telemetrum help

I am having issues getting the telemetrum and teledongle to talk to each other on windows 8.1. The teledongle is installed and shows up in the software. If I open idle mode, I see nothing. Same thing if I open monitor flight. All the boxes are empty. Any ideas?

tbonerocketeer said:

I am having issues getting the telemetrum and teledongle to talk to each other on windows 8.1. The teledongle is installed and shows up in the software. If I open idle mode, I see nothing. Same thing if I open monitor flight. All the boxes are empty. Any ideas?

Click to expand...

Update: I left it in pad mode and some boxes have info. State shows invalid, serial shows none as does flight.

tbonerocketeer said:

I am having issues getting the telemetrum and teledongle to talk to each other on windows 8.1. The teledongle is installed and shows up in the software. If I open idle mode, I see nothing. Same thing if I open monitor flight. All the boxes are empty. Any ideas?

Click to expand...

Did you plug the TeleMetrum in to the machine and configure it? If so, you probably set the callsign. You need to *also* set the callsign under 'Configure AltosUI' for 'monitor idle' to work.

To make 'monitor flight' work, you need to set the TeleMetrum so it's antenna is pointing straight up and then turn it on. This lets it know that it should be in 'pad' mode, ready for launch, and transmitting telemetrum to the TeleDongle.

I know, our manual has grown to impressive (and imposing) length; we're trying to figure out if we can easily and helpfully edit it so that you don't have to read the whole thing to find what you need in it.

I set the call sign in both places- same case too. I have tried antenna up for monitor and it shows the same thing. I have tried to configure over air, monitor idle with it horizontal and get nothing as well . Any other ideas?


Christopher Short
Chris' Rocket Supplies
www.csrocketry.com
850-554-6531

Is it a new unit ?, did you try it on Windows 7 before ? I ask because I receive a new unit last week and the telemetrum radio seem to not work at all, I try it on Windows 7 PC, my Windows 7 Laptop and on my Samsung Note ( I have the teleBT ). I will try it on Windows 8 once I have it working on Windows 7, but I guess it will need to be replace.

It is new, and no to windows 7. I don't have it to try it with.


Christopher Short
Chris' Rocket Supplies
www.csrocketry.com
850-554-6531

They are tested. I know Bdale and he provides excellent service. This will take some time to figure out as I am sure it is a driver/os issue.


Christopher Short
Chris' Rocket Supplies
www.csrocketry.com
850-554-6531

tbonerocketeer said:

I set the call sign in both places- same case too. I have tried antenna up for monitor and it shows the same thing. I have tried to configure over air, monitor idle with it horizontal and get nothing as well . Any other ideas?

Click to expand...

Hi Chris!

What are you using for an antenna on the ground station?

It's possible that you have the two units too close together. Since we've designed things to work well at long distance, it's entirely possible to overload the receiver (doesn't hurt the hardware, but will keep it from receiving properly) if the two units are too close together. Since the TX output power on TeleMetrum v2 is higher than on v1, this is more likely to happen with new boards than with our older ones. A few meters of physical separation is usually sufficient with a whip or 3-5 element yagi on the ground station and the default wire whip on the flight computer.

I have a arrow 3 element yagi. I have tried from 30 feet and still have the same issues. I ran it in Ubuntu but get the cannot connect to teledongle error.


Christopher Short
Chris' Rocket Supplies
www.csrocketry.com
850-554-6531

I'm having a similar struggle (though I haven't tried separating the two - I thought this might be part of the problem). I did managed to get one packet on my laptop, but that was it.

I will try separating tonight, but am still interested to see how you fixed the communication issue Chris....

butalane said:

I'm having a similar struggle (though I haven't tried separating the two - I thought this might be part of the problem). I did managed to get one packet on my laptop, but that was it.

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I'f you're getting any packets at all, then you should try separating the units by a dozen feet or so. We don't automatically adjust the transmitter power to keep the receiver from being overloaded.

keithp said:

I'f you're getting any packets at all, then you should try separating the units by a dozen feet or so. We don't automatically adjust the transmitter power to keep the receiver from being overloaded.

Click to expand...

Tried separating the units, no dice. Any other suggestions?

I had similar problems last night, trying to test my second unit (I want to fly one in each stage). Make sure the telemetry option is on and your callsign is entered, then reboot the TM.

Then, use "Scan Channels" to find the TM from the dongle. I had very inconsistent results with selecting the channel manually, but was able to see both units from either dongle through "Scan Channels". (There appear to be frequency tuning parameters that are fiddly, but I haven't figured that out yet.)

I also use a 3" rubber duck antenna on the dongle for bench testing.

Here's what a "quick start" should cover:

• exact sequence of steps to get "Monitor Idle" working
• the unit won't talk to the computer unless it's switched on (that red LED just means charging)
• telemetry is turned off by default
• the TM won't talk to the computer unless you connect it before powering it up
• you need a minimal dongle antenna for bench testing
• the TM won't transmit if not vertical

I also suggest, to make the product easier to bench test, that some of the restrictions be removed. In particular, it took me a while to figure out that the unit doesn't transmit if it's not in "flight ready" orientation. This is inconvenient (and un-obvious) for bench-testing.

Here are some ease-of-use suggestions:

• change the TM so that it talks to the computer when plugged in (regardless of power switch state or presence of battery)
• change the default setting of telemetry to enabled
• include an absolutely minimal antenna for the dongle in the starter pack (a short piece of wire?)
• make the TM transmit regardless of position, maybe with a warning that it's not in flight orientation
• change the TM so that it will connect to the computer when plugged in after boot-up
• make channel selection work properly in monitor idle (or make the tuning parameters more obvious)

Still no luck. Not sure what to do

JohnCoker said:

telemetry is turned off by default

Click to expand...

Oh, so send telemetry while in idle mode in between listening for command mode packets? I'm slightly hesitant to do that by default as I'm not sure I like having it transmit even in 'idle' mode?

JohnCoker said:

the TM won't talk to the computer unless you connect it before powering it up

Click to expand...

TeleMetrum and TeleMega should both talk over USB any time they're in idle mode. EasyMini switches between idle mode and pad mode depending on whether USB is plugged in or not, but devices with an accelerometer pick the startup mode based only on orientation. I'd love to know if this is actually broken for you and see if we can't figure it out.

JohnCoker said:

you need a minimal dongle antenna for bench testing

Click to expand...

We found some cheap dual band antennas and sold those for a while. Then we stuck one on an antenna analyzer and discovered just how bad they were for 70cm. We'll keep looking for something credible to use, but I'm afraid we haven't had luck yet. We've made a couple with a bare SMA connector and a piece of wire, and while those work, they really don't seem robust enough to offer as a 'real' product.

JohnCoker said:

[*]the TM won't transmit if not vertical

Click to expand...

Right, pad mode vs idle mode.

JohnCoker said:

I also suggest, to make the product easier to bench test, that some of the restrictions be removed. In particular, it took me a while to figure out that the unit doesn't transmit if it's not in "flight ready" orientation. This is inconvenient (and un-obvious) for bench-testing.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I can definitely see how this might make things easier for testing. As I mention above, I'm hesitant to have it transmit even while not ready for flight though. Definitely worth considering.

JohnCoker said:

• change the TM so that it talks to the computer when plugged in (regardless of power switch state or presence of battery)
• change the default setting of telemetry to enabled
• include an absolutely minimal antenna for the dongle in the starter pack (a short piece of wire?)
• make the TM transmit regardless of position, maybe with a warning that it's not in flight orientation
• change the TM so that it will connect to the computer when plugged in after boot-up
• make channel selection work properly in monitor idle (or make the tuning parameters more obvious)

Click to expand...

We turn off the USB link when in flight mode to save power. Just making USB possible does consume a bit of current, and when your rocket goes missing and you need to find it, having the transmitter last another hour or so because of this can be nice. However, what I've done in another project is to measure the USB voltage and turn the USB connector back on when there's something plugged in. That makes it not take extra power running the USB hardware until you plug it in. We'll definitely look at this as a hardware upgrade.

I should fix the monitor idle startup dialog so you can set the frequency and call sign right from there. That would help a lot when setting things up the first time. Maybe even offer a way to scan the channels for the flight computer?

As for connecting after power up, it should already do that. I haven't had any troubles with that on my machines; I wonder what's different with your setup.

Thanks much for your suggestions; I'll see how many we can manage to get into new hardware and software versions.

keithp said:

Oh, so send telemetry while in idle mode in between listening for command mode packets? I'm slightly hesitant to do that by default as I'm not sure I like having it transmit even in 'idle' mode?

Click to expand...

What's the down-side? Note that I'm suggesting transmit only when turned on, which will only happen during bench testing and when the unit is armed at the pad.

keithp said:

As for connecting after power up, it should already do that. I haven't had any troubles with that on my machines; I wonder what's different with your setup.

Click to expand...

I think the problem might have been orientation. The best solution would be the sensing idea you mention, since other units I've used aren't orientation-specific in terms of USB function.

The orientation being so critical to the behavior of the unit is something I haven't encountered before, and it appears to be counter-intuitive to others as well.

At the very least, maybe publish an exact sequence of steps for configuring and bench-testing via the dongle, which is the first thing people are going to do after getting their units. That at least will get people past these quirks. I can take a shot at it if you like.

JohnCoker said:

At the very least, maybe publish an exact sequence of steps for configuring and bench-testing via the dongle, which is the first thing people are going to do after getting their units. That at least will get people past these quirks. I can take a shot at it if you like.

Click to expand...

If you're up for writing something like this, we'd love to have it, either as a part of the web site or even shipped as documentation with the products. If you do want us to use it, please use the Creative Commons ShareAlike 3.0 license so that we can redistribute it along with our software. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/

With two separate Telemetrums with replaced or fixed batteries, we've seen transmissions turn on and off during flight. One flight of a friend's turned off after apogee and did not turn on again. It also failed to fire one of the charges. For mine, it turned off after apogee, turned on again at a few thousand feet, turned off again after main or at around that time, and did not resume. I needed telemetry or RDF to localize the rocket to a section of woods that we were not allowed to enter. We had visual that it went there under main but without being able to point out exactly where it would be, we were stuck. So, one rocket unrecoverable.

Note, we used 5 element beam and handhelds to verify, not the teledongles. The signal was solid except when it was not present at all. We've had issues establishing connectivity with teledongles in a timely fashion (without retries) at launches. We can deal with that on the bench but not in flight scenarios.

At a suggestion, add a feature where if the telemetrum turns on and detects rapidly changing barometric pressure, it presumes a flight is in progress, ignores orientation, and resumes flight mode. That feature could be enabled in the GUI.

Gerald

G_T said:

With two separate Telemetrums with replaced or fixed batteries, we've seen transmissions turn on and off during flight. One flight of a friend's turned off after apogee and did not turn on again. It also failed to fire one of the charges. For mine, it turned off after apogee, turned on again at a few thousand feet, turned off again after main or at around that time, and did not resume. I needed telemetry or RDF to localize the rocket to a section of woods that we were not allowed to enter. We had visual that it went there under main but without being able to point out exactly where it would be, we were stuck. So, one rocket unrecoverable.

Note, we used 5 element beam and handhelds to verify, not the teledongles. The signal was solid except when it was not present at all. We've had issues establishing connectivity with teledongles in a timely fashion (without retries) at launches. We can deal with that on the bench but not in flight scenarios.

At a suggestion, add a feature where if the telemetrum turns on and detects rapidly changing barometric pressure, it presumes a flight is in progress, ignores orientation, and resumes flight mode. That feature could be enabled in the GUI.

Gerald

Click to expand...

Was this a telemetrum 1 or 2?

I can no longer check on mine... My original old Telemetrum from several years back was always quite reliable. I still have it and perhaps I'll fly it again. The ones we were having issues with are just a couple of years old. There may have been changes since then.

Gerald

G_T said:

The ones we were having issues with are just a couple of years old. There may have been changes since then.

Click to expand...

We got surprised when the batteries we sold with TeleMetrum last year had a new current limiting circuit that was occasionally cutting out all of the power when the igniters fired. We posted messages when we figured out what was going on and got a lot of batteries fixed by simply removing the circuit. Now we're sourcing our own batteries without the protection circuit at all. TeleMetrum v2, TeleMega and EasyMini all use a fancy new pyro circuit that monitors the battery voltage and ensures that the flight computer keeps running even while firing pyro circuits.

If you've got a newer TeleMetrum v1.2 board and battery, you'll want to get the current limiter board removed before flying again.

On mine I removed the circuit from the battery. For my friend's, I replaced the battery with a different one with a little higher capacity.

Gerald

A little update. Still cannot get my Telemetrum to connect to the Teledongle but I did turn on my HAM radio and it was receiving a signal on the frequency the Telemetrum was transmitting on (thought despite turning on APRS there was no deciphered data on the radio). I'm at a complete loss, I've tried every combination I could think of of every suggested fix I could find.

Maybe my Teledongle doesn't work??


Glad to hear the intermittent power issues were resolved. No Telemetry (at least position data) would be an almost guaranteed loss.

butalane said:

Maybe my Teledongle doesn't work??

Click to expand...

Can your computer identify it (can you connect to and configure it)? When you're trying to find the TeleMetrum, does the dongle flash red and/or green LEDs? I suspect you're running into one of quirks of the system, rather than an outright hardware failure, but I'm not an expert.

Yes, I can identify and configure the dongle; I changed the call sign to match that on the telemetrum. And yes it also flashes red and green when I try to connect to the telemetrum via the teledongle

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

What's the orientation, and are you selecting the correct communication option in AltOS? Forgive me if I'm stating something you already know.

If the TeleMetrum is horizontal at power-up, you need to be sure to select Monitor Idle. If it's vertical, you need to select Monitor Flight.

Also, have you tried scanning channels?

-Kevin

G_T said:

For my friend's, I replaced the battery with a different one with a little higher capacity.

Click to expand...

Just as an aside (not really related to your current question), the issue isn't one of battery capacity, but of what the current limit threshold is on the protection circuit board, and whether it acts like a "fast" or "slow-blow" fuse. You really want a LiPo with no protection circuit board when flying a TeleMega, TeleMetrum, or TeleMini.

troj said:

Also, have you tried scanning channels?

Click to expand...

What Kevin said. I've had the best luck with the TM vertical and unplugged from the computer and using Scan Channels to find it from the dongle.

Understood. I just went with a higher capacity Nano cell for my friend's, since I was replacing the battery anyway. It was faster for me to make up a new cell than to modify the old one. In the process I put a JST connector in line to the battery as it makes it more convenient for separate charging using a smart charger.

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__23320__turnigy_nano_tech_1200mah_1s_15c_round_lipo_.html - that sort of battery. I have them on hand in a number of sizes.

Gerald

troj said:

What's the orientation, and are you selecting the correct communication option in AltOS? Forgive me if I'm stating something you already know.

If the TeleMetrum is horizontal at power-up, you need to be sure to select Monitor Idle. If it's vertical, you need to select Monitor Flight.

Also, have you tried scanning channels?

-Kevin

Click to expand...

Like I said, every combination of every suggestion I've seen. Laying down select monitor idle, laying down select monitor idle far away, standing up select monitor flight, standing up selecting monitor flight far away, laying down and scanning channels, laying down scan channels far away, standing up and selecting scan channels, etc, etc, etc. I've also switched antennas on all the devices and tried the combinations that again thinking perhaps I had a bad antenna. But unless I have 4 bad antennas, that isn't it, and the Yaesu does pick up a signal from the telemetrum.