Electronic Tracking - how can I get started?

I have been researching some options for tracking my rocket via GPS or RF. I currently own 2 StrattoLogger SL100 altim's and a Jolly logic altimeter-2. The 2 SL100's are for dual deployment purposes and the Jolly-2 is for projects like my G80 minimum diameter rockets.
Now to the point: I want to start flying high and I live on the east coast. My two options are with SEVRA club and MDRA club the latter having a 16,000' clearance. Obviously I want to recover my rockets and also it would be great to track actual flight data in 3D.
Getting into the flight computer tracking stuff is complicated and I have no one to mentor me, so I'm reaching out to those who have experience that could suggest a good way to get started.

My Questions:
1. can you recommend a comprehensive guide to newbies?
2. Is TeleMetrum the way to go? are there cheaper and equally reliable methods?
3. Must I acquire a HAM radio license?
4. Are there ways of finding a lost rocket without GPS but maybe some radio frequency antenna
5. Can I just buy a Garmin (or other) GPS device and track that on a computer?
6. How many parts and components does a complete tracking unit package consist of?
...and
7. Is there a place other rocketeers sell their used systems?
I appreciate your feedback.

I build the GPS of Derek using Xbee, I then build the eggfinder using 915 mhz, both don't need HAM license, but they don't cut it if you need distance. I finally make the plunge and purchase a Telemetrum and I'm in the proceed to get my license. Not only the Telemetrum give you GPS, but if for some reason the GPS don't get info, you can use a cheap $ 60 radio and a the yagi you use with the telemetrum and find the telemetrum by his radio signal.

I don't regret my cheap Derek and Eggfinder stuff, but i ill use them only on low flight.

Gerard - when you say low - what kind of ceiling are you talking and what kind of distance for tracking works in your experience?

Area66 said:

I build the GPS of Derek using Xbee, I then build the eggfinder using 915 mhz, both don't need HAM license, but they don't cut it if you need distance. I finally make the plunge and purchase a Telemetrum and I'm in the proceed to get my license. Not only the Telemetrum give you GPS, but if for some reason the GPS don't get info, you can use a cheap $ 60 radio and a the yagi you use with the telemetrum and find the telemetrum by his radio signal.

I don't regret my cheap Derek and Eggfinder stuff, but i ill use them only on low flight.

Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmm, Have you tried a patch antenna Gerard on the receiving end? I suspect it would improve the reception. Also, the GPS will lose lock under acceleration and will regain it before or at apogee. Also, stay away from metallic paints. I found out with the 400Mhz APRS trackers the spray can metallic
paints suck up the Rf and attenuates it. Don't put a tracker inside of a metallic painted rocket. The reception range will go down dramatically. Sure if you tape it to the apogee shockcord so it gets deployed at altitude should be O.K. as long as the apogee charge(s) work.

Lazlo, a Ham Technician license will open up more options but the cheapest GPS tracker out there is the EggFinder: https://www.eggtimerrocketry.com/page21.php Yeah, you have to build it, use a laptop with it or add a $6.00 Bluetooth receiver to it and use an Android device/phone to track the rocket with this app.
(You don't need a Ham license for this device.)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.frankdev.rocketlocator

This is the cheapest GPS tracker out there. Derek's device might be cheaper if one scrounges up the parts and builds it.

With a ham license, you can learn about fox hunting with the non-directional beacons, attenuators and Yagi antennas but you will have to make
a hefty investment in the equipment. Look up Walston trackers: https://www.walstonretrieval.com/main.htm

APRS tracking on the Ham Bands has been around and long time but it too takes a hefty investment. The pinnacle is a Beeline GPS tracker:

https://www.bigredbee.com/zc139/ind...ducts_id=182&zenid=l9hkeq39ssj6r0f8b8sivi4u52

A Kenwood D72a, Yaesu VX-8GR or FT1DR radio interfaced into a handheld GPS like a Garmin 78, 60, 60CS, 60CSX. The handheld GPS must have a round port
serial socket to access. Out of the radios above the D72 is best suited. You can track the APRS tracker and have a map in hand. The only problem here
is you add up the cost of all this stuff and APRS tracking is $$$$$. If you price a Walston system, you could almost buy all the stuff you'd need for GPS tracking.

To use the Altus Metrum devices you have to have a ham callsign. Sooooooooo, I think $90.00 for an EggFinder is pretty cheap to start. If you go the Ham route, you can learn a lot about tracking in studying for the Tech license. The radio skills you can learn can go a long way.
Egg Finder thread you might want to read is here: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?62624-The-Eggfinder-A-Low-Cost-GPS-RF-Tracking-System Kurt

ksaves2 said:

To use the Altus Metrum devices you have to have a ham callsign.

Click to expand...

no you don't , you just need a call sign if you want to program the altimeter by radio, if you do it tue USB you don't need to put any Call sign anywhere, actually you better not as it make the packets longer to transmit.

I am FAR from an expert on this subject, but I can give you advice on what works for me. I found that this system is great if what you are interested in is tracking rockets. Just tracking rockets - no HAM license, no other "hobby" to get into and learn about, no complications, no laptops in the field, etc. If all you want to do is find your rocket after flying high, I can very much recommend this way to go about it.

Start with the BigRedBee 900 transmitter and receiver. Get the receiver that has the LCD display so you don't need to use a laptop. This is NOT the cheapest way to go, nor is it the smallest/lightest, but it's an integrated system that works great, is small/light enough for my needs (including minimum diameter 38mm rockets), and I think a great value. Then get a cheap/used handheld GPS unit (tons to be found on E(vil)bay from Garmin et al) - no need for anything fancy or expensive; all you need is something that allows you to plug in a coordinate and then walk/drive/whatever to that spot (I do find an "electronic compass" handy, but it is not necessary).

On flight day:
- Turn the units on; wait until you get a good satellite/GPS lock (normally a minute or so max).
- Stuff the transmitter into the rocket - usually just wrapping it in bubble wrap and sticking it into the nose cone (secured) is all you need.
- Launch
- Keep an eye on your rocket, but if you lose sight of it, watch the LCD screen on your receiver.
- If all is well, you will get a signal from your rocket every five seconds.
- When the coordinates stop changing, your rocket has landed and the coordinates on your screen is where you will find the landing spot.
- Plug those coordinates into your handheld GPS unit.
- Set your GPS handheld to "find location" or "navigate" and let it guide you to the magic location - note that you are NOT carrying a big, unwieldy antenna or a laptop, you are NOT wearing earphones, and that you can actually look around and pay attention to your surroundings ("hey, look at that cool bug on the ground!", or "whoah, I almost stepped in some horse#*@%!")
- Pick up your rocket, head back to the flight line, stuff another motor in there, and repeat.
- Feel much satisfaction, joy, peace of mind, and comfort.
- Buy bigger motors because you WILL want to start flying even higher.

Works for me. Might work for you too.

s6

Area66 said:

no you don't , you just need a call sign if you want to program the altimeter by radio, if you do it tue USB you don't need to put any Call sign anywhere, actually you better not as it make the packets longer to transmit.

Click to expand...

Ummmmm, Last I saw for the Telemetrum, Apogee won't sell it unless one submits a valid callsign for the shipping address. The Tele Mega is on the
70cm band also. Try and order one and see what happens. I don't know if the rules have been changed. I don't think so.

Stealth 6's description is valid but if one has a completely self contained system that automatically updates the position one
can be in better shape. Reason? If one puts the "last known position point" in a handheld mapping GPS, it will take one to the last position. If the rocket
lands within three miles from the starting point, the final resting place will likely be within "eyeshot" from the last transmitted position point one inputted manually into their mapping GPS. Soooo, if one gets out there to the last reported position and no rocket, I hope they carried their receiving station with them to try to get a new fix to input into their mapping GPS. This should only be an issue if the rocket lands a fair distance away from the launch point and the final received position might be quite a distance away from the landing place. Carrying a D72 interfaced to a mapping Garmin GPS (with APRS) one stands a chance to be in range to pickup a new position packet that is automatically updated into the mapping GPS. Nice but pricey.

I was working the economy angle. RDF tracking is too much work and GPS is soooo much easier. As mentioned, if one already has an Andoid device/phone
a $6.00 B/T module to the EggFinder receiver will put them in business to bond to the phone/device and track on a map with a free app. A $15.00 patch antenna on the receive end can help with reception. This is analogous to the APRS system I described above. It is portable to carry out to the landing zone if one needs to try to reacquire a signal and a heck of a lot cheaper than an APRS tracking setup. One carries their Andoid device and the B/T modified EggFinder receiver.

The 900Mhz Beeline GPS is a nice turnkey start for someone who doesn't want to mess with kits.

I use a laptop locked in my vehicle with a magmount antenna to record flights for later playback and save the plots for .kml use and have a portable option to take out to the rocket landing site. I'm not going to give up my 3 Beeline units. They do have onboard memory but again they are pricey. Not as bad losing a $70.00 device as opposed to a $260.00 one. GPS trackers don't survive lawn darting. It is nice to have an economical option when flight conditions
suggest its use. Kurt

ksaves2 said:

Ummmmm, Last I saw for the Telemetrum, Apogee won't sell it unless one submits a valid callsign for the shipping address. The Tele Mega is on the
70cm band also. Try and order one and see what happens. I don't know if the rules have been changed. I don't think so.

Click to expand...

You need a license to comply with the FCC, but you don't need a Callsign to operate the Telemetrum or the Telemega


Apogee is not the only place to order it. My statement is correct, you don't need a callsign unless you want to program the altimeter by radio. If you ever have use one you will know what I means : in the programming you have a place to insert the call sign, you need to insert it only if you want to program by radio or have the callsign transmit with each packet.

Interesting, I was under the impression that any Ham-band telemetry device had to transmit the call sign periodically, using something other than data modulation (i.e. CW). Maybe Keith or Bdale can shed some light on this...

Come up to BattlePark this fall. We also have a 16,000 waiver and we have a Walston tracker for club use. No Ham licenses required. I have been designated the keeper of the tracker. I would be glad to get you started and give you some tips and tricks on it's use.

At the last launch I had a rocket disappear and no one saw anything. All we knew was several people heard the apogee event. As it turned out, I would have gotten the rocket back because it landed right near the road in plain view, but the tracker lead us right to it about a mile from the launch pad.

Handeman said:

Come up to BattlePark this fall. We also have a 16,000 waiver and we have a Walston tracker for club use. No Ham licenses required.

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That's it, it's what I'm doing here too, I will get my license; who said the owner of the rocket need an Ham licence, only the operator need one. One operator per club should do the trick no ?

According to FCC guidelines an amateur radio station needs to transmit call sign every 10 minutes and at the end of transmission. Perhaps Gerard means that you do not need to enter a call sign into the Telemetrum unless you plan to transmit APRS data over the radio? Also, I don't know what the call sign transmission requirements are for amateur radio operators in Canada.

ksaves2 said:

Soooo, if one gets out there to the last reported position and no rocket, I hope they carried their receiving station with them to try to get a new fix to input into their mapping GPS.

Click to expand...

Noted, and good point. That said, the BRB900 receiver is small and easy to carry with you (really it's just a handheld unit) so getting a new/updated lock enroute is generally not a problem. I always carry mine with me when I head out for "the long walk".

Also, it should be noted that I have NOT flown super high, and have NOT used this system to track anything that lands very far away (like 3 plus miles or somesuch). My experience has been up to around 8000' apogee and landing less than 1 mile away.

s6

What I means is the Telemetrum will work even if you don't setup a Callsign. Is it legal, I don't know but it work.

timro said:

Also, I don't know what the call sign transmission requirements are for amateur radio operators in Canada.

Click to expand...

Honestly, no one care here, Industry Canada don't check those thing, at worst they gone give a verbal warning. Still I'm in the process to get my license.

ksaves2 said:

GPS trackers don't survive lawn darting.

Click to expand...

Let's talk about it, from what I have seen, many darts are caused by peoples who forget to turnout their altimeter. With a Telemetrum it's very hard to forget to turn it on as you will have no green light on your PC or Android Phone like I use. I will never launch a $ 300 Telemetrum without a backup altimeter as redundancy.

stealth6 said:

Noted, and good point. That said, the BRB900 receiver is small and easy to carry with you (really it's just a handheld unit) so getting a new/updated lock enroute is generally not a problem. I always carry mine with me when I head out for "the long walk".

Also, it should be noted that I have NOT flown super high, and have NOT used this system to track anything that lands very far away (like 3 plus miles or somesuch). My experience has been up to around 8000' apogee and landing less than 1 mile away.
s6

Click to expand...

I think Greg Clark at BRB would have been interested if licensing wasn't an issue with the 70cm band trackers. They only put out 12mW in the low powered version and he said he couldn't legally sell to non-Hams. He said he tried to explore this with the powers that be and it was nixed. That was the impetus for him to develop the 900Mhz tracker. Makes sense. If he could sell it to non-Hams why go through the trouble?

Gerard is probably right about the fact is Industry Canada (or even the FCC in the US) going to take the time to track down a low powered emitter? I doubt it. But if I gated the 1/sec position report from an EggFinder to a 2/sec APRS position packet on 144.390 with a digipeater nearby, my rear would be in hot water in a very short period of time. :gavel:

There was a long standing argument about the legality of the Walston and Communications Specialists RDF trackers on the 1.25m band
awhile back but they're still out there.

The major point I want to make is there is an economical GPS tracker available now and I bet there will be other options in the future.
Kurt

Don't get me wrong, cheap 915 mhz GPS tracker have their place , I own few of those, I start to talk about the Telemetrum because the OP mention it, and by far it's the best product on the market, it come with the price of course. The AltusDroid software is well done too, Rocket Locator will not be bad if it was not crashing all the time.

Area66 said:

Let's talk about it, from what I have seen, many darts are caused by peoples who forget to turnout their altimeter. With a Telemetrum it's very hard to forget to turn it on as you will have no green light on your PC or Android Phone like I use. I will never launch a $ 300 Telemetrum without a backup altimeter as redundancy.

Click to expand...

Ematch or shockcord failure. True, it's not likely but I had an ematch failure in a small project. Apogee failed to come out, Main chute shockcord failed when deployed, rocket lawn darted. Tracker obliterated and altimeter survived. Downloaded 85g's when it hit. I actually missed one leg of the ematch into the terminal connector of the apogee charge and the altimeter was one that didn't give differential beeps with continuity. Same sound whether one or both circuits had continuity. This altimeter is no longer forsale out there.

Some small projects only have room for one deployment device. Kurt

ksaves2 said:

Some small projects only have room for one deployment device. Kurt

Click to expand...

in that case I will put only my Spec Comm tracker.

Area66 said:

Don't get me wrong, cheap 915 mhz GPS tracker have their place , I own few of those, I start to talk about the Telemetrum because the OP mention it, and by far it's the best product on the market, it come with the price of course. The AltusDroid software is well done too, Rocket Locator will not be bad if it was not crashing all the time.

Click to expand...

I agree with that. Very good device and I suspect the Tele Metrum would be "the unit" to use for a minimum diameter altitude record buster. Tracker and deployment in one compact device. Keith Packard mentioned they added the APRS switchable option for Hams who have the equipment and want to track in that mode. The issue there is that it can't telemeter all the realtime data it does in its native state though it can be downloaded from memory after recovery. I would have bought one if I didn't have so much tied up in other trackers. Kurt

cerving said:

Interesting, I was under the impression that any Ham-band telemetry device had to transmit the call sign periodically, using something other than data modulation (i.e. CW). Maybe Keith or Bdale can shed some light on this...

Click to expand...

We transmit the programmed call sign in the telemetry stream in accordance with applicable Part 97 FCC regulations. You can use any modulation scheme you want as long as it's documented and not encrypted. And, with APRS, we transmit the call sign using the standard APRS signaling, which is another (less efficient) digital coding scheme. No CW needed here.

Area66 said:

no you don't , you just need a call sign if you want to program the altimeter by radio, if you do it tue USB you don't need to put any Call sign anywhere, actually you better not as it make the packets longer to transmit.

Click to expand...

There is no difference in the length of the transmitted packets in "our" telemetry format. I don't know offhand if having a callsign makes APRS packets longer.

It is technically correct that you can operate our products without setting a callsign, but to do so in the US violates FCC rules.

All Altus Metrum products that include radio transmitters are designed for use under FCC Part 97 (ham radio) rules, and so require a ham license or equivalent authorization (some university teams have Part 5 experimental licenses, etc .. they know who they are!).

Because rules vary so much from country to country, and the FCC doesn't require that we police this issue, direct orders from my web site do not ask for a callsign. In Australia, for example, we believe careful selection of the operating frequency may allow operation of at least some of our products under the rules for low probability of interference devices. Knowing and complying with local radio rules is, and always must be, the responsibility of the flyer.

A couple of observations for the original poster ....

Regarding the choice between an RF "beeper" and gps, I would recommend going with the beeper. I used to make this recommendation because gps wasn't as reliable as a beeper (i.e., you might not get back a lock during flight). GPS is much more reliable now, but I'd still go with the beeper if I could use only one method. The reasons are that all other things being equal, the beeper has a longer range and a longer battery life.

I would also recommend going the HAM radio route. It might cost a bit more and take a little time for the test, but I think the economics are more favorable in the long run. With a HAM radio, you can acquire either a beeper signal or gps (or both as I do it). And, as products improve, you'll likely be able to keep using your radio. And you have a radio too!

With respect to using a HAM radio with the beeper approach, be aware that not all transmitters can be acquired by a HAM radio (I've never been able to acquire Marshall transmitters for example).

Jim

Thanks Keith, good to know.

keithp said:

We transmit the programmed call sign in the telemetry stream in accordance with applicable Part 97 FCC regulations. You can use any modulation scheme you want as long as it's documented and not encrypted. And, with APRS, we transmit the call sign using the standard APRS signaling, which is another (less efficient) digital coding scheme. No CW needed here.

Click to expand...

JimJarvis50 said:

A couple of observations for the original poster ....

(Snip for brevity's sake)

With respect to using a HAM radio with the beeper approach, be aware that not all transmitters can be acquired by a HAM radio (I've never been able to acquire Marshall transmitters for example).

Jim

Click to expand...

Jim, You try an all mode receive TH-F6A? With USB and CW modes can usually pick up most of the trackers. Or does Marshall use some sort of encoding that necessitates using "their" receiver? Kurt

ksaves2 said:

Jim, You try an all mode receive TH-F6A? With USB and CW modes can usually pick up most of the trackers.

Click to expand...

I don't know about the Marshall system, but the digital scheme used by TeleMetrum and TeleMega isn't usable by a regular amateur HT as it's using a wide (20.5) FM modulation, a fast (38400 bps) data rate and adds in pseudo random data to keep the receiver from drifting.

We switch the transmitter to narrow-band modulation to send the tone used for RDF and the APRS stuff.

ksaves2 said:

Jim, You try an all mode receive TH-F6A? With USB and CW modes can usually pick up most of the trackers. Or does Marshall use some sort of encoding that necessitates using "their" receiver? Kurt

Click to expand...

I have a VX-G3. So far as I know, it's an all mode receive. I don't know what sort of encoding Marshall might use. What I do know is that when someone is flying one of their transmitters, and I dial in the stated frequency, I can hear a pulse, but it's not sufficient for tracking. Maybe it's just a matter of checking either side of the stated frequency. Since I have access to a Marshall receiver, figuring this out hasn't been a priority. Now I'm curious and I'll check a little more next time I have the opportunity.

Jim

Laszlo said:

1. can you recommend a comprehensive guide to newbies?

Click to expand...

I don't know of one. The single most important thing about tracking is to realize it's as much art as it is science, especially if you're not using GPS.

2. Is TeleMetrum the way to go? are there cheaper and equally reliable methods?

Click to expand...

You're not really comparing apples to apples -- TeleMetrum is a tracker and a telemetry system and altimeter. I own two (TeleMetrum and TeleMega), and can tell you that I think it's The Greatest Thing Since Sliced Bread.

3. Must I acquire a HAM radio license?

Click to expand...

Depends on the frequency usage of what you purchase.

4. Are there ways of finding a lost rocket without GPS but maybe some radio frequency antenna

Click to expand...

RDF (radio direction finding). This is where you get into the art. If you go the RDF route, practice on flights where you don't need it, so you get the hang on of before you do.

5. Can I just buy a Garmin (or other) GPS device and track that on a computer?

Click to expand...

The Garmin Astro dog collars work, though based on my testing I've discovered that you need to keep them physically separate from altimeters -- I've confused more than one altimeter with them in ground testing.

6. How many parts and components does a complete tracking unit package consist of?

Click to expand...

It depends on what you buy.

Big Red Bee 70cm, you need: Tracker, Yagi and radio (but you'll still need an altimeter)
L&L Electronics, you need: Tracker & receiver (but you'll still need an altimeter)
TeleMetrum/TeleMega, you need: TeleMetrum/TeleMega, TeleDongle/TeleBT, laptop/Android tablet or phone (I use a TeleBT and Nexus 7)
AIM XTRA (I may have the wrong product, but AIM has a telemetry solution), you need: AIM XTRA, AIM BASE, laptop

That's not every option, but you get the idea.

7. Is there a place other rocketeers sell their used systems?

Click to expand...

Watch the Yard Sale here. Tracking equipment doesn't come up often.

-Kevin

" 5. Can I just buy a Garmin (or other) GPS device and track that on a computer?
The Garmin Astro dog collars work, though based on my testing I've discovered that you need to keep them physically separate from altimeters -- I've confused more than one altimeter with them in ground testing."

A fellow pointed out that it is in the FCC rules that the MURS band devices (of which frequencies the dog collars operate on) are specifically
prohibited to be operated from on aircraft. (Scroll down to the bottom) The dog trackers if I'm not mistaken must use the provided receiver
to use and don't give an altitude indication.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Use_Radio_Service

Now is the FCC going to run and track someone down? I highly doubt it as most rocket flights are relatively short in the timeframe scheme of things. Those that fly "real" high are usually so far out in the boondocks, unlikely for anyone to complain about interference. Just an
FYI as there are a fair number of flyers who have used dog trackers. Kurt

Brain dump time.

Step zero: read the Sue McMurray article. Read it again. Meditate on it. It's the most perfect tracking advice I've ever received.

I have a HAM license and GPS/RDF units from BRB (Yaesu FT-60R/VX-8GR, 5 element Yagi for RDF), ComSpec (R300-A/AT-2B), and Altus Metrum.

I find I use them with frequency given by this order, roughly:

ComSpec RDF
Altus Metrum units
BRB RDF
BRB GPS

I think the reasons the ComSpec gets used the most are twofold: battery life and durability. It's potted and in a durable plastic box; I tape one to my shock cord and go. Even with a tiny CR2032 battery, its CW pulses take much less energy to generate than the "BEEEEEP" actively generated by a BRB.

(Sidebar: Marshall, LL, and Walston also use this technique. But that's also why the receiver is expensive-- they have to heterodyne the tracker signal with another signal generated locally to make it audible. It's also why, when you listen for a CS/M/LL/W tracker on a handy-talkie, you just hear light dropouts in the static.)

If BRB sold potted units with better battery life, an impact-resistant enclosure and a more flexible antenna, I imagine I'd use them more often. (Don't get me wrong-- I still fly them, I own three. They are relegated to rockets with bays for them, though.) I know that you can get a long time on one charge with a BRB if you dial down the transmit rate and duration, but that defeats the friggin purpose-- I want that thing beeping at me once every second until I find my rocket. The longer the pause between the beeps, the longer it takes me to find it, thus leading to further battery drain and angst (two of my least favorite things).

I don't use the Altus Metrum units purely for tracking; they're usually on board for deployment and data. They cost more than a tracker, but if they die, it's because they committed suicide (and/or you hooked the wrong thing up and/or didn't charge the batteries)-- they're active participants in the flight. If I'm going stupid high and/or not too lazy, I'll dig out the laptop and do live data/tracking, but usually I just like to fly them and worry about the data later. They're unbelievably cool and well-engineered products.

Oh, and batteries. I like that I can have a stack of 9Vs and CR2032s and know I'm set for the weekend. I always forget to charge my LiPos until it's too late.

I rarely use my standalone GPS unit because (a) the expensive part is in the rocket and has no control over its own fate, (b) it likes to lose lock, (c) it guzzles battery (see previous line). But when it all works out, my God is it sexy. However, I'm just about as fast at finding rockets with an RDF beacon taped to the shock cord, so I usually don't have the patience for the GPS thing

Out at Black Rock where you lose all semblance of signal once it lands, the tradeoffs are completely different. But Sue wrote her article tracking at Black Rock, so it's definitely possible. And Jim has tracked down small parts of rockets from 100kft+. You just gotta be good at it. Practice!

Look around at the fields you fly in and see who's using what. Growing up on the west coast and going to school in the Midwest, I've seen lots and lots and lots and lots of ComSpec/RocketHunter/Walston units in use. BRBs, not as much, but I'm sure they're out there.

troj said:

Watch the Yard Sale here. Tracking equipment doesn't come up often.

Click to expand...

That's because once you own a tracker, you never, EVER want to fly without one again

(I think what happens is that the extra weight of the tracker makes the rocket fall faster and land much closer so you can find it.)

When you start flying over 3k on a regular basis, there's no better investment you can make. Figure out what is right for you and go buy one. You won't be disappointed in your investment!