Volt or no Volt?

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gdjsky01

gdjsky01

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Just sold my 10 year old V8 4x4 Tundra. Loved it. But it's a pain to park in Redondo Beach on the street, and in town I commute 40 miles a day and it got about 12 mpg with a Sharknado chasing it. But it hauled my Astronomy and Rockets around in style. I could camp in the back (It had a cap). It had a specific purpose. Rockets, Astronomy star parties, Camping. Well its gone. And that's that.

Now I still have the wife's 1999 Infinity QX-4 that I drive to rocket launches now. It's 4wd and with the seat down and a roof rack, probably can still serve as the Astro/Rocket vehicle.

I've already decided I am not getting an All Electric plugin that ONLY has batteries. I just am too afraid of the range limits. Why Electric at all? HOV lane baby. Here in SoCal HOV access is like winning the lotto (almost)! It would cut my commuting time by 1/3rd (40 minutes vs 65 one way). The Volt has 'just' enough range to make the round trip each day on its batteries. It's relatively small, and has the Gas Generator in case you run out of charge you can still motor along for 340 miles. I am not a rah rah patriot so American company or not means nothing to me. If not the Volt, it seems nothing else has all electric with that kind of range, except a Tesla. A little out of my price range. :tongue::lol:

So if I give up the whole HOV thing, then there is no point in the all electric. I can do a hybrid, gas, or diesel. So I am back to something AWD or 4wd, has decent cargo space, and gets decent mileage. Jetta TDI? Subaru Outback?

To volt or not... that is the question... probably lease a Volt, but most likely would buy anything else (my last two vehicles I owned for 10 years each).

Ideas? Thoughts? What do you drive (that is AWD or 4wd)?
 
FWIW, end of January we bought a Camry Hybrid. We just got back from a ~600 mile round trip to visit our son in Rolla, MO. Nothing quite like 40MPG at 65 - 70MPH.

As for the Volt's professed 40 mile range, remember that that's with A) a fully charged battery, and B) a battery that hasn't lost any capacity.

Personally, I don't think it has been on the market long enough for me to be interested in plunking down money on one.

-Kevin
 
I know 2 guys who own VW diesels and really like them. One is a wagon the other is a 2 door hatchback. The both say they never get below 45mpg. And the guy with the 2 door gets over 50mpg on the highway.
 
I've read about folks in California leasing Volts for really low prices like $219 a month. A car like a Volt makes sense to lease since technology will only get better and a Volt could be expensive to repair after the warranty expires. My co-worker got a Volt and he loves it. He pays less in total monthly vehicle costs now even with a more expensive car.

Have you thought about what happens when your free access to the HOV lane is cut off? At some point if people keep buying electric cars just to use the HOV lane it will get crowded.
 
My aunt owns a hybrid- it's a prius- and she gets 40-50 mpg. As far as I know she loves it. I think she does mostly local driving so ymmv. We have a 2012 Subaru outback and it gets about 25ish mpg. That's a nice car. Heated seats and all the bells and whistles

Nate
 
The Volt is a plug-in hybrid version of the Chevy Cruze. The purely electric range of the car depends strongly on the ambient temperature. In the winter in New England, the original version will only go about 20 miles on the highway before the gas engine turns on.... It costs about twice the price of the fully decked out 1.4 L turbo engine gas Cruze because of the 16 KW-hr LiPo battery pack it has because it is a plug-in hybrid, but it has the non-turbo version of the 1.4 liter engine which is why it gets good gas mileage. The gas only engine operation gets 38 mph, so in winter operations on a 60 mile commute, the gas mileage is ~57 mpg, however if you include the cost of electricity then the effective mileage drops to 34 mpg. For a 120 mile compute the gas mileage drops to ~46 mpg, but include the cost of electricity and the effective mileage drops to 36 mpg. ($4 per gallon of premium gas and $0.18 per KW-hr of electricity was used the calculations.) The actual and effective gas mileage will be better in summer when the electric range of the car doubles.

The Camry hybrid has a 2.5 L engine with a much smaller 1.6 KW-hr NiMH battery pack which is well proven. The EPA numbers are reported to be accurate or even slightly conservative, so it would appear the Camry gets slightly better mileage in the winter, and slightly lower mileage in the summer. The biggest difference are the lower purchase price of the Camry (about $10,000), much better pick up with the Camry(0-60 time in the low 7 second range versus low 9 seconds for the Volt, a larger interior in the Camry, and no reason to plug in overnight to recharge the battery.

In real world driving, I think the Camry Hybrid wins.

Bob
 
Thanks for the info. The lease is only 3 years and I don't think HOV access will go away in that time. But if it did, I am only stuck two more years. As I said 38 miles is my round trip commute. So the range in normal weather should be almost all electric. I'd be more worried about heat than cold given where a live. 90% of the time I'd be commuting. I am not trying to talk myself into it. But without HOV access I rather look at some sort of wagon.

Remember I am replacing 12 mpg. Even 20 mpg seems a lot. ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
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bobkrech said:
In real world driving, I think the Camry Hybrid wins.
Click to expand...

Something else to factor into this....we had a Cruze as a rental when LDRS was in Black Rock, and it was a small care. The Camry has a better ride, is very quiet, and a lot more roomy.

When we decided to get a hybrid, we checked out the options, including size. The Fusion hybrid wasn't an option, after I hit my head on the roof simply by sitting up straight.

Toyota has also been selling hybrids for over 10 years.

-Kevin
 
I have a 2010 Prius and would buy another. I can pack several large rockets in the back with the seat down and I get 50+MPG on the highway. The only down side is that I have to put 9 gallons of gas into it once a month.
 
The Volt base price was reduced to $35 k, add in the $7500 federal tax credit, assuming you pay that much in taxes, and that brings the net total before taxes to $27,500. Not too bad for a 90+ mpge vehicle. But you said you would look to lease, so I assume you know all that.

My Dad has one ... one can get better than 40 miles per charge if you follow the on screen coaching guide. Even in cold weather (MD), he might get no worse than 30 miles per charge. Cold is relative I suppose, but if the temp is above 20 degrees, anybody getting 20 mile per charge is probably driving it like they stole it. But you live in So Cal so the cold is not a factor.

Although they share the same chassis the Volt content and techno. is much more luxury than a Cruze.
 
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May your work put in a charging station, if they do not already have one? They may be able to get a tax break or something along those lines.

Just a thought.

Also, you may need to consider the fact that you may loose your place of employment and may have to drive further for a new job.
 
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JMZawodny said:
I have a 2010 Prius and would buy another. I can pack several large rockets in the back with the seat down and I get 50+MPG on the highway. The only down side is that I have to put 9 gallons of gas into it once a month.
Click to expand...

+1. I drive a 2010 Prius and get 47-53 mpg depending season. I have a 55 mile round trip commute that includes 8 miles of stoplights and a less than 80 mph gets you run over highway. When the time comes I will probably buy another. With the seats down it is really suprising how much you can carry too.

I wanted fuel efficient, and went with the Prius because I figured of all the mpg oriented cars at the time it had the longest history, and most cycles of improvement. Just seamed like it would have a better chance of reliability. So far so good, 64000 miles has required normal maintenance, a sets of tires, and three sets of headlights (I use bright ones and leave them on through dat driving). I live in a big pickup and SUV kind of place, so as the small thing on the road I try to be as visible as possible.

Good luck with whatever you go with. You probably won't follow the price of gas so closely soon.
 
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I'm driving an Opel Astra Diesel rental car in Europe this week. It is the same diesel that is now in the Cruze. It took me a few min to realize it was a diesel due to the smooth power delivery and 6500 RPM redline. With the 6-speed stick, this car outperforms just about every other small car I have rented lately.

Diesels are finally ready for US consumption. The exhaust doesn't even smell like a diesel, but "something else" due to the catalysts and exhaust fluids used.

I'm seriously considering a Diesel next time around...
 
gdjsky01 said:
Thanks for the info. The lease is only 3 years and I don't think HOV access will go away in that time. But if it did, I am only stuck two more years. As I said 38 miles is my round trip commute. So the range in normal weather should be almost all electric. I'd be more worried about heat than cold given where a live. 90% of the time I'd be commuting. I am not trying to talk myself into it. But without HOV access I rather look at some sort of wagon.

Remember I am replacing 12 mpg. Even 20 mpg seems a lot. ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
Click to expand...
Just don't forget to look at the fine print in the lease.

A similar $219/month lease requires $3500 down and is limited to 10K miles per year for 3 years. That's used up by commuting 40 miles a day, 5 days a week in 50 weeks a year. It also assumes a purchase price of $36650 and is subsidized by a $5020 lease rebate and a $1000 GM lease conquest rebate. At the end of the lease the car value is expected to be 57% of $36650 = $20890. That a difference of $15760 or ~$0.525 per mile.

Your out of pocket cost for 3 years is ~$11,384 after the rebates, ~$0.38 per mile. But the full non-rebated cost is $17404 or ~$0.58 per mile. At the end of the lease period you can simply walk away if you drive less than 30K mile, walk away after paying about $0.25 to $0.50 per mile over 30K (that's an additional $2,500 to $5,000 if you drove 40K miles), or you can buy the car for $20890.

Just make sure it's worth your while to get an ultra low price lease if you plan on driving more than 30K miles. A more expensive higher mileage lease or a 0% financing rate with the $7,500 federal and $1,500 CA state tax credit on an outright purchase may make more sense financially.

Bob
 
My son lives in SoCal and recently acquired a Volt specifically for the HOV sticker. He was spending 2 hours each way on the freeways riding in the vanpool vehicle but with his Volt he has cut that time down to 70-90 minutes each way.

He does miss the reading time, tho.
 
The problem with diesel cars is the price has gone through the roof due to the pollutions controls while at the same time mileage has gone down. Don't get me wrong, I love diesel vehicles. I just don't know that they make financial sense anymore for a car.

I used to drive a diesel Golf. I paid as much as $4.69 a gallon for diesel in 2008 while gasoline here never went over $4 at the time. I could get up to 44 MPG on the highway, but typical was more around 35 to 36 MPG.
 
Bob again thank you for the factual analysis. I am DID realize immediately that leasing anything with a mileage restriction less than 12k a year was likely to get me in (B$G) trouble. You should also know, I am hoping in 3 years to change my locale from SoCal to Reno NV (or maybe Flagstaff AZ). A change in locale will allow a change in vehicle strategy. So again the lifestyle here make the HOV access worth some sort of money. No. I can not quantify it. But 40 minutes a day, 200 minutes a week, 7 days total per year... it does make a difference.

If you don't live in SoCal it is hard to understand how HOV access is a 'lifestyle enhancer'.

You Prius owners. I hear you. Put the seats down and the hatchback is pretty good size. I had a tundra. I <3 me a Toyota. Its just the ... HOV... callin'

So anyone drive an AWD or 4x4 wagon/crossover that has decent storage (it just me and the wife so putting the seats down is fine) and good mileage?
 
One of my rocketry friends has a Prius; my son on the otherhand bought a Ford Fusion Hybrid. In a comparison, I'd give the Prius a "5" or "6" and the Fusion a "10."
 
gdjsky01 said:
So anyone drive an AWD or 4x4 wagon/crossover that has decent storage (it just me and the wife so putting the seats down is fine) and good mileage?
Click to expand...

Aren't those like "metal woods" and "military intelligence"? I'm sure they're out there. I hope. My Mercury Mountaineer gets 16 to 18mpg with the V6. I wish I could have afforded the Ford Flex, I think they get in the 20's. I could have gotten an Escape, but the two fat mutts would have been seriously scrunched behind the second seat (I still haul around the small minion who is too little to sit in the front yet).
And yes, I am partial to FMC. Silly, I know, but there it is.

Adrian
 
Wife wanted a hybrid, so last summer we got a Honda Insight for well under blue book. Darn nice car, she loves it, and I love the average 46-48mpg that it returns. Our gas bill is noticeably lower with this car. So, I am sold on saving money, but I'd hesitate to get a plug-in with the premiums that go with them. I am not sure the return on investment for plug-ins is there...yet.

The VW diesel cars are also great drivers; I believe there is a GTI-like one coming out later this year that is a sports car with 40+mpg highway mileage--nice.
 
My parents have a (2004) Prius and a (2005) Highlander Hybrid.

With the Prius on summer-formula gas, I get 55 mpg at speeds up to 70 MPH.

On winter formula gas (probably never used in SoCal), I typically achieve up to 51 mpg. Of course, the longer the trip, the closer I approach the maximum. And my parents average 5 mpg less than I do.

It's a great car.

The Highlander is also nice, but it only gets 25 mpg at highway speeds (it peaks at around 45 mph, with ~30 miles per gallon). Still a huge savings over a normal SUV. Apparently newer versions get better fuel economy.


EDIT: Ohh, now I realize that Toyota's sold enough cars that you no longer get HOV access.
 
Last edited:
gdjsky01 said:
Bob again thank you for the factual analysis. I am DID realize immediately that leasing anything with a mileage restriction less than 12k a year was likely to get me in (B$G) trouble. You should also know, I am hoping in 3 years to change my locale from SoCal to Reno NV (or maybe Flagstaff AZ). A change in locale will allow a change in vehicle strategy. So again the lifestyle here make the HOV access worth some sort of money. No. I can not quantify it. But 40 minutes a day, 200 minutes a week, 7 days total per year... it does make a difference.

If you don't live in SoCal it is hard to understand how HOV access is a 'lifestyle enhancer'.

You Prius owners. I hear you. Put the seats down and the hatchback is pretty good size. I had a tundra. I <3 me a Toyota. Its just the ... HOV... callin'

So anyone drive an AWD or 4x4 wagon/crossover that has decent storage (it just me and the wife so putting the seats down is fine) and good mileage?
Click to expand...
If you want a hybrid for HOV lane access, check out the Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid. https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/xv-crosstrek/special-features.html It gets 33 mpg city, 29 mpg highway, 31 mpg combined. It has 22 cubic feet of space behind the rear seat, and 52 cubic feet of cargo space with the rear seats folded down which quite good for a hatchback

The Subaru Forrester is build on the same chassis as the CrossTrek and the Impressa. The Subaru Forrester gets 32 mpg highway/24 mpg city/27 mpg combined mpg. It doesn't have a hybrid option but the cargo area is 34 cubic feet behind the rear seat, and 75 cubic feet with the rear seats folded down because it has a SUV configuration instead of a hatchback.

Bob
 
gdjsky01 said:
Thanks for the info. The lease is only 3 years and I don't think HOV access will go away in that time. But if it did, I am only stuck two more years. As I said 38 miles is my round trip commute. So the range in normal weather should be almost all electric. I'd be more worried about heat than cold given where a live. 90% of the time I'd be commuting. I am not trying to talk myself into it. But without HOV access I rather look at some sort of wagon.

Remember I am replacing 12 mpg. Even 20 mpg seems a lot. ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
Click to expand...

Remember that "all electric" means exactly that. Around here (as in New England) we worry about cold weather, but running the AC will run the batteries down in a hurry as well.
 
I recently switched from a 1999 Honda CR-V to a 2013 Nissan Leaf.

I know you are concerned about range, but at 45mph, I can get 100 miles before the battery is completely drained. I also charge it every night at home, so I leave for work every day with a full "tank"...

My daily commute is currently 93 miles r/t in DC area traffic, and I charge near my workplace (though I *could* stretch it to get home if necessary).

For long trips, we have my wife's Honda Fit.

I am leasing the Leaf, so I'm hoping to move to a job that is closer to home before I completely bust the mileage cap, but I'm not going to worry much about the battery degradation potential, as that will be someone else's problem when I trade-up to the 2016 model....

Re-consider an all-electric, as the CA HOV stickers for battery cars is not limited in numbers like the stickers for hybrids.

G.D.
 
You really need to talk directly with Lynell Jackson.


gdjsky01 said:
Just sold my 10 year old V8 4x4 Tundra. Loved it. But it's a pain to park in Redondo Beach on the street, and in town I commute 40 miles a day and it got about 12 mpg with a Sharknado chasing it. But it hauled my Astronomy and Rockets around in style. I could camp in the back (It had a cap). It had a specific purpose. Rockets, Astronomy star parties, Camping. Well its gone. And that's that.

Now I still have the wife's 1999 Infinity QX-4 that I drive to rocket launches now. It's 4wd and with the seat down and a roof rack, probably can still serve as the Astro/Rocket vehicle.

I've already decided I am not getting an All Electric plugin that ONLY has batteries. I just am too afraid of the range limits. Why Electric at all? HOV lane baby. Here in SoCal HOV access is like winning the lotto (almost)! It would cut my commuting time by 1/3rd (40 minutes vs 65 one way). The Volt has 'just' enough range to make the round trip each day on its batteries. It's relatively small, and has the Gas Generator in case you run out of charge you can still motor along for 340 miles. I am not a rah rah patriot so American company or not means nothing to me. If not the Volt, it seems nothing else has all electric with that kind of range, except a Tesla. A little out of my price range. :tongue::lol:

So if I give up the whole HOV thing, then there is no point in the all electric. I can do a hybrid, gas, or diesel. So I am back to something AWD or 4wd, has decent cargo space, and gets decent mileage. Jetta TDI? Subaru Outback?

To volt or not... that is the question... probably lease a Volt, but most likely would buy anything else (my last two vehicles I owned for 10 years each).

Ideas? Thoughts? What do you drive (that is AWD or 4wd)?
Click to expand...
 
Peartree said:
Remember that "all electric" means exactly that. Around here (as in New England) we worry about cold weather, but running the AC will run the batteries down in a hurry as well.
Click to expand...

As will the heat.

-Kevin
 
Peartree said:
Remember that "all electric" means exactly that. Around here (as in New England) we worry about cold weather, but running the AC will run the batteries down in a hurry as well.
Click to expand...

troj said:
As will the heat.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

That's a lesson I've learned driving the Prius: the higher the power draw of the climate control, the faster the optimal speed becomes. On very cold and very hot days, 70 mph can be better than 55mph, while in spring and fall when you can turn the AC off and just have it blow air, slower is better.
 
I really want a leaf. I've had one as a loaner while my pathfinder was at the dealer and loved it. It is silent, surprisingly quick (especially to about 30 mph), actually quite spacious inside and maintenance free. The dash board looks like it came from a spaceship.

It would be a great second (or third) car but I'm not sure I could live just just a leaf. With gas prices creeping back up to $4.00/gallon here, a $250/month lease on a leaf would basically mean it is free. Really tempting...
 
Derek said:
I really want a leaf. I've had one as a loaner while my pathfinder was at the dealer and loved it. It is silent, surprisingly quick (especially to about 30 mph), actually quite spacious inside and maintenance free. The dash board looks like it came from a spaceship.
Click to expand...

While I love the idea of EVs, for me something like the Leaf is worthless -- my round trip to/from work is 28 miles. If I need to stop somewhere along the way, I can easily run into the 40 mile claimed limit of most EVs.

Now, if I had the coin to fork out for a Tesla, it'd be an entirely different matter!

-Kevin
 

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