Peeling paper fins

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goldlizard

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Does anyone have problems with your papered fins peeling up when you paint or primer?
Am I not getting enough glue on the fins when I paper them?
Before ,I was using to much glue, and getting wrinkles.
Now I am getting them smooth, with a thin coat of glue, but now they peel when I prime them.
 
Nope. What kind of Paper are you using? I've used Printer Paper and Cardstock, and have not had any peeling.
I watched Tim Van Milligans Video on how to Paper Fins, and just do what he did.
The difference being that I stick them uder a Stack of heavy Books to let them Dry over night.
Are you remembering to seal the Edges with CA?
 
I am using printer paper.
I also press them under a book and several pounds of sand filled pill bottles.
And, I seal the whole fin in CA.
Is that video here on TRF?
 
I had some issues using spray adhesive. I didn't apply to both sides, and I didn't seal with cayanoacrylate. I think had I done so, the paper would have been great.
 
I use a heavy coat of Avery brand Permanent Glue Stic, and it's resolved all the problems I've had with bubbles forming (unlike Elmer's glue all).
 
I use Scotch Quick Dry Adhesive. Nothing peels. Paper or card stock - it stays stuck. And I don't seal edges or soak the fins with CA to make up for using a poor adhesive.
 
I've always used full sheets of Avery mailing labels and CA glue the edges. Never had a problem with peeling.
 
I am using printer paper.
I also press them under a book and several pounds of sand filled pill bottles.
And, I seal the whole fin in CA.
Is that video here on TRF?

[video=youtube;JnYBSbYr8ZE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnYBSbYr8ZE[/video]

I found it on Youtube. Sounds like your doing it right. When I seal the Edge of the Fin I run the Spout of the CA along just the Edge, before I trim/sand the excess paper, like Tim does in the Video.
 
[video=youtube;JnYBSbYr8ZE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnYBSbYr8ZE[/video]

I found it on Youtube. Sounds like your doing it right. When I seal the Edge of the Fin I run the Spout of the CA along just the Edge, before I trim/sand the excess paper, like Tim does in the Video.


That may be my problem, I am CA sealing the fins after I trim away the excess paper.
 
This time I am using Rust-oleum ultra prime and Rust-oleum O.D. green.


I am using Elmers white glue.

That's basically what I use... I use Elmer's white glue to put printer paper on fins and then prime with Rusto wet sandable primer (big cans I got at a home store or WM IIRC). I also use Walmart Colorplace Primer at times as well, all with no ill effects...

I don't weigh the fins down after papering them-- I just fold the paper over the leading edge of the fin and glue it down to itself around the other three edges, and then trim it down flush to the edges... no problems whatsoever... I let the fins dry overnight and then shave the paper down flush to the edges, and then lightly sand the edges... it's all covered in the thread I did complete with lots of pics...

Not sure what's going on. How heavy are you putting on your primer?? Basically you should be putting on primer coats like you'd do paint coats... several light coats building up a thicker layer, with about 30 minutes to an hour between coats (per the can instructions).

What sort of paper are you using?? The only thing I can think of is that you're not getting a good bond... are you using a paper with a coating of some type?? I know someone was talking about using a type of freezer paper for fins, and having good luck with it. The whole thing sounds like perhaps there's some sort of coating on the paper that is preventing the glue from getting a good bond between the paper and wood. Then perhaps the paper is absorbing the solvents and swelling slightly, causing wrinkles or making the paper turn loose. That's the only thing I can think of that makes sense...

More information please and I'll try to help...

Later! OL JR :)

PS... I don't CA the edges or anything... it seals up the wood pores so that the fins can't bond properly to the tube using wood glue later...
 
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That's basically what I use... I use Elmer's white glue to put printer paper on fins and then prime with Rusto wet sandable primer (big cans I got at a home store or WM IIRC). I also use Walmart Colorplace Primer at times as well, all with no ill effects...

I don't weigh the fins down after papering them-- I just fold the paper over the leading edge of the fin and glue it down to itself around the other three edges, and then trim it down flush to the edges... no problems whatsoever... I let the fins dry overnight and then shave the paper down flush to the edges, and then lightly sand the edges... it's all covered in the thread I did complete with lots of pics...

Not sure what's going on. How heavy are you putting on your primer?? Basically you should be putting on primer coats like you'd do paint coats... several light coats building up a thicker layer, with about 30 minutes to an hour between coats (per the can instructions).

What sort of paper are you using?? The only thing I can think of is that you're not getting a good bond... are you using a paper with a coating of some type?? I know someone was talking about using a type of freezer paper for fins, and having good luck with it. The whole thing sounds like perhaps there's some sort of coating on the paper that is preventing the glue from getting a good bond between the paper and wood. Then perhaps the paper is absorbing the solvents and swelling slightly, causing wrinkles or making the paper turn loose. That's the only thing I can think of that makes sense...

More information please and I'll try to help...

Later! OL JR :)

PS... I don't CA the edges or anything... it seals up the wood pores so that the fins can't bond properly to the tube using wood glue later...



You don't need to seal the Root Edge.
 
That's basically what I use... I use Elmer's white glue to put printer paper on fins and then prime with Rusto wet sandable primer (big cans I got at a home store or WM IIRC). I also use Walmart Colorplace Primer at times as well, all with no ill effects...

I don't weigh the fins down after papering them-- I just fold the paper over the leading edge of the fin and glue it down to itself around the other three edges, and then trim it down flush to the edges... no problems whatsoever... I let the fins dry overnight and then shave the paper down flush to the edges, and then lightly sand the edges... it's all covered in the thread I did complete with lots of pics...

Not sure what's going on. How heavy are you putting on your primer?? Basically you should be putting on primer coats like you'd do paint coats... several light coats building up a thicker layer, with about 30 minutes to an hour between coats (per the can instructions).

What sort of paper are you using?? The only thing I can think of is that you're not getting a good bond... are you using a paper with a coating of some type?? I know someone was talking about using a type of freezer paper for fins, and having good luck with it. The whole thing sounds like perhaps there's some sort of coating on the paper that is preventing the glue from getting a good bond between the paper and wood. Then perhaps the paper is absorbing the solvents and swelling slightly, causing wrinkles or making the paper turn loose. That's the only thing I can think of that makes sense...

More information please and I'll try to help...

Later! OL JR :)

PS... I don't CA the edges or anything... it seals up the wood pores so that the fins can't bond properly to the tube using wood glue later...


Some of the paper I have used has printing on it. The particular fin I am having trouble with is a sheet with no printing. I am going to try to glue the edge down again, then sand and shoot another coat. I guess I need to quit trying to be cheap and recycle as much paper that comes into my house.

I CA the entire fin which IMO makes it stronger. I have noticed this on real flimsy balsa, where you can get a good 30 degree bend on raw balsa, then about 15-20 degree bend on a papered fin, then after coating with CA maybe 6-10 degree bend. It almost turns it to plastic. That really helps when you launch in an old cotton field, where the ground is rock hard, with a few scrubs of weeds, creosote bushes and mesquites. I have noticed that the paint will chip, but not the balsa. I have never broken a fin, it usually comes off at the root.

I don't CA the root edge, in fact if any gets on the root edge I sand it until it is down to raw balsa again. A few of my grandkids rockets have had every fin knocked off at least once, and the only visible sign is the edges of the Titebond sticking up a little if at all, and a little chipped paint.

I have heard that some printer paper has a coating on it to allow the ink or toner to adhere better. Maybe that is the case with my problem, I am using a coated paper. I am gluing the printed side down, because I ran into a smearing of the ink, with the printed side up, when I CA'ed the fin. This may be the problem, my next build will be with raw unprinted paper, to see if this is the cause. Although this is the first time I have had this problem.
 
You don't need to seal the Root Edge.

No, but CA wicks through balsa like anything... you can apply it to the trailing edge and it's going to work its way halfway up the root edge...

If you're going to CA seal the fin edges after papering, be sure you use a double-glue joint for attaching the fins, and apply your layer of wood glue to the root edge and let it soak in and dry FIRST... that way the CA can't fill the pore spaces that have already been sealed by wood glue, and you won't hamper the wood glue getting the best possible joint strength.

Later! OL JR :)
 
Some of the paper I have used has printing on it. The particular fin I am having trouble with is a sheet with no printing. I am going to try to glue the edge down again, then sand and shoot another coat. I guess I need to quit trying to be cheap and recycle as much paper that comes into my house.

I CA the entire fin which IMO makes it stronger. I have noticed this on real flimsy balsa, where you can get a good 30 degree bend on raw balsa, then about 15-20 degree bend on a papered fin, then after coating with CA maybe 6-10 degree bend. It almost turns it to plastic. That really helps when you launch in an old cotton field, where the ground is rock hard, with a few scrubs of weeds, creosote bushes and mesquites. I have noticed that the paint will chip, but not the balsa. I have never broken a fin, it usually comes off at the root.

I don't CA the root edge, in fact if any gets on the root edge I sand it until it is down to raw balsa again. A few of my grandkids rockets have had every fin knocked off at least once, and the only visible sign is the edges of the Titebond sticking up a little if at all, and a little chipped paint.

I have heard that some printer paper has a coating on it to allow the ink or toner to adhere better. Maybe that is the case with my problem, I am using a coated paper. I am gluing the printed side down, because I ran into a smearing of the ink, with the printed side up, when I CA'ed the fin. This may be the problem, my next build will be with raw unprinted paper, to see if this is the cause. Although this is the first time I have had this problem.

Hmmm... I know all about launching from former cotton fields... (now cow pastures-- we used to farm cotton before it got too be too much of a rich man's game).

Sounds like you're running into some sort of coating issue... perhaps the solvents are attacking the coating or something and causing a problem-- hard to say for sure. My wife got us started on using "cleanbacks" (as she and her mother called them-- using paper a second time on the back, whether it be from mail, etc...) but when it comes to papering fins, I just use a clean sheet of printer paper. We buy the cheap printer paper (20 lb bond AFAIK) at Walmart and like I said, I've had ZERO issues and I've been doing papered fins for a long time that way.

Are you CA'ing the balsa fin stock BEFORE papering the fin?? If so, that'd cause problems, because the CA basically DOES turn the balsa to a composite material (in the basic sense of the term-- a composite being a fibrous substrate soaked with a hardened resin, with the balsa being the fiberous material and the resin in this case being the hardened CA.) Wood and white glues simply don't bond well to CA-- it's about like trying to glue on plastic fins with yellow carpenter's glue or white glue-- it just don't work! (not well, anyway)... Now, if you're papering the fins FIRST and allowing them to dry overnight, using a THIN layer of white glue to paper the fins, and THEN CA-ing over the paper, then that would work very well... I've done that a time or two myself-- no problems. Personally, I'd do the first pass of a double-glue joint over the root of the fin to give the wood glue it's "best hold" by giving it first crack at the raw balsa FIRST, let that dry, and THEN do the CA coat of the paper-- just to make sure... after all, if the wood glue has already been applied and soaked into the root edge grain, it's penetrated into the wood as far as it's going to go, and there's nothing to lose if the CA soaks into the wood grain right up to where the wood glue has already penetrated. In fact, that'll probably get you the strongest fin and joint possible.

To glue the fin on, just use the second half of the double-glue joint (that I've described with pics in several threads; but there's a tutorial on papering fins heavy with pics in the Dr. Zooch Vanguard Eagle Beta Build thread, and I think I did some stuff on double glue joints with pics in the Dr. Zooch EFT-1 Beta Build thread as well...) The double glue joints are ridiculously easy, give you the speed of a fin glued on with CA (but probably at least double the strength and no weak shear plane, and no brittleness with age unlike CA), and double glue joints make THE strongest wood glue joint you can get, period... In the Vanguard Eagle thread, there should be a pic of this, but I had the upper stage go a little wonky on me on the first flight, and the rocket turned 90 degrees in midair and impacted horizontally on hard packed clay ground (former cotton field) at high speed, with one fin pointing straight down-- it was right around burnout so I don't know if it was still under thrust or not, but it hit HARD... the front outer 1/4 of the papered fin (trapezoidal) from the leading edge back and tip edge in took the brunt of the impact and disintegrated-- the wood and paper were physically ground to dust-- and then the fin snapped off... More correctly, the glue joint did not fail... the fin didn't break-- the layers of the paper tube RIPPED OFF about halfway through the thickness of the tube... the fin root, dry yellow wood glue, and lightly sanded glassine layer of the tube were all perfectly intact, complete with the undamaged TMTG fillet-- the layers of the paper tube let go of one another and let the fin come off with half of it. Totally fixable, and flew again later without incident. Just had to cut and paper a new fin, and build up the missing layer of paper with wood glue, sand, and repaint the damaged areas.

Anyway, hope that gives you some ideas...
Good luck with your project!

Later! OL JR :)
 
No, but CA wicks through balsa like anything... you can apply it to the trailing edge and it's going to work its way halfway up the root edge...

If you're going to CA seal the fin edges after papering, be sure you use a double-glue joint for attaching the fins, and apply your layer of wood glue to the root edge and let it soak in and dry FIRST... that way the CA can't fill the pore spaces that have already been sealed by wood glue, and you won't hamper the wood glue getting the best possible joint strength.

Later! OL JR :)



Actually, no it does'nt,("work its way halfway up the Root Edge"), or at least I have not had that problem, but since you seem to know everything, I digress.

Later!
 
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Actually, no it does'nt,("work its way halfway up the Root Edge"), or at least I have not had that problem, but since you seem to know everything, I digress.

Later!

I've done a LOT of fins and CA'd a LOT of nosecones and transitions... Yes it depends on the fin and how much CA you use, but YES IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE for CA to wick long distances through balsa...

I've done nosecones and had the stuff wick UP THROUGH the grain from the tip and flanks of the cone and try to glue the shoulder of the cone to my fingers... I've also had cones CA hardened, give them a minute or so, wipe them off with paper towel to remove any "wet" CA still clinging to them, and set them down inside a cardboard tray, and end up having them partially glue themselves to the tray due to CA wicking down through the balsa wood grain. Had to "pop" the cone off the cardboard, and it was CLEARLY visible through the bond pattern that it was CA that had WICKED down through the wood grain, not dripped or run off the cone surface (which had been wiped with a paper towel to prevent such an occurrence) that had caused them to "stick down" onto the cardboard... Now I lay a piece of wax paper in the tray to prevent such sticking. I never apply CA to the shoulder or base of the cone-- only the outer surface exposed to the airstream. (Transitions are another matter, since with a shoulder on both ends, it's nearly impossible NOT to get some CA on the smaller end of the transition-- but the smaller end is easier to sand so I don't worry about it too much.)

It's also true a lot depends on the thickness of the CA that you're using and how much you apply, as well as the grain structure of the part. Since fins should be cut with the grain running parallel to the leading edge, with the exposed grain at the root edge and the trailing edge, for the most part, it is entirely possible for CA to wick up through the grain to the root edge from the trailing edge, especially near the junction of the root and trailing edges where the grain is particularly short. Softer, larger-pored balsas are more prone to long wicking than harder, denser, smaller-grained (smaller pores) types of balsa... I normally use "water thin" ultra-thin CA in the pink bottles from Hobby Lobby to harden balsa parts, which is a normal thing I do in EVERY kit with balsa parts (except fins which I usually paper for reasons already mentioned, though sometimes I CA harden the fins after papering them) and the ultra-thin is PARTICULARLY good at wicking deeply into balsa grain-- you can just watch it "drink the stuff in" as you apply it! If you're using a thicker CA formulation, then you're correct, it would not be as prone to wicking deeply into balsa parts.

Nevertheless, ANY CA on the root edge is going to impede getting a good glue penetration and joint strength with wood or white glues, period. That's a fact.

Now, if you have EVIDENCE (anecdotal or otherwise) to the contrary, I'm listening. If you simply want to continue to be insulting, I see no point bothering to continue...

Good luck on your projects! OL JR :)
 
Hmmm... I know all about launching from former cotton fields... (now cow pastures-- we used to farm cotton before it got too be too much of a rich man's game).

Sounds like you're running into some sort of coating issue... perhaps the solvents are attacking the coating or something and causing a problem-- hard to say for sure. My wife got us started on using "cleanbacks" (as she and her mother called them-- using paper a second time on the back, whether it be from mail, etc...) but when it comes to papering fins, I just use a clean sheet of printer paper. We buy the cheap printer paper (20 lb bond AFAIK) at Walmart and like I said, I've had ZERO issues and I've been doing papered fins for a long time that way.

Are you CA'ing the balsa fin stock BEFORE papering the fin?? If so, that'd cause problems, because the CA basically DOES turn the balsa to a composite material (in the basic sense of the term-- a composite being a fibrous substrate soaked with a hardened resin, with the balsa being the fiberous material and the resin in this case being the hardened CA.) Wood and white glues simply don't bond well to CA-- it's about like trying to glue on plastic fins with yellow carpenter's glue or white glue-- it just don't work! (not well, anyway)... Now, if you're papering the fins FIRST and allowing them to dry overnight, using a THIN layer of white glue to paper the fins, and THEN CA-ing over the paper, then that would work very well... I've done that a time or two myself-- no problems. Personally, I'd do the first pass of a double-glue joint over the root of the fin to give the wood glue it's "best hold" by giving it first crack at the raw balsa FIRST, let that dry, and THEN do the CA coat of the paper-- just to make sure... after all, if the wood glue has already been applied and soaked into the root edge grain, it's penetrated into the wood as far as it's going to go, and there's nothing to lose if the CA soaks into the wood grain right up to where the wood glue has already penetrated. In fact, that'll probably get you the strongest fin and joint possible.

To glue the fin on, just use the second half of the double-glue joint (that I've described with pics in several threads; but there's a tutorial on papering fins heavy with pics in the Dr. Zooch Vanguard Eagle Beta Build thread, and I think I did some stuff on double glue joints with pics in the Dr. Zooch EFT-1 Beta Build thread as well...) The double glue joints are ridiculously easy, give you the speed of a fin glued on with CA (but probably at least double the strength and no weak shear plane, and no brittleness with age unlike CA), and double glue joints make THE strongest wood glue joint you can get, period... In the Vanguard Eagle thread, there should be a pic of this, but I had the upper stage go a little wonky on me on the first flight, and the rocket turned 90 degrees in midair and impacted horizontally on hard packed clay ground (former cotton field) at high speed, with one fin pointing straight down-- it was right around burnout so I don't know if it was still under thrust or not, but it hit HARD... the front outer 1/4 of the papered fin (trapezoidal) from the leading edge back and tip edge in took the brunt of the impact and disintegrated-- the wood and paper were physically ground to dust-- and then the fin snapped off... More correctly, the glue joint did not fail... the fin didn't break-- the layers of the paper tube RIPPED OFF about halfway through the thickness of the tube... the fin root, dry yellow wood glue, and lightly sanded glassine layer of the tube were all perfectly intact, complete with the undamaged TMTG fillet-- the layers of the paper tube let go of one another and let the fin come off with half of it. Totally fixable, and flew again later without incident. Just had to cut and paper a new fin, and build up the missing layer of paper with wood glue, sand, and repaint the damaged areas.

Anyway, hope that gives you some ideas...
Good luck with your project!

Later! OL JR :)


I do all of the above. I paper, let set for a day. I work wood glue in on the root edge, let set for a day. Then CA the fins, let set for a day.
As far as the paper goes, it is 20# stock, with either printing on one side or both. Most of it is things my wife brings home from her work that she has printed for me or herself.
I have a ream of 20# clean I will use on the next build.
Like I said this is the first time this has happened.
My thought on this is I may have missed that area with the white glue when papering, or I had purchased some cheapo CA at the WM and it did not absorb into the paper and wood like ZAP does, and when the thinner in the primer hit it, it turned loose.
So either way I am deciding how to re-attach the paper and continue.
 
I do all of the above. I paper, let set for a day. I work wood glue in on the root edge, let set for a day. Then CA the fins, let set for a day.
As far as the paper goes, it is 20# stock, with either printing on one side or both. Most of it is things my wife brings home from her work that she has printed for me or herself.
I have a ream of 20# clean I will use on the next build.
Like I said this is the first time this has happened.
My thought on this is I may have missed that area with the white glue when papering, or I had purchased some cheapo CA at the WM and it did not absorb into the paper and wood like ZAP does, and when the thinner in the primer hit it, it turned loose.
So either way I am deciding how to re-attach the paper and continue.

Ok... makes sense... Not a definite thing but definitely possible... See you're identified a few potential issues.

It's really important to get a good, THIN, uniform coat of white glue on either the entire surface of the paper where the fin will be bonded to it, or a thin uniform coat on the fin itself. Usually you can get a MUCH thinner layer of glue on the paper... the wood pores take in a lot of white glue and leave a lot on the surface even if you "rub it in and wipe off the excess". The main thing, whichever way you do it, is to have AS THIN A LAYER OF WHITE GLUE as you can possibly get... too much glue will cause the paper to wrinkle and soften, and actually weakens the bond. I usually put a few drops of white glue (depending on the size of the fin to be papered) on the area where the paper will be applied to the fin, and spread it with my finger in a widening circle, then slide my finger back and forth over it to ensure it's all even and completely covered, and spread the glue out as uniformly as possible. Then I stick the fin down to it, and roll it over the leading edge onto the other half of the paper... then burnish the whole thing down with a rounded sharpie marker... This step is ESSENTIAL to get a GOOD, STRONG, uniform bond between the paper and fin. I start at the center of the leading edge and work my way out toward the root, tip, and trailing edges of the fin, burnishing it down tight against the wood, and squeezing ANY excess glue out to the edges where it will be shaved away later. I run the sharpie over the edges to basically glue the paper down to itself, sealing the fin inside the paper... That ensures that the paper is pulled down TIGHT over the edges of the fin so it will bond strongly to the wood core. Then it's just a simple matter of cutting the paper back to about 1/4 inch of the fin edge, and then shaving it down the rest of the way with a SHARP hobby knife.

The other thing that might bear consideration is the quality of your glue... I'm still using the older Elmer's white glue... I haven't tried the new stuff yet. I presume that you're actually using WHITE glue and NOT SCHOOL GLUE... that stuff can be VERY iffy on bonds... You might want to try some Aileene's Tacky Glue instead if you suspect a problem with the white glue...

I don't really see the need to wait 24 hours after applying CA to do anything... CA cures basically within minutes... reacts with moisture IIRC, so unless you're working in single-digit humidity and cold temperatures, the CA should be fully cured within an hour I'd say. Of course waiting overnight isn't going to hurt anything... nice safety margin I suppose. It's POSSIBLE that the CA is causing some problem, since it seemed okay until you hit it with the CA, but I'd tend to think that the problem is something else... a poor white glue bond or missed spot that didn't get white glue sounds more likely. One other issue-- CA releases HEAT while curing, so much so that I've had balsa (that probably had absorbed some moisture deep into the wood or something) actually smoke or steam during CA hardening when I was flooding it with CA... If the part is getting warm, that would soften the white glue, though the bond shouldn't release... in fact, if there is dry white glue under there, the heat should actually soften the white glue and if the parts are pressed together, they should bond as if the white glue were still liquid. There was a process to make your own tubes using a thin application of white glue allowed to dry on the paper strips, roll the strips into tubes around a mandrel, and then "iron" the layered sheets together (obviously with the dried glue between layers of paper)... the iron (old clothes iron or monokote film iron) would heat and soften the dry white glue and reactivate it, and press the layers together with the softened glue, welding them into one part. Just something to consider I guess... not likely, but not impossible either.

The CA SHOULD soak into the paper, but if it's slick or glossy paper or completely printed over, and if the printer ink or toner or whatever "seals" off the paper so the CA can't soak in, then it COULD cause a problem... that's why I'd advise NOT using the printed paper for fins... it just adds more chemistry to the mix that could cause problems... The "cheap" CA shouldn't be a problem unless it's a thick or gel type... I use the cheapest stuff I can get in the water-thin variety, which works out to the pink bottle stuff from Hobby Lobby on the 40% off coupon... works great, no complaints.

Hope this helps and good luck! OL JR :)
 
I usually allow a 24hr dry time due to other things that come up or another model I am working on at the time. This model is a TLP Hawk. I have been working off and on since last September. I am working on finishing it for the end of the month for my clubs Desert Heat event.

IIRC my last bottle of Elmers was the "New Formula", I picked up at Loews. I no longer have the bottle it was empty, as I refill a smaller bottle I keep on my bench. The cheapo CA, I picked up from the WM, I know did not absorb into the paper and wood, because I ran out of ZAP halfway through one fin. When I applied the cheapo stuff, it just sat on the surface, and took an hour to dry. So, off to Hobby Town to get the good stuff. I have kind of become a connoisseur of CA's over the years. 30 years ago I built RC planes, and used Hot Stuff, then I don't what happened to them, but ZAP came along to replace them. That stuff that comes in the triangular shaped bottle is IMO worthless, I made the mistake of buying some of that to finish building a wing on a 1/6 scale P-51, and CRASH right after take-off. On the first turn, that half of wing I used that stuff on, folded up and she spiraled into ground. Needless to say that was the last time I used that brand, and threw away what I had left. ZAP has never let me down.

Anyways, I am off to try and finish this model for the end of the month.
I thank you very much for all the information you have provided.

P.S. I looked up Hot Stuff and they are still in business, just not sold here.
 
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I usually allow a 24hr dry time due to other things that come up or another model I am working on at the time. This model is a TLP Hawk. I have been working off and on since last September. I am working on finishing it for the end of the month for my clubs Desert Heat event.

IIRC my last bottle of Elmers was the "New Formula", I picked up at Loews. I no longer have the bottle it was empty, as I refill a smaller bottle I keep on my bench. The cheapo CA, I picked up from the WM, I know did not absorb into the paper and wood, because I ran out of ZAP halfway through one fin. When I applied the cheapo stuff, it just sat on the surface, and took an hour to dry. So, off to Hobby Town to get the good stuff. I have kind of become a connoisseur of CA's over the years. 30 years ago I built RC planes, and used Hot Stuff, then I don't what happened to them, but ZAP came along to replace them. That stuff that comes in the triangular shaped bottle is IMO worthless, I made the mistake of buying some of that to finish building a wing on a 1/6 scale P-51, and CRASH right after take-off. On the first turn, that half of wing I used that stuff on, folded up and she spiraled into ground. Needless to say that was the last time I used that brand, and threw away what I had left. ZAP has never let me down.

Anyways, I am off to try and finish this model for the end of the month.
I thank you very much for all the information you have provided.

P.S. I looked up Hot Stuff and they are still in business, just not sold here.

Ok, good luck... glad to help if I can...

Yeah, I need to get my nekkid TLP Maverick gussied up... she's got papered fins and boy that's a LOT of lumber acreage to cover in paper lemme tell ya! Definitely puts your papering skills to the test... I wasn't TOTALLY happy with my leading edges (they're only about a mile long on that kit, and I left the fins "square" edged to appear more 'scale like', so that increases the difficulty of getting the paper to wrap around nice and neat-- the edges aren't absolutely smooth in a couple spots, I'd like for it to have been a little bit better, but I'm okay with it... it's not "awful" or anything.

My main problem is where to get the decals or how to decal the thing so it looks right... or at least 'mostly right'...

I've got a TLP Hawk in my kit crate that I didn't even remember having... gotta get after it I guess...

See what wonderful surprises turn up when you do spring cleaning and clean up "rocket world" (as my daughter calls my work space)...

Later! OL JR :)
 
Another thing I found is the first few coats of primer/paint need to be light. If I try a heavy coat first I've run into some issues.
 
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