SpaceX Falcon 9 1st stage water landing successful

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Winston

Lorenzo von Matterhorn
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Very unfortunately, extremely heavy seas and bad weather apparently prevented any video of it, but:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk

Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk (13h ago)
Data upload from tracking plane shows landing in Atlantic was good! Several boats enroute through heavy seas.

Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk (13h ago)
Flight computers continued transmitting for 8 seconds after reaching the water. Stopped when booster went horizontal.
 
Not the landing mentioned above, but a very recent land-based test:

[video=youtube;0UjWqQPWmsY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjWqQPWmsY[/video]
 
Thanks for the links, I am looking forward to seeing a hard surface landing. I would imagine the heat close to the nozzle must be quite a lot. When you consider that normally a rocket is moving away from it's exhaust and this will be moving towards it, it must be quite a challenge to keep everything together.
 
For a landing, I'm wondering how many engines will be running? Shouldn't take much.
 
According to this link https://www.cnet.com/news/spacex-successfully-launches-falcon-9-rocket-carrying-crucial-cargo-to-iss/, the plan is to send this same booster back to space and attempt a hard surface landing.
From that link:

"The second burn will occur before the rocket hovers over the Atlantic Ocean, where it will deploy 25-foot landing legs and then softly land in the water for pickup. If successful, Musk said he wants to send the same Falcon 9 back to space and have it return once more, but this time use those landing legs to settle back down on firm ground."

Until I hear that directly from Elon, I'm skeptical since the sea was extremely rough at landing and possible damage from that combined with salt water on and inside a booster designed to land on land would make me very reluctant to be the next payload on that booster. This may have been a misinterpertation by CNN (after all, this is CNN) with "same booster" being confused with "same type of booster" and the "if successful" part only referring to successfully landing on the water at a velocity that would have survived a ground landing. However, it could very well be they can refurbish it well enough and reuse it, going to the extra expense of doing that just to be able to claim they've reused a booster.
 
For a landing, I'm wondering how many engines will be running? Shouldn't take much.
You can see just the center engine burning in the Falcon 9 booster landing in the video I linked to. This statement from Musk also makes me think that only that center engine is used in the retro braking manuever, too:

"Initial recovery test will be a water landing. First stage continue in ballistic arc and execute a velocity reduction burn before it enters atmosphere to lessen impact. Right before splashdown, will light up the engine again."
 
Where are they launching from to have dirt to land on at the downrange the booster will be at?
If their Fu is very strong it could land on a ship.

M
 
From that link:

"The second burn will occur before the rocket hovers over the Atlantic Ocean, where it will deploy 25-foot landing legs and then softly land in the water for pickup. If successful, Musk said he wants to send the same Falcon 9 back to space and have it return once more, but this time use those landing legs to settle back down on firm ground."

Until I hear that directly from Elon, I'm skeptical since the sea was extremely rough at landing and possible damage from that combined with salt water on and inside a booster designed to land on land would make me very reluctant to be the next payload on that booster. This may have been a misinterpertation by CNN (after all, this is CNN) with "same booster" being confused with "same type of booster" and the "if successful" part only referring to successfully landing on the water at a velocity that would have survived a ground landing. However, it could very well be they can refurbish it well enough and reuse it, going to the extra expense of doing that just to be able to claim they've reused a booster.


I watched part of the after launch press conference on NASA TV and if that's what CNN is basing their story on they weren't listening carefully. Musk was explaining why reuse would be economical for the Falcon as compared to the Shuttle. Basically he said that the plan was to eventually land it on land, replace the consumables and fly it again much like you would an airplane. I'm pretty sure he wasn't referring to reusing that particular booster. The other SpaceX rep at the conference was asked where they would land it and he said they were looking for a spot and the Cape was a likely choice. Their assumption was that the safety considerations for landing would be no more than for launching and they already do that there.
 
I think SpaceX will at least have one more launch with the landing in water. They are a very responsible and safety minded company and do not want to ruin their reputation.

Just my two cents.
 
You can see just the center engine burning in the Falcon 9 booster landing in the video I linked to. This statement from Musk also makes me think that only that center engine is used in the retro braking manuever, too:

"Initial recovery test will be a water landing. First stage continue in ballistic arc and execute a velocity reduction burn before it enters atmosphere to lessen impact. Right before splashdown, will light up the engine again."

From what I have read, the initial burn for re entry uses 3 engines to slow it to sub sonic, then a single engine burn is used to make the final landing.
 
From what I have read, the initial burn for re entry uses 3 engines to slow it to sub sonic, then a single engine burn is used to make the final landing.
I'd love to read a detailed description of their braking and recovery sequence, but I haven't found one. Do you or anyone else know of one?
 
Ok, I'll say it.

That video footage looks totally CGI.

It's really hard to view it as "real" - the lighting especially, but also the flame, smoke, smoothness, the landscape/background (especially the cows), etc. I know some of this is a function of the camera's motion relative to the rocket's motion (I'm assuming this was shot from a quadcopter or some sort?). And I'm NOT claiming that it's a hoax or anything. It's just interesting, with the level of film technology/effects these days, how we can see so much in movies that absolutely looks real when it's anything but, and conversely how we sometimes question or disbelieve footage that is real. I just know that when I look at that video, my brain immediately says, "Fake!".

I'd LOVE to see this in person (or "for real").

s6
 
Ok, I'll say it.

That video footage looks totally CGI.

It's really hard to view it as "real" - the lighting especially, but also the flame, smoke, smoothness, the landscape/background (especially the cows), etc. I know some of this is a function of the camera's motion relative to the rocket's motion (I'm assuming this was shot from a quadcopter or some sort?). And I'm NOT claiming that it's a hoax or anything. It's just interesting, with the level of film technology/effects these days, how we can see so much in movies that absolutely looks real when it's anything but, and conversely how we sometimes question or disbelieve footage that is real. I just know that when I look at that video, my brain immediately says, "Fake!".

I'd LOVE to see this in person (or "for real").

s6

Like everything about the space program, the quality and ambition have declined since the days when they faked the moon landings. Back then, they knew how to fake! None of this cheap CGI fakery! :wink:
 
I just know that when I look at that video, my brain immediately says, "Fake!".
People have made the same comment on YouTube for the other SpaceX launches. I suspect it's primarily because of the viewing angles and image fidelity combined with the subject matter, a huge, hovering rocket, typically seen before only in CGI, but it's something that's now possible using what SpaceX used: small, lightweight HD cameras recording very high quality video mounted on an RC multicopter, the ground-based pilot using FPV video flight control via video goggles showing the SD video transmitted from the multicopter. If you're into RC aircraft these days, you know that it's only the subject matter that's unusual since even private individuals can now afford this tech. Just an example video of civilian use I could find quickly, not even close to being the best I've seen:

[video=youtube;emN3pxqkl68]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emN3pxqkl68[/video]

(music in the video has gaps, probably due to copyright issues)

Another one with proper music track:

[video=youtube;n5pazsq3Qto]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5pazsq3Qto[/video]

And another, actual speed:

[video=vimeo;23103803]https://vimeo.com/23103803[/video]
 
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I'd love to read a detailed description of their braking and recovery sequence, but I haven't found one. Do you or anyone else know of one?

You can probably find the relevant information on nasaspaceflight.com/forums . The method is actually pretty old in concept-- it's called "boost back" recovery.

The rocket lifts off from Cape Canaveral, and ascends out of the sensible atmosphere and arcs out over the Atlantic as it accelerates the upper stage and payload towards orbit. Then the first stage shuts its engines down and stages normally like any other expendable rocket.

Now, once the stages separate and the upper stage engine ignites and continues on with the payload towards orbit, the first stage continues on a ballistic trajectory identical to how our model rockets continue on a ballistic trajectory after burnout, coasting to apogee as it decelerates due to gravity and then arcs back over toward the ocean... it begins to accelerate as it's now falling back toward Earth, specifically the ocean below. Normally the stage would fall, gaining speed, but as it reenters the sensible atmosphere, aerodynamic drag rapidly slows it down to terminal velocity, usually a couple hundred miles an hour, for an ocean impact. This is how all the Saturns and Gemini's (and all other expendable rockets) flew. The only difference with the shuttle boosters is that they deployed drogue chutes to stabilize the falling booster, and then deployed recovery parachutes which then dereefed in stages to slow the booster, detonated a linear shaped charge to sever the nozzle, and then soft-landed in the ocean. The boosters also continued to fly basically along their pre-determined ballistic trajectory that the shuttle was on when the boosters burned out and separated.

Boost-back, on the other hand, changes the equation some. The first stage shuts down and the rocket stages normally, as before... the second stage departs with the payload, and now the first stage maneuvers tail-first (in the direction of its ballistic flight path trajectory) and reignites some of its rocket engines. Remember that now the stage is empty, since most of the propellants (except the residuals in the tanks and the extra propellants carried for the boost-back and landing requirements) has been burnt off on ascent... so the stage weighs a small fraction of its mass at liftoff... The engine thrust basically performs a "retro burn" to kill the forward velocity, so the rocket begins to drop essentially "straight down" due to gravity... The rocket then accelerates back toward the landing site (in this case, the launch site). Basically, the rocket puts itself back on a ballistic arc trajectory that would drop it near the desired landing site. The engines, having imparted the necessary velocity to put the rocket on this ballistic arc to the landing site, then shut down. The rocket "coasts" toward the landing site, arcing up through apogee and then gaining speed as it falls back toward the landing site.

Once the rocket is approaching the landing site, it's falling forward at whatever velocity, and of course falling back down toward Earth. The landing engine is then ignited at the proper time, to decelerate the rocket and slow it down for a soft landing. The rocket decelerates as it gets closer to the ground, acquires the landing site location beacons that guide it to the soft landing in the proper spot, and then it enters a hover (or near hover) under the thrust of the rocket engine and gently descends at the proper descent rate, steering itself down under terminal guidance to the landing pad, and touches down, shutting down its rocket engine.

This type of recovery has been proposed a few times for different vehicles, even back during the proposals for shuttle, like SERV...

Now, the PROBLEM is, at staging, the rocket is going very fast... part of that velocity vector is UP as the rocket is climbing toward space, but a significant part of it is FORWARD MOTION (downrange) AWAY from the launch site. The most IDEAL way to do a vertical landing on land recovery of the stage would be to have the rocket reignite its engines, decelerate, begin falling toward the landing site, and then enter the hover under rocket engine power at the proper time, and soft land. Ideally, the landing site would be almost in the same spot that the stage would ballistically impact were it to land totally unpowered after staging, like an expendable stage. This requires the least amount of propellant and least amount of maneuvering and guidance accuracy from the stage's recovery systems. Returning to the launch site for recovery means you have to burn the rocket engines long enough with sufficient thrust to brake the stage velocity from liftoff to burnout back basically to zero forward (downrange) velocity, at which point it's falling more or less straight down, then accelerate BACK toward the landing site with sufficient velocity to put it on a trajectory that will intersect the landing site. The rocket basically goes back into an unpowered coast toward the landing site, then has to reignite the engine AGAIN for deceleration, hover, and landing.

If you can land along the nominal flight path for the stage AFTER staging, you save all these fuel-consuming maneuvers requiring precision guidance. You also have the stage on a safe flight path so that if anything goes wrong, the stage simply splashes down in the ocean somewhere near the impact point if the stage were simply expendable.

With the boost-back principle, if the stage decelerates correctly and then enters a ballistic flight path back towards the launch site, and THEN has some sort of guidance failure, well, you've put a spent rocket stage still containing enough fuel for deceleration and landing on a ballistic path for INHABITED LAND... (IOW, the Florida coast). If the stage burned short or suffered an engine failure before getting on the correct landing site intersection trajectory, it will land "short"-- IOW, splash down just off the coast of Florida somewhere fairly close to the launch site. If, however, the stage suffered some sort of guidance or control (GNC) malfunction that caused it to burn too long, it would LAND "LONG", IOW *PAST* the landing site, which is to say, somewhere *inland* (west) of the Cape Canaveral landing site... If the stage then malfunctioned to the point that the engine didn't reignite for the terminal deceleration, hover, and soft landing, you could potentially have a spent rocket stage crashing into Orlando... and it'd look awfully bad to have a spent booster dropping in the middle of Disney World...

IMHO, They should keep working on the concept, but come up with some sort of concept like a floating oil platform for the stages to land on out in the Atlantic, so that IF something goes wrong, it simply splashes down out there in empty ocean instead of "somewhere in east-central Florida"...

And while I'm sure they'd have range safety systems to blow the stage up if it were malfunctioning to the point it was unsure where it'd land, that really doesn't gain you much if it malfunctions and is going to "land long"... you blow the stage up, but guess what-- now you have a million pieces of stage scrap metal on a ballistic path to impact in the same area... probably worse than just taking your chances of getting hit by the whole, intact stage, as the damage would be much more widespread... Remember the debris footprint from Columbia's breakup across several states?? Wouldn't be that bad, but bad enough... it's acknowledged that it was a miracle nobody on the ground got killed from Columbia's debris impacting the ground... the areas the debris impacted are relatively sparsely inhabited, by and in large... east-central Florida, on the other hand, is more heavily populated...

Later! OL JR :)
 
IMHO, They should keep working on the concept, but come up with some sort of concept like a floating oil platform for the stages to land on out in the Atlantic, so that IF something goes wrong, it simply splashes down out there in empty ocean instead of "somewhere in east-central Florida"...
That's the kind of detailed planning they never seem to widely release probably because it's proprietary internal planning or, at least, I've never found it. What you describe makes safety sense, and would be logical during development, but their goal is return to launch site to reduce as much as possible the turn-around costs.

This is the most detailed description I've found:

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/201...ing-legs-plan-first-stage-recovery-ambitions/
 
Here's a three year old video of their concept for a fully reusable launch system:

[video=youtube;sSF81yjVbJE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSF81yjVbJE[/video]
 
Here's a three year old video of their concept for a fully reusable launch system:

[video=youtube;sSF81yjVbJE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSF81yjVbJE[/video]

Decent CGI, but not as good as the first one posted.
(they forgot to add cows for a sense of "reality")

s6
 
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