Volt or no Volt?

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troj said:
While I love the idea of EVs, for me something like the Leaf is worthless -- my round trip to/from work is 28 miles. If I need to stop somewhere along the way, I can easily run into the 40 mile claimed limit of most EVs.

Now, if I had the coin to fork out for a Tesla, it'd be an entirely different matter!

-Kevin
Click to expand...

I'm with you. I wish an all electric would work out for my driving, but short of the Tesla (drooling) there just isn't a comfortable enough margin, yet. My hope is that by the time I buy my next car (at least 6 more years I hope), the technology and infrastructure will have continue evolving toward a more flexible (extended range) vehicle. I applaud the early adopters though, pushing the technology wouldn't be possible if there weren't a group of real world users to learn from.
 
dixontj93060 said:
One of my rocketry friends has a Prius; my son on the otherhand bought a Ford Fusion Hybrid. In a comparison, I'd give the Prius a "5" or "6" and the Fusion a "10."
Click to expand...

I also like the Fusion and almost bought one. I especially liked the way the technology was integrated into the vehicle rather than added on in the Prius. In the end, the extra 15 MPG is what sold me on the Prius.
 
I usually drive my vehicles until the wheels fall off.. but its getting time to think about my next one. I can definitely understand the HOV advantage living here in Southern California! For me though, I have about a 10 mile round trip commute and only have to fill my mid-sized SUV maybe every other week. I had looked at some hybrids but I really don't drive enough to justify $10k+ more for a car even if it does double my gas mileage. $10,000.00 is 2500 gallons of gas right now.... or 139 tanks... or 5 years of gas... lol.. The whole "green" thing is absolutely absurd to me.. it's not "green" if you have to expend more resources to buy the thing.. The biggest consideration besides the cost for me is comfort! I have family and friends that have newer compact and mid-sized cars.. as I am getting older, I fine my old bones do not like sitting on the ground, even for short rides. SUV again for me I think... plus my rocket gear likes the extra room.

Jerome
 
troj said:
While I love the idea of EVs, for me something like the Leaf is worthless -- my round trip to/from work is 28 miles. If I need to stop somewhere along the way, I can easily run into the 40 mile claimed limit of most EVs.

Now, if I had the coin to fork out for a Tesla, it'd be an entirely different matter!

-Kevin
Click to expand...

So? the leaf has at least a 60 mile range. you can also try to plug it in at work. without a l2 charger it probably won't completely charge, but it is better than nothing.
 
troj said:
While I love the idea of EVs, for me something like the Leaf is worthless -- my round trip to/from work is 28 miles. If I need to stop somewhere along the way, I can easily run into the 40 mile claimed limit of most EVs.

Now, if I had the coin to fork out for a Tesla, it'd be an entirely different matter!

-Kevin
Click to expand...

If your round trip is 28 miles you could easily go two days between charges with a Leaf, maybe three if you didn't do side trips (assuming no killer hills or temperature extremes).

I'm in a similar situation and really have been considering it...but I don't have a lot of confidence that my employer isn't going to shift my work 35 miles further north (Renton to Everett) between now and retirement in a few years. That would require a recharge on the way home every day, or a charging station at the office in order to make a Leaf work for me. So..... I'm in the first year of ownership of a 2013 Mazda 3 hatchback with the "Skyactiv" 2.0 engine. I'm getting 31-34 mpg.

It carries lots of rocket stuff, and will be my transport for rockets, canopy, tables, etc. to NARAM this year (as it was to NSL last year). On that trip I saw up to 40 mpg while cruising across Wyoming at 75 mph last year.

I'm another drive-it-forever type.... I put 316K miles on my Mazda 323 hatchback before I crunched it in a moment of inattention on the way to work one morning. My wife's Protege has over 220K on it.
 
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JMZawodny said:
I also like the Fusion and almost bought one. I especially liked the way the technology was integrated into the vehicle rather than added on in the Prius. In the end, the extra 15 MPG is what sold me on the Prius.
Click to expand...

How is it "added on" in the Prius and "integrated" into the Fusion? Very curious.
 
gdjsky01 said:
You Prius owners. I hear you. Put the seats down and the hatchback is pretty good size. I had a tundra. I <3 me a Toyota. Its just the ... HOV... callin' /
Click to expand...

I went to the dark side two years ago when the Prius V came out. Much bigger than the std Prius and holds lots of stuff in the back without butting the seats down. I know a plain old everyday hybrid wont get the HOV sticker anymore but I'm rarely far enough south to need it.

photo[1].JPG
 
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Derek said:
So? the leaf has at least a 60 mile range. you can also try to plug it in at work. without a l2 charger it probably won't completely charge, but it is better than nothing.
Click to expand...

Leaf has better range than they originally did (or advertised), then, which is a good thing. When I first saw them it was in the 30 - 40 mile range.

As for "plug it in at work"....not an option. That would require somewhere to plug it in at work, which I don't have.

-Kevin
 
troj said:
Leaf has better range than they originally did (or advertised), then, which is a good thing. When I first saw them it was in the 30 - 40 mile range.

As for "plug it in at work"....not an option. That would require somewhere to plug it in at work, which I don't have.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

the leaf has never advertised a 30 - 40 mile range. are you thinking of the volt?
 
AHansom said:
I went to the dark side two years ago when the Prius V came out. Much bigger than the std Prius and holds lots of stuff in the back without butting the seats down. I know a plain old everyday hybrid wont get the HOV sticker anymore but I'm rarely far enough south to need it.
Click to expand...

What mpg do you actually realize with the V?
 
Derek said:
the leaf has never advertised a 30 - 40 mile range. are you thinking of the volt?
Click to expand...

Nope; this was before the Volt came out. Maybe it was pre-release stuff before it was finalized; I remember being sadly disappointed in the range.

-Kevin
 
I have a 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid and a 2005 Toyota Prius. Both cars are still putting along with new battery packs (BOTH installed within the last two years for FREE from the manufacturer!). That said, I would definitely buy a Prius again but would pass on the Civic. Toyota has better technology.

The only car that I've driven that really rocks is a Ford hybrid. I can't remember the model but it is on the low end of the price chart but it is a ROCKET.

I'd really have to think twice about getting a full electric car. It's practical for work but not much else. Plus, I live in SoCal where I wonder if electricity costs more than gas.

I pay $35 every 2-3 weeks for 95% of the year. I was paying $35 a week (10 years ago!) with my 1995 Jeep Cherokee! Until I hit the lottery I'll be a hybrid buyer from here on out!
 
troj said:
Now, if I had the coin to fork out for a Tesla, it'd be an entirely different matter!
-Kevin
Click to expand...

We have a customer at work that has the Tesla Coupe AND the S. He put a 240v charging station in each garage (yes, he has two, why not?) for each car. He got the Coupe first, the got the S as soon as it was available. The S was interesting. Open the trunk and there is soso storage. Open the front hood and there is another big storage area :eyepop: I'm not quite sure what he does for a living, but I'm fairly certain he doesn't do what I do :no::no: Something to do with websites he said, so there may be hope for you Troj... Sounds like Tim's website needs some more maintenance :dark:

Adrian
 
To me, the Prius V looks a lot like a Matrix, at least the back end. Not that it is a bad thing.
 
It is WAY smaller than a Matrix AND the current Matrix is WAY smaller than the original Matrix.

I had to switch from my Matrix to a Hyndai Elantra Toruing which is actually larger inside than the original Matrix. It handles WAY better, rides WAY smooother (and wheels are easier to balance) and has WAY better brakes than the Matrix.

belfert said:
To me, the Prius V looks a lot like a Matrix, at least the back end. Not that it is a bad thing.
Click to expand...
 
troj said:
Nope; this was before the Volt came out. Maybe it was pre-release stuff before it was finalized; I remember being sadly disappointed in the range.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

you might want to reconsider it then!

like I said, I couldn't rely on it as my only vehicle, but as a second commuter/around town vehicle you can't beat it.
 
I have been driving my Leaf for 4 months now, and I want to post a screencap I took today, which shows the state of charge of my Leaf, after driving to work and plugging in to the ChargePoint station for 4 hours.

Leafrange.JPG

The estimated driving distance is derived from the style of driving for the previous 15-20 miles of driving. One important thing to note is the difference between climate control off and climate control on. While the estimated driving distance can vary, the difference between CC off and on is fairly consistent.

G.D.
 
shreadvector said:
It is WAY smaller than a Matrix AND the current Matrix is WAY smaller than the original Matrix.
Click to expand...

I had a 2009 Vibe (A Matrix with different body panels) and liked it except for the poor visibility to the rear. I switched to a mini-van for more cargo capacity. I have no idea if it had more or less space than the first generation Matrix. Is there a third generation Matrix now.

The Prius V has a similar rear look to the Matrix so I thought maybe it is based on the Matrix, but I guess not. The Matrix, at least the second generation, was built off the Corolla platform if memory serves. In fact, the official name of the vehicle is Corolla Matrix.
 
Yes, Matrix is a Corolla Wagon.


Vibe is Matrix with slight differences, but they are the same size.


2 Generations of Matrix:

"The 2009 models have less interior space than the preceding years, with a total of 48.9 cu ft (1.38 m3) compared to the original 53.2 cu ft (1.51 m3)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Matrix

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius

https://money.cnn.com/gallery/autos/2013/09/03/small-cars-big-cargo-space/

Prius V only has 34.3 cu ft cargo......

https://www.cars.com/hyundai/elantra-touring/2012/specifications

65.3 cu ft plus roof rack. But, they do not make it anymore.....



belfert said:
I had a 2009 Vibe (A Matrix with different body panels) and liked it except for the poor visibility to the rear. I switched to a mini-van for more cargo capacity. I have no idea if it had more or less space than the first generation Matrix. Is there a third generation Matrix now.

The Prius V has a similar rear look to the Matrix so I thought maybe it is based on the Matrix, but I guess not. The Matrix, at least the second generation, was built off the Corolla platform if memory serves. In fact, the official name of the vehicle is Corolla Matrix.
Click to expand...

After the initial popularity of the Matrix, Toyota styled all of their cars to look like it, including the Rav 4 and the Scion "mini-Matrix".
 
Cl(VII) said:
What mpg do you actually realize with the V?
Click to expand...

Most of my driving is on the freeway and I have averaged 41MPG over 37000 miles. Seems backwards but the Prius gets better MPG doing city driving than freeway. I think its because driving around the city your able to use the electric part more.
 
For some folk, it may also be important to find out how your local utility generates electricity. In many western states (and portions of eastern Canada) a significant portion of their generation is clean hydro power. But where I live a significant portion is coal generated. Driving a pure EV here is essentially driving a coal-fired automobile (with a side of nuke).
 
Personally, I'm a huge fan of diesel vehicles, at least until Tesla-like performance becomes relatively affordable. When I visit my parents I drive their new F-250 diesel truck and it gets 21 MPG highway which isn't bad for a truck with 400 HP. The nice thing about diesels is the durability and longevity is great, which can be a factor if you keep the car for 10+ years. Plus the resale is much better than the gas models if you decide to get rid of it someday.

It looks like VW has some pretty good purchase deals going on their TDI models and I've read some good things about them. Another interesting vehicle is the new RAM 1500 diesel truck. Its rated at 28 MPG highway, and that seems hard to beat in terms of capability and efficiency. On the downside they are fairly expensive and as you know, hard to park.
 
Hi all.

Thanks for all the great input. As I said, it's really HOV lane or something completely different from the Volt. SoCal Edison I read has off-peak charging rates that are around 11 cents / KWh. And I DO understand that the #1 emitter of greenhouse gases is Electrical Plants not cars. Indeed we would HAVE to go Nuclear or others so-call alternative energies if we all went decided tomorrow to drive EVs. Otherwise the electrical generation using fossil fuels would be adding MORE GHGs than we save. (Pls don't turn this into a political thread - start your own - I've read and understand the consensus of science).

I already knew Prius owners are rabid about the car and perhaps rightly so. I rarely hear of Prius owners that are unhappy.

For now, if the Volt lease is not right for me, I'll look at the Prius V. And others. Like the VW TDI Wagon or such... but right now, given the incentives tax and otherwise, the charge rates, the overall concept of an extended range EV, and HOV access, I am going to look. But you all have given me some pause for thought. A good thing.

I especially appreciate the math and real world numbers.
Jeff
 
I know this is late, but in catching up on my reading I found a write up in my proessional magazine about the soon to be released BMW i3. Probably more than most of us could spend, but the stats look interesting:

168hp (125kW) electric motor
Optional 34hp (25kW) 2-cyl. motor
40 mpg/5.9L/100km (gasoline)
110mpg/2.14L/100km (electric equiv.)
Range:130 -160km/ charge - 200km/charge in Eco=plus mode
0-100kph/62mph in 7.2 sec.
9.8m turning circle.
 
Way late to this thread.....last year I bought I Toyota Yaris Hybrid, I am a bit of a greeny and I prefer smaller cars as its pretty much only me driving. Years ago I used to own petrol head cars because I am mad and they always cost a fortune for gas and maintenance. Some time back I decided to get smart and started buying what I ACTUALLY needed rather than what I thought looked cool and that turned out to be a small hatchback. It has to take me to work and back, do the shopping run, carry a few adults on short local journeys and occasionally do a long haul with asome astronomy gear in the back. I decided that on the very few occasions, usually twice a year, When I need serious carry space I would just hire a transit van for the weekend which worked out much cheaper than driving a large vehicle all year just so I cpild go camping maybe once or twice a year.

Immediately prior to the Yaris Hybrid I had an Aygo which was frugal, it almost ran on charity, but it was too small and too basic for me in the long run so last year I chopped Ava the Aygo in for Anita the Yaris. All my cars have names :) the Aygo was a sweet thing and if I were urban only it would be a winner but on the longish haul to work along mostly ckngested motorway it just proved too tiring to drive.

The Yaris has been great, very smooth, very eco with an average mpg on my work run which is part motorway and part urban of about 65mpg. What I most like with it is its quietness......oh ok I also like scaring the hell out of cyclists who cant hear it coming up behind them :) i am a bit sadistic like that at times. It needs a pair of massive air horns so I can creep up behind the unwary and scare them super bad bwuah hah hah :)

Its been comfy, quiet, reliable and economic. The Aygo was averaging about 46mpg against a stated best of 64mpg. The Yaris has achieved an average of about 64mpg against a stated best of 80mpg but I have done a few trips where I have hit the high 70s in the mpg.

Obvioulsy theres a big difference between America and the UK in driving ( we drive on the correct side of the road for a start :). ) so I have no idea how a Yaris would fare over there but give Prius seems to work well for you guys i cant see a Yaris would do much worse if you can tolerate a smaller car.

To get the best out of the Yaris you need to drive light footed and adapt your driving style to be very smooth, no sudden changes in throttle settings, you need to drive it rather as you fly a glider to get the best mpg put of it.

Thats my experience. I would buy it again for my needs.
 
gdjsky01 said:
Hi all.

Thanks for all the great input. As I said, it's really HOV lane or something completely different from the Volt. SoCal Edison I read has off-peak charging rates that are around 11 cents / KWh. And I DO understand that the #1 emitter of greenhouse gases is Electrical Plants not cars. Indeed we would HAVE to go Nuclear or others so-call alternative energies if we all went decided tomorrow to drive EVs. Otherwise the electrical generation using fossil fuels would be adding MORE GHGs than we save. (Pls don't turn this into a political thread - start your own - I've read and understand the consensus of science).
Click to expand...

Nuke is highly unlikely due to public perception and barriers such as cost to develop and install a plant. I agree with you that Nuke would be a great choice, it's just silly that the public doesn't want it. New Gas Turbine technology will be installed in the coming years and will significantly improve emissions and efficiency in the power generation field. A bit of a shameless plug for my employer, but check HArriett out (https://efficiency.gepower.com/media.html) and follow "her" on Twitter (https://twitter.com/HArriet_GE).
 
Astro-Baby said:
Way late to this thread.....last year I bought I Toyota Yaris Hybrid, I am a bit of a greeny and I prefer smaller cars as its pretty much only me driving. Years ago I used to own petrol head cars because I am mad and they always cost a fortune for gas and maintenance. Some time back I decided to get smart and started buying what I ACTUALLY needed rather than what I thought looked cool and that turned out to be a small hatchback. It has to take me to work and back, do the shopping run, carry a few adults on short local journeys and occasionally do a long haul with asome astronomy gear in the back. I decided that on the very few occasions, usually twice a year, When I need serious carry space I would just hire a transit van for the weekend which worked out much cheaper than driving a large vehicle all year just so I cpild go camping maybe once or twice a year.

Immediately prior to the Yaris Hybrid I had an Aygo which was frugal, it almost ran on charity, but it was too small and too basic for me in the long run so last year I chopped Ava the Aygo in for Anita the Yaris. All my cars have names :) the Aygo was a sweet thing and if I were urban only it would be a winner but on the longish haul to work along mostly ckngested motorway it just proved too tiring to drive.

The Yaris has been great, very smooth, very eco with an average mpg on my work run which is part motorway and part urban of about 65mpg. What I most like with it is its quietness......oh ok I also like scaring the hell out of cyclists who cant hear it coming up behind them :) i am a bit sadistic like that at times. It needs a pair of massive air horns so I can creep up behind the unwary and scare them super bad bwuah hah hah :)

Its been comfy, quiet, reliable and economic. The Aygo was averaging about 46mpg against a stated best of 64mpg. The Yaris has achieved an average of about 64mpg against a stated best of 80mpg but I have done a few trips where I have hit the high 70s in the mpg.

Obvioulsy theres a big difference between America and the UK in driving ( we drive on the correct side of the road for a start :). ) so I have no idea how a Yaris would fare over there but give Prius seems to work well for you guys i cant see a Yaris would do much worse if you can tolerate a smaller car.

To get the best out of the Yaris you need to drive light footed and adapt your driving style to be very smooth, no sudden changes in throttle settings, you need to drive it rather as you fly a glider to get the best mpg put of it.

Thats my experience. I would buy it again for my needs.
Click to expand...

In the US there is no hybrid version of the Yaris; there is the smaller Prius C, but that apparently gets worse fuel economy than the regular version.
 
So far, I have gone 3 weeks on the grid power only. I get about 43-48 miles / per charge. I have seen the spike in electrical usage on the daily graphs but am not yet sure of the monthly bill. Remember I came from a 2004 Toyota Tundra (which BTW I enjoyed a lot).

The Volt in 'sport' mode pulls hard. Very peppy but of course you can almost watch the charge state dropping. ;) The lease payment will never be offset by the fuel savings. Especially now that prices are dropping again (average here is 4.25 for regular). But about $250 of it will. It literally has only taken me back and forth to work (34.9 miles 56km) round trip.

The build quality is excellent. The infotainment system's controls and layout are not intuitive, but you can get use to it. The graphics are not as 'cool' as a Prius. But best to look outside I suppose. ;) The parking warning system is annoying most of the time, and useful a few times.

Overall I am happy with the choice. But its only been 3 weeks.

BTW: I am told much of SoCal's grid power is hydro or alternative. Much of it, but not by any means all. Also, I am told almost no coal.
Jeff
 

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