FLAIL by The Launch Pad

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Decent day, sun's out, time to paint.
The Flail gets a coat of primer. Rust-Oleum "Self Etching Primer", at Wallyworld usually in the Automotive section.
Flail primer 1.jpg Flail primer 2.jpg

I don't have any flat green for finish color but I do have gloss green. Oh well, close enough to green.

JP
 
She looks good! :clap:
"Self-Etching Primer"??? Hmmm, I'll have to Google that to find out what it is.:confused:

Okay, it sounded like it was meant for Metal, and after looking it up I found out that it is. I'm sure it does'nt hurt to use it on other things though.
 
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Yup. I've had good results with it using Enamels.
I you look good you can see I've got more filling to do! Just when you think it's smooth, you
shoot the primer to it and wham! out come the cracks and voids!

JP
 
About the TBII, I was referring to trying to insert a Coupler and having it only go in so far, as in not far enough.
In my Case, I was trying to install a Baffle in my TLP ALARM, and as I was pushing it into position it froze up. I pushed harder, and crumpled the Body Tube. Not my finest moment.:facepalm:

You never want to use yellow wood glue in tight-fitting parts, especially paper ones that will rapidly wick the moisture away from the glue, causing it to set up.

Gluing couplers is better done with 1) epoxy (wear nitrile gloves) or 2) white glue. Epoxy is a somewhat better choice because since it cures via chemical reaction, it doesn't matter HOW thinly it's spread between tight-fitting parts, it won't "lock up" until the working time has elapsed and it starts to cure. White glue is subject to the same sort of problems as yellow glue when spread thinly between tight fitting parts like couplers, but usually it's slower to "lock up" and if you use a thick layer of it usually you have plenty of time to get everything like you want it before it does... (USUALLY... not always... :))

Later and good luck! OL JR :)
 
You never want to use yellow wood glue in tight-fitting parts, especially paper ones that will rapidly wick the moisture away from the glue, causing it to set up.

Gluing couplers is better done with 1) epoxy (wear nitrile gloves) or 2) white glue. Epoxy is a somewhat better choice because since it cures via chemical reaction, it doesn't matter HOW thinly it's spread between tight-fitting parts, it won't "lock up" until the working time has elapsed and it starts to cure. White glue is subject to the same sort of problems as yellow glue when spread thinly between tight fitting parts like couplers, but usually it's slower to "lock up" and if you use a thick layer of it usually you have plenty of time to get everything like you want it before it does... (USUALLY... not always... :))

Later and good luck! OL JR :)
10-4. Learning the hard way!
I'll get some white glue for sure. I've got epoxy but don't use much of it on these light weight kits.
Thanks for posting luke.

JP
 
She looks good! :clap:
"Self-Etching Primer"??? Hmmm, I'll have to Google that to find out what it is.:confused:

Okay, it sounded like it was meant for Metal, and after looking it up I found out that it is. I'm sure it does'nt hurt to use it on other things though.

Yep... "Self etching" primer is designed to be applied primarily over smooth metal coatings that tend to have the paint "flake off" after awhile-- stuff like galvanized metal and such that paint doesn't stick well to. The "self etching" part kinda eats into the coating a little bit so that the primer can stick to it...

Probably won't hurt to use it on other stuff, but not really necessary... whatever you prefer and works for you.

Later! OL JR :)
 
10-4. Learning the hard way!
I'll get some white glue for sure.
Thanks for posting luke.

JP

You're welcome...

For paper/paper joints, white glue is actually better than the yellow wood glue (YWG). The only real advantage to the YWG in that application is for motor mount tubes to centering rings, because YWG is a little more "heat resistant" than white glue. For gluing the motor mount/centering ring assembly into the main body tube, you DEFINITELY want to use white glue or epoxy and not YWG. For one thing, by the time the heat works its way out through the paper, card, or fiberboard centering rings (which are excellent insulators) the loads are off the motor mount anyway, so white glue isn't going to soften up on you at that point. Second, the white glue, unlike YWG, will not "coke bottle" the body tube, which is caused by the relatively high shrinkage of YWG when curing, which can "suck in" the sides of the body tube at the centering rings, making the exterior of the rocket look ugly. White glue shrinks MUCH less during curing and won't "coke bottle" the body tube at the rings. As mentioned, for paper-to-paper joints, like body tubes and centering rings, white glue is actually stronger than YWG, so long as heat isn't a factor. White glue typically gives you a little more time and ease of installing the motor mount and getting it in the correct position before "locking up" in the tube than YWG as mentioned already as well.

Epoxy is probably the safest choice for these jobs, though... the epoxy actually lubricates the joint as it goes together, and no matter HOW thin of a layer it's smeared in, it won't lock up until the physical chemical reaction of the hardener polymerizes the resin. (depending on the "working time" of your epoxy-- generally speaking, the longer the cure time, the stronger the epoxy). The downside is the necessity of mixing the epoxy, the waste of excess material, and the necessity of wearing nitrile gloves to prevent contact sensitivity from developing... White glue doesn't have those drawbacks, but it CAN still lock up if the parts are very snug fitting and you don't use a THICK, WET layer of glue...

Good luck and the Flail is looking good! OL JR :)
 
I learned something more there!

I don't use cheap 5-30 minute epoxy anymore. Learned that lesson with RC Planes with motors and firewalls.
And like you mentioned, the longer it takes to set up the stronger. Our Hobby Shop dealer told us that. He
was part of the team that did RD on the SR71 Black Bird! Never would tell us anything about it, other than it "went fast".
That's all he said about it.

JP
 
White glue shrinks MUCH less during curing and won't "coke bottle" the body tube at the rings.

This is an excellent point. I built a Fat Boy with yellow glue and stock parts except a 29mm engine mount. I pretty much flooded the area above the top centering ring with glue, hoping for added strength. For a long time I wondered why the body was "puckered" at the centering rings until it dawned on me that the glue was the cause. Even when it's not dumped it, this shows up in large-diameter body tubes like the Fat Boy and Big Daddy.
 
Origami fins?
What will they think of next?
Ha! That's one way of looking at it.
Got the flat camo green on the Flail today. I'm not putting on the conduit and probably won't do stickers either.
Got other things on the brain now; Something with Wings!
Flail Flat camo green.jpg

JP
 
Very nice looking so far, I'm digging that rocket!
 
Very nice looking so far, I'm digging that rocket!
Thanks.
As Mark says, "don't fly naked". So, thank you Mark for the yellow. The Flail won't be naked.
Flail with stripes.jpg
OK, I can't stand it! I'll do the U.S. ARMY like the card.

JP
 
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That turned out great!:clap:
I just ordered some Aluminum Foil Tape to do silver Bands with. The Silver looks great on green.
 
That looks really good. With the kind of luck I have, the better looking the rocket, the more spectacular the crash. I could build a perfect-to-the-last-detail water rocket, and it would explode in an atomic mushroom cloud of fire.

Hope yours flies straight and true with a pillow-soft landing!
 
That turned out great!:clap:
I just ordered some Aluminum Foil Tape to do silver Bands with. The Silver looks great on green.
Thanks TR.
That looks really good. With the kind of luck I have, the better looking the rocket, the more spectacular the crash. I could build a perfect-to-the-last-detail water rocket, and it would explode in an atomic mushroom cloud of fire.

Hope yours flies straight and true with a pillow-soft landing!
Thanks, it did fly straight, today!
I'll post a few launch pics while I try and figure out how to post the video.
Flail on the Pad.jpgFlail lights up on the Pad.png
Flail leaves pad 1.pngFlail leaves pad.png
I'm lucky! I used an Estes D12-5. *It needs to be a D12-3 for this Flail.
Both flights the rocket was pointed straight down when the ejection occurred.
I had a great time launching it though! The wind was blowing around 10-15 mph.
Maybe somebody can give me suggestions as to how and post the video.

JP
 
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Well at the risk of repeating myself "What a great job!" :clap:
:w:
:wave:

Seriously congrats. Not an easy build but it looks like a rewarding one!
(I might also add that Todd is a master.)
 
Thank you Jeff!
Who is Todd and Master of what?

I never drew this one up in Open Rocket, so the CG/CP is pure luck, although based on it's
behavior yesterday I think it's nose heavy. After all, I added like 3" to the length to the nose.
Thinking hard about removing some of the lead shot weight from the nose cone, maybe half of it
and give it a try again on the D12-5. I ordered a 3 pack of D12-3 yesterday for this bird, I like the way
it looks in the air, it's very easy to see being dark green.

First launch I put allot of angle to the pad. I wasn't sure how high it would go and the wind was kicking
up a good bit. The field was plenty large enough, even for High Power if I was ready, but soon it will be
covered in planted crop, probably soy beans, maybe cotton.
The rocket arched over at Apogee and continued to travel fast back towards earth. ejection came at 5 seconds
but the rocket was around 150' from surface! Scary but short walk, around 100 yards from pad. Next launch I
removed some of the launch angle and got it around 40 yards closer on touch down.

JP
 
Before changing Weight you might just want to see how the -3 Delays work out with no Wind.
I would have probably Scrapped the Launch in 10-15 MPH Wind, but atleast now you know it flies!
 
Easy problem, for the delay, just get an E12-5 that should put it high enough for the 5sec delay lol great to hear she flew & got recovered.
 
Before changing Weight you might just want to see how the -3 Delays work out with no Wind.
I would have probably Scrapped the Launch in 10-15 MPH Wind, but atleast now you know it flies!
The wind would settle down for a minute and then I'd push the button. The Thin Mil 18" chute brought it down fast. Had it
been a 24" chute it probably would have landed back at the pad! The field is around 1.25 miles in length. Perfect for rockets.
Wish I could get the lease! It wouldn't be worth the cost though, crops bring money!
Easy problem, for the delay, just get an E12-5 that should put it high enough for the 5sec delay lol great to hear she flew & got recovered.
I had thought about that. Last night I also ordered 2 AT E20-4W for the TLP Bull Pup. Hobbylinc didn't show E15-5's like it called for.
Thank you for the input guys!

JP
 
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As far as CP, I don't know about OR but in rocksim you can override the calculate CG and weight. So all you have to do is whip up the body tube, approimate the NC and fins (the fins can be approximate as well - you don't need all the angles). It should give you a CP within a few % right there. No need to really simulate the whole airframe.

Input the real weight and CG and then you can start adjusting.



bradycros is Todd.
 
Check out the height when the rocket ejected! You can see the trees in the distance.
Lucky it didn't zipper on me! This is a Snap Shot of the Video.
Flail ejection.gif

JP
 
Flight report, second time launching the Flail.
Removed all of the nose weight. The added 3" to the upper section
made the CG just right for D12-5 motors, (D12-3 on order).

Launched 3 times today. Winds around 10-12 MPH.

I let my Son's Girlfriend's child, age 7 push the Red Button! He was given instructions and he followed them
correctly. He armed the launcher when told and after continuity was confirmed he did a count-down from 5.
He was a very happy boy! He can hardly wait till next week-end to launch again.

Last flight the rocket's rear fin hit the power line we were parked by. I had the pad angled into the wind but it
pushed it back further than the last 2 times. That fin is now loose, along with another one that has a small crack
in it from last launch. I used Yellow Wood Glue! Should have been through the wall fins! I guess I'll use CA to secure
them back to the body tube. They can't be lifted without removing them completely.

I like the way this rocket flies. When it's days are over I'll probably build another one with TTW rear fins and the same 3"
body tube extension.
Snapshot 1 Flail.gif
JP
 
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Awesome! I was introduced to Model Rocketry at 8 Years old, and it stuck. Up til' then all I had flown was tons of Fireworks Rockets.
Good on you for gettin' a Kid his first Launch Experience.
 
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