non-mass expulsion type thruster

Here is non-mass expulsion type device, which uses properties of line integral and path dependent nature of friction force. The new device can achieve near light speed using properties inherent to relativity. In cases like LHC while particle moves at light speed the force is applied from stationary. But in new device force applied from and space craft is in same inertial frame, so comparatively less energy is required to attain light speed. Details of new device are given in link
https://sites.google.com/site/nonmassexpulsiontypethruster/
Please comment your views on feasibility of the above concept

My thoughts: it's not possible.

Friction is path dependent, but the fact is that the velocity as the ball rounds the curve is different on the top and bottom, EXACTLY canceling out the lack of friction in the smooth tube.

Without momentum transfer (aka without expelling mass, or even mass-energy in the form of radiation), there is no net thrust.

Moving the ball in any way cannot provide any acceleration. All it can do is change the center of mass of the system. Consider sitting in a box on top of a super-slippery surface. Tie a heavy ball to the end of a rope. Swing the ball around. If you swing it in a steady circle, you would not move. Vary the speed (by pulling harder or changing the length of the rope) while you swing the ball and you might move around, but you would just wiggle back and forth around the place where you started.

Moving mass around inside a closed system just changes the center of mass of the system. It cannot cause the system to move. Get back in the box and toss the ball out of the box. The box will move in the opposite direction. This is how rocket motors work. The system isn't closed, because the ball leaves it. Now, toss the ball at the wall of the box. The box will move as before until the ball hits the wall which will cause it to move back. The net effect is no movement of the box. That's what happens in a closed system like the device described in the original post.

The only acceleration you might get from this device would be due to the slightly asymmetrical release of heat. Some of the heat from the "friction" side would reflect off the "smooth" side causing acceleration. But, that wouldn't provide much acceleration (especially in relation to the energy you would put into the system to keep the ball moving.)

An LED or light bulb powered by a battery would work in a similar way and would be much more efficient.

-- Roger

My thought is that this Thread should be moved to an appropriate Section, like The Watering Hole, since it has nothing to do with High Power Rocketry.

TopRamen said:

My thought is that this Thread should be moved to an appropriate Section, like The Watering Hole, since it has nothing to do with High Power Rocketry.

Click to expand...

+110

ds1 said:

Please comment your views on feasibility of the above concept

Click to expand...

Ohh, easy: Completely infeasible.

ds1
I think it is a great idea. Please start a build thread so we can follow your progress.

M

I'm sure the equivalent is somewhere in here:
https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm

for a Path independent force or conservative force work done in a closed path or its line integral must be zero.vice verse for path dependent force like friction. if friction of ball in closed path can do some work then there is equal and opposite reaction of that work done on space craft resulting in motion of space craft according to third law of motion by newton. share your thoughts on this

can you suggest a good dynamic simulation software that uses line integrals or vector calculus; so that I can test this device in that software for all possible permutations and combinations to get a positive result before start building a actual prototype. help me in this regard

Do you know what it is we do here??

This is an interesting concept, but even if it did work, it wouldn't work. Friction causes heat, but in the real world, it also causes wear. It wouldn't take to many trips around the tube before the whole thing would be wore out.

Well seems like ds1 alias Diji N Jayakaran, is a spamer , he even put his crap on my facebook page link in my signature

That's what I thought too. 1 Post, in the wrong Section, about something irrelevent...
By Post #4 he'll have Deals on Cell Phones and Laptops.

Can we get rid of him before he makes his Sales Pitch Post?

This is not a post he make, he copy paste this thing everywhere he can.

Here more info about this guy, I report him as spammer to Facebook

If we can combine this reactionless thruster with my fusion reactor and gravity generator, we can almost have a real starship! All we need now is a replicator and holo-deck!

DS1 is banned and this thread will be removed in a day or so.

Bob