovered that the airstarts had fired on the pad. All 3 igniters had lit for the airstarts, but only 1 of the G-64 motors lit. The central H220 had not lit.
I had extensively ground tested this before flight, and everything checked out. When I go this home, I thought maybe I'd messed up on wiring this, but that was not the case. I tested this again several times, and it checked out perfectly.
I sent the altimeter back to G-wiz, with a letter explaining what happened, and told them I did not want it back.
A "g" motor is pretty loud from only a couple feet away. Here's a photo of how the rocket landed.Picture 003.jpg
 
I had an experience a few years ago. I had a 4" diameter, 5' tall rocket, with a central 29 surrounded by 3 more 29's, those were to be airstarted soon after liftoff. I had the rocket on the pad, with all the igniters hooked up, and armed the G-wiz LC-800. As I was looking into the vent hole to check the LED status, I heard a noise, and realized that a motor had lit. I spun around, and the rocket took off, about 2 or 3 feet away from me.
At first, I thought that the LCO had either launched it, or there was a fault with the launch controller. The rocket went less than 100 feet up, and nose dived to the lakebed. I discovered that the airstarts had fired on the pad. All 3 igniters had lit for the airstarts, but only 1 of the G-64 motors lit. The central H220 had not lit.
I had extensively ground tested this before flight, and everything checked out. When I go this home, I thought maybe I'd messed up on wiring this, but that was not the case. I tested this again several times, and it checked out perfectly.
I sent the altimeter back to G-wiz, with a letter explaining what happened, and told them I did not want it back.
A "g" motor is pretty loud from only a couple feet away. Here's a photo of how the rocket landed.View attachment 170077

:wink: Was there an Rf tracker inside?:wink: They can make electronics do strange things. G-wiz ever let you know if there was a problem with the altimeter you sent back or if it tested out OK? If you flew the rocket without a tracker, that shoots that
theory down. Kurt
 
As I read this thread I noted a few "events" that I witnessed or I was involved with.
1. I was a member of the launch team for the Delta III in Argonia that went all cruise missile. We learned a lot from that less than optimal launch.:blush: The group applied those to the rebuild, prep and ignition sequence for the successful launch at LDRS 25 in Amarillo. :smile:
2. While at LDRS 25 I was standing at the flight line with my grandson when the Contrail motor suffered the massive cato! That made my chest hurt.

In 2001 while attending my first large regional launch I witnessed a two rocket N motor drag race where both rockets shredded. One came in sounding like an artillery round and buried itself up to the fincan in a field away from the flight line. The other rocket dropped in the parking area behind the flight line. It looked like the rocket would impact a car with a lady in it. Many of us were shouting at her to get out of the car and move but she didn't. Luckily the rocket missed the car but hit the ground next to the front fender.

My personal pucker factor flight was with a 4" dual deploy Endeavour that didn't separate at apogee. It was coming in ballistic behind the flight line when the main charge went off at 500'. It ejected the main and landed safely but scared the heck out of me and others. Post flight analysis showed the apogee charge had gone off but did not generate enough gas to cause separation.
 
:wink: Was there an Rf tracker inside?:wink: They can make electronics do strange things. G-wiz ever let you know if there was a problem with the altimeter you sent back or if it tested out OK? If you flew the rocket without a tracker, that shoots that
theory down. Kurt

No, there was no tracker. Just the altimeter, and the 2 batteries. You would not believe how many times I tested this before flight. A few months before the flight, I had another problem with the altimeter, and sent it to G-wiz, they said the only thing wrong was the battery connection was bad, they put a new pigtail on. (I knew that when I sent it in, that was one of the issues I knew about). When I got it home after the flight, I looked at my wiring, I thought maybe I messed up, but that wasn't the problem. It tested perfectly when I got home. I decided that I didn't want anything more to do with it, and no, I never got a reply back from them. I have some repairs to do to the rocket, next time it flies will be with different electronics.
 
No, there was no tracker. Just the altimeter, and the 2 batteries. You would not believe how many times I tested this before flight. A few months before the flight, I had another problem with the altimeter, and sent it to G-wiz, they said the only thing wrong was the battery connection was bad, they put a new pigtail on. (I knew that when I sent it in, that was one of the issues I knew about). When I got it home after the flight, I looked at my wiring, I thought maybe I messed up, but that wasn't the problem. It tested perfectly when I got home. I decided that I didn't want anything more to do with it, and no, I never got a reply back from them. I have some repairs to do to the rocket, next time it flies will be with different electronics.

That's an appropriate response. :clap: I had an altimeter deploy the chutes on the pad before I was smart enough to ground test with a
100mw tracker. I then did a ground test with a low powered tracker by letting it sit with ematches in place. Passed it and when flown, the apogee charge blew on ascent and zippered the rocket.:shock: It was a 4" rocket and simmed nowhere near mach with a 38mm motor due to size and length. I have two of that altimeter type and they will never be flown by me again nor will I sell or give them to anyone else.
I will say they were "kits" so anyone reading this shouldn't immediately have fear if they bought a commerically available and built deployment device. Kurt
 
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