Being intentionally Unhelpful.

"Well said." Really?

He considers it a "cesspool," and he's added to it considerably.

foamy said:

"Well said." Really?

He considers it a "cesspool," and he's added to it considerably.

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I re-read the post twice. I don't see any mention of "cesspool". I responded to the post as written, without including any notions external to the message he presented.

Post #21.

And sorry, LW, we're going to have to disagree on this one.

foamy said:

Post #21.

And sorry, LW, we're going to have to disagree on this one.

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We are not disagreeing, we are talking apples and oranges. I responded to the content in post #31 - alone. Perhaps the content in post #21 makes it difficult for you to isolate the information in post #31, but I can.

I am not saying you are wrong, rather, that we are including different information in our assessment.

This reminds me of the time I served on the jury for a tort case. When the judge told us to disregard an unsubstantiated health issue, I seem to have been the only person on the jury who could actually do that -- assess the case based on the evidence within the scope of deliberation, and disregard any concepts outside of that scope.

foamy said:

"Well said." Really?

He considers it a "cesspool," and he's added to it considerably.

Click to expand...

Doug

.

If you are honestly asking for help then; I suggest that you search before posting.
Allot of the questions have been asked before.
People grow tired of having to weed through 600 posts on the same topic.

Now that's a waste of bandwidth!

As for people not will to share ideas; some have been fooled by others that have taken advantage of their generosity.
To profit on E-bay.


JD

foamy said:

"Well said." Really?

He considers it a "cesspool," and he's added to it considerably.

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To be specific, he doesn't consider the forum a cesspool. He just considers a high percentage of the posts in "watering hole" to be irrelevant to his interest in rocketry.

• "The watering hole can also 95% percent of the time be called the cess pool instead."

Not sure why you're so upset about this but I genuinely hope that it passes. It doesn't seem to be constructive to be so upset about an offhand comment from a user about a section of the forum he finds irrelevant.

Speaking for myself, I find more useful information in and amongst the chatter over here on TRF than any other online resource that i am aware of, especially in MPR and HPR. Some of us don't have local rocketeers to get together with and we're usually trying to figure out things on our own and to learn from the experiences of others. Sometimes there is snark, and generally that can be discarded - after observing the group for a few weeks I'm sure that people can figure out who is helpful and who is not. I, myself, have given a bit of sarcasm in my time here - sometimes it is taken the wrong way and can be considered unhelpful. My apologies.

The "Yard Sale" section on here alone is a useful resource. i have bought a number of things that I would not be able to get otherwise (including my spectacular L2 Doug Stout ARCAS). I shudder to think what the items I have purchased would have cost me on eBay. I don't see any other active trading system for rocket equipment other than at a launch (and those are pretty rare).

Finally, I want to take a minute to thank the people who have taken the time to do up beautiful build threads that I keep as ongoing reference: blackjack/Crazy Jim, kayee for the ARCAS, Quantara and his builds, Iter, delta22/Boris Katan, gdjsky01, Green Jello (wherever you are) and JumpJet / John Boren (to name a few off the top of my head). I hope that we continue to have people who contribute to the forum and I hope that the weak offerings i have provided assistance to someone, somewhere.

In the end we're all in this together, we might as well be nice to one another while we're at it even if we don't agree on everything. We all do agree that rockets are cool. Hopefully we don't lose sight of that.

LW Bercini said:

This reminds me of the time I served on the jury for a tort case. When the judge told us to disregard an unsubstantiated health issue, I seem to have been the only person on the jury who could actually do that -- assess the case based on the evidence within the scope of deliberation, and disregard any concepts outside of that scope.

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Perhaps that is because most of us realize that life does not exist in a bubble as defined by the judge and lawyers. Once information enters in it needs to be processed. To deliberately ignore something you know when making a decision is a lie. Only one reason I should never serve on a jury...

JDcluster said:

If you are honestly asking for help then; I suggest that you search before posting.
Allot of the questions have been asked before.
People grow tired of having to weed through 600 posts on the same topic.

Now that's a waste of bandwidth!


JD

Click to expand...

Whilst that is a fair argument on other forums. On here searching can often be a tedious task.

TRF is extremely cluttered in my opinion and yes it is largely because people start a build thread, then start another thread to ask questions, rather than containing it all within 1. Also many people don't even bother with the build threads, look at threads like 'what did you do rocket wise today', it's one huge communal build thread...what a terrible idea!! You try sifting through that for information or photos relevant to your query, then you'll understand why many simply can't be bothered to search.

It's already happened to some extent on here, but nowhere near where it needs to be. Sticky threads! Many other forums have endless sticky threads and even dedicated 'locked' tutorial threads and sections contributed by members (I have done this myself), that often covers the most asked about topics and how to's. I can think of 100's of these rocketry related tutorials we could and SHOULD have on here, that would save us seeing a lot of the same questions and threads popping up all the time.



Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

Now I think about it. There are a number of apogee videos which are useful (if a little too long winded) and cover many questions. Surely adding those to the site wouldn't be too much of a stretch, what with the advertising it would provide them.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

Luke said:

Whilst that is a fair argument on other forums. On here searching can often be a tedious task.

TRF is extremely cluttered in my opinion and yes it is largely because people start a build thread, then start another thread to ask questions, rather than containing it all within 1. Also many people don't even bother with the build threads, look at threads like 'what did you do rocket wise today', it's one huge communal build thread...what a terrible idea!! You try sifting through that for information or photos relevant to your query, then you'll understand why many simply can't be bothered to search.

It's already happened to some extent on here, but nowhere near where it needs to be. Sticky threads! Many other forums have endless sticky threads and even dedicated 'locked' tutorial threads and sections contributed by members (I have done this myself), that often covers the most asked about topics and how to's. I can think of 100's of these rocketry related tutorials we could and SHOULD have on here, that would save us seeing a lot of the same questions and threads popping up all the time.



Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

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If it wasn't for the What Did You Do Today thread I would never post anything about my builds. Check it, I have never posted one...yet. Too much like fileing a book report in school and I never did that, either, and my grades prove that. There's nothing anybody could learn from what I do and that is use the accumulated knowledge from others here, I got nothing new. Plus I'm a "binge builder", when the mood strikes me then I can have as many as 5 or more going on at the same time like right now, many in various stages of construction.

However I do plan on a thread for a 4" level 2 rocket, got a couple of ideas for it I haven't seen here and when the time comes there will definitely be a thread for my 3rd level rocket...hopefully this year

LW Bercini said:

We are not disagreeing, we are talking apples and oranges.

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That's true to an extent. In #21 the poster claims to not frequent the Watering Hole, dismissing it as a "cess pool," and then goes on to rail about the complainers (kind'a like the pot calling the kettle black), while displaying a clear lack of knowledge of what's going on and the current state of affairs.

In the second post, the poster goes on to cheerlead one entity (which is fine) and in almost the same breath, denigrates another entity and it's members with utter contempt and a hearty "F-that." Which, I don't know why the poster considered it necessary to do that when the affronted party had no bearing or place in the conversation whatsoever.

It was made abundantly clear what he thinks about "the site that starts with a Y." And that's fine too, though I might suggest he refrain from posting after Happy Hour or take his meds as prescribed. That, and using larger than normal type is the equivalent of shouting on the internet and if he wasn't shouting—he was certainly speaking loudly. All of which tells me that he is as at home in the "cesspool" as anywhere else on the forum—despite his claims to the contrary.

LW, my error was quoting your agreement in the second post. The "Y" reference and insults didn't register with you and as it did with me and some others. No worries. My reaction was pretty much a "knee jerk" and I apologize for casting any aspersion on you.

Cheers!

Foamy,

I do appreciate your candor. No offense taken.

Clear skies to you!

Luke said:

Whilst that is a fair argument on other forums. On here searching can often be a tedious task.

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So true. The rocketry forum is a discussion venue, not a wiki. It is not architected for a topical search, nor is there content management (AKA "farming") that ensures content is pertinent to that topic and only that topic, and that there are clean links for cross-referencing.

The Forum's search feature works better for the long-time members since they already have a lot of historical context they can use to mentally filter their searches. But for a new person, it is almost a waste of time.

Mind you, I am not denigrating the Forum's search feature. I am just reminding folks that the Forum is not specifically set up for topical search the way other web sites are.

To give the dead horse another hearty smack I still don't see the "cesspool" comment. Maybe it was edited out. I would like to find gdjsky01's cesspool so I could muck around in it with the hope of finding one of his really cool rockets. There was a really sick dude who used that term over on YORF referring to a G.H. comment, but that is just joining up with the Banned, and their cesspool is more like that Black thing on Star Trek Next Gen that killed Tasha Yar.

luke strawwalker said:

Part of being new is figuring out who to ignore...
IMHO... OL JR

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Too funny and Touche'!

Luke said:

I've noticed as I begin to use the forum more and more, a number of people who go out of their way to be distinctly unhelpful.

Whether it be asking questions and the response of "figure it out yourself" or even so far as private messages suggesting I have no business in trying to further my skills, as it is best left to those with years of experience.

The latest example of this I've noticed is where somebody posted pictures of a 'tool' or piece of equipment they'd designed, I liked it, and asked if they'd mind me copying it. When I go back to look for reference, they've deleted all of their posts and pictures in that thread. Weird - and I can only assume they didn't want someone benefitting.

I'm not naming names. I just simply don't get it! I use this forum for help, advice & reference. I know (especially for you guys in the States) a big part of it is community and social. So I just don't understand people who join a forum aimed at offering help & advice, but then take the attitude of "I know but I'm not telling you". It's bizarre. Fin.

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Luke, sorry to hear this. All I can offer you is this - 99% of the people you will meet here are the best and most helpful folks you'll ever hope to run across. I've been helped all the way from single use F and G motors in cardboard rockets to my Level 3 completion. I've never run across anything like what your describing. So, I guess just ignore the 1%. Trust me, most of these guys would offer up anything they can to help and I'm not the only one around here who could tell you story after story about stand-up guys from the forum.

LW Bercini said:

Oh yeah! B14s rocked.

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Absolutely! I talked with someone from Estes about it at a NARAM and he said that the extra step of drilling the grain core extension is the reason it hasn't made a comeback.

Luke said:

The latest example of this I've noticed is where somebody posted pictures of a 'tool' or piece of equipment they'd designed, I liked it, and asked if they'd mind me copying it. When I go back to look for reference, they've deleted all of their posts and pictures in that thread. Weird - and I can only assume they didn't want someone benefitting.

Click to expand...

I don't know the specifics, but could they have done that because they received so much positive feedback that they decided to make and sell the item?

Something to remember, when it comes to "search before asking" is that a lot of time someone new to the hobby doesn't know what question to ask! We have a lot of specific terminology we use, and if you don't know the terminology, or how to describe what you're trying to do, then trying to phrase the question the right way can be difficult, at best.

As an example, I'm a developer by trade. There are times where I run into a problem that I need to do a search on, to find how to resolve it. Most of the time, I just need a small piece of info, and it's easy to phrase it the right way.

However, I've had several times where I spend two days trying to figure out how to phrase the search, so that I get the information I need.

What's obvious to someone with experience is far from obvious to someone who has none.

Rather than an unhelpful "did you try a search?" answer, let someone else answer it. Or, do a search and post the results of the search for them.

-Kevin

To add to everything that's been said, report report report.

See something, say something. The mods, Troj and I need help. When you see someone being rude, not helpful, or just not a good steward of rocketry then report them so we can review as a team.