Malfunctioning Engine Statistical Survey (MESS) data?

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Winston

Lorenzo von Matterhorn
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I see the on-line form to submit a report, but where's the data compiled to date from those reports? I ask because I just got a pack of E12-8s via mail order with the 08 18 11 date code.

https://www.nar.org/NARmessform.html

Just curious - if a vendor has a bunch of E12s with this date code can they send them back to Estes for refund or exchange?
 
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The data is sent to NAR S&T. They use it to watch for patterns of problems, and if necessary, to work with the manufacturers.

-Kevin
 
I still think flyers are smart enough to make their own decisions by looking at all the data.

Without it we're just left to looking at fantastic explosion photos and wondering what the real percentages of problems are.

A non-Estes E example, I've had an H178DM delay burn fast and heard a few others report it. If I knew it was isolated I'd buy more. Without more data.... I'm not going to touch them.

Ideally it would be nice to have success/failure data from all organized launches... but the logistics of that makes it unlikely
 
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This has been explained by S&T folks many times before, so it can probably be searched and found, but I will attempt to re-type what i remember of what they said.

The number of reports is statistically insignificant compared to the number of motors made and sold. Releasing the data from those tiny number of reports would tell you nothing and could be used to 'smear' or 'damage' a manufacturer's reputation with no scientific basis in reality.

WHEN they detect an unusual number of failures for a motor type or a date they inform the manufacturer. If a public notice is warranted, one is issued. If the manufacturer needs to do a recall, they do so.

If you want more data, then EVERYONE needs to report failures to the M.E.S.S. and the manufacturers.
I still think flyers are smart enough to make their own decisions by looking at all the data.

Without it we're just left to looking at fantastic explosion photos and wondering what the real percentages of problems are.

A non-Estes E example, I've had an H178DM delay burn fast and heard a few others report it. If I knew it was isolated I'd buy more. Without more data.... I'm not going to touch them.
 
I understand, and to a point concede. But you have to admit, even limited data is better than leaving us all to rumor and limited personal experience. The E12 is the perfect example of that.

And yes, info from everyone would be the best case. It would be cool if data from flight cards were reported in a simple "motor - result" format. Trouble now is there are limited failure reports and no success reports.
 
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.... If a public notice is warranted, one is issued. If the manufacturer needs to do a recall, they do so..

So what Estes is waiting to recall the E12-8 with the 08 18 11 date code ?
 
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This has been explained by S&T folks many times before, so it can probably be searched and found, but I will attempt to re-type what i remember of what they said.

The number of reports is statistically insignificant compared to the number of motors made and sold. Releasing the data from those tiny number of reports would tell you nothing and could be used to 'smear' or 'damage' a manufacturer's reputation with no scientific basis in reality.

WHEN they detect an unusual number of failures for a motor type or a date they inform the manufacturer. If a public notice is warranted, one is issued. If the manufacturer needs to do a recall, they do so.

If you want more data, then EVERYONE needs to report failures to the M.E.S.S. and the manufacturers.

They'd also need to release data for every successful motor to see the failure rate and trend, which obviously isn't possible.
 
They'd also need to release data for every successful motor to see the failure rate and trend, which obviously isn't possible.

Sure it is. All you need is every flight reported. Perhaps not possible but you could get a very large amount. Of course assuming that a high percentage of motors that fail are reported to the manufacturer for replacement, they have the data on failure rates for each motor...but I doubt they'd share that data. ( i wouldn't expect them to)
 
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