Missing Airliner

chadrog said:

Oh no? You must not have listened to Coast to Coast AM tonight.

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No, I don't wear tinfoil hats. Neither do 99.9% of the people on this rocketry forum. And I was talking about this forum, not anywhere else.

Again, try to keep this discussion civil and sane.

There are other forums out there if anyone wants to go beyond that.

- George Gassaway

georgegassaway said:

No, I don't wear tinfoil hats. Neither do 99.9% of the people on this rocketry forum. And I was talking about this forum, not anyonwhre else.

Again, try to keep this discussion civil and sane.

There are other forums out there if anyone wants to go beyond that.

- George Gassaway

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I'm not saying it's true, false, right, or wrong, I'm just saying they're talking about it - contrary to what you claim. That's all.

chadrog said:

I'm not saying it's true, false, right, or wrong, I'm just saying they're talking about it - contrary to what you claim. That's all.

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What part of I was talking about this forum, not anywhere* else, do you not understand?.

That's all.

- George Gassaway

* OK, so I did have a typo originally when I typed "anywhere". But did not have a typo when I said I was talking about this forum (as in TRF).

georgegassaway said:

What part of I was talking about this forum, not anywhere else, do you not understand?.

That's all.

- George Gassaway

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Rereading your post, you never mentioned that.

Interesting... The Malaysian military tracked the 777 on an alternate course for nearly an hour after the last civilian radio contact.

Yeah, CNN was focused on this all afternoon.....seems the plane turned around, flew controlled for over an hour until last seen off a small island....someone turned off the transponders and turned it around.....hmmmmm....

Fred Garvin said:

Yeah, CNN was focused on this all afternoon.....seems the plane turned around, flew controlled for over an hour until last seen off a small island....someone turned off the transponders and turned it around.....hmmmmm....

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Now they are saying that didn't happen, don't know who to believe

Fred Garvin said:

Yeah, CNN was focused on this all afternoon.....seems the plane turned around, flew controlled for over an hour until last seen off a small island....someone turned off the transponders and turned it around.....hmmmmm....

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Perhaps it changed Course in a futile attempt to escape the Aliens, who had disabled its Transponders and Comms Gear.

georgegassaway said:

No.

This apparent tragedy is too serious to joke about.

Or for the tinfoil hat wearing loonies to jump in.

- George Gassaway

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I am usually one of the first to joke about any given topic, but I agree, this is not a topic for humor. Most likely all these people are in their graves at the bottom of the sea. And even if the more speculative theories are taken seriously, the passengers and crew are in serious jeopardy, and their situation is no joke. I'm sure their fate will be found out by the investigation in time.

I am not going to be surprised if the gubernment already knows exactly where the plane is, but are not releasing any info to keep the powers of military tracking completely in secret. Do you get what I mean?

blackbrandt said:

I am not going to be surprised if the gubernment already knows exactly where the plane is, but are not releasing any info to keep the powers of military tracking completely in secret. Do you get what I mean?

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I agree. Undoubtably there was someones Military Submarine in the Area for some reason, and odds are the Crew of that Vessel at the very least knows if it Smacked into the Water or not.

Now they're reporting both....the turn around story and the denial of it. Clearly someone is hiding something. Vietnam has pulled out of the search effort until Malaysia gets their act together.

blackbrandt said:

I am not going to be surprised if the gubernment already knows exactly where the plane is, but are not releasing any info to keep the powers of military tracking completely in secret. Do you get what I mean?

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*If* it is "safely" on the ground, and if the government knows about it, there is another good reason to deny it. If the bad guys know what you know, its a lot harder for special forces folks to launch any kind of surprise.

Here’s something different to consider. How many times has a disaster been caused by a series of small unrelated errors and or malfunctions?

Consider a scenario similar to that of the Payne Stewart mishap.

A slow loss of cabin pressure due to an electrical fault of ruptured bellows, and a malfunction of the environmental warning, would cause the pax and crew to simply fall asleep. This would explain the loss of communication. In addition, maintenance in this part of the world is not exactly the best. It’s common to have warning circuits disabled if a redundant system is still working, or the system in not considered vital to flight.

With the auto pilot on, the plane would continue on its course until it ran out of fuel, unless a slumping or partially incapacitated crew member applied enough pressure to the control yoke to override the auto pilot, and put the plane in a gentle descent. This would explain the loss of altitude and course deviation, if a deviation took place at all. The VCAF contends that they tracked the aircraft on a westerly course.

The plane gently bellies in on smooth shallow water, remaining intact, and sinks to the bottom. Since an airliner has a pressure hull, it could withstand submergence as the malfunctioning outflow valves allow the cabin to flood. Since we gain 1 atmosphere every 60 feet, the pressure hull could easily withstand 2 atmospheres of pressure so long as incoming water continues to compress the trapped air. This would explain why there is no or little debris to locate. It may also explain why some cell phones appear to be working.

Aircraft landing intact under autopilot control is not as unusual as one might think. While in the USAF, I was required to read all aircraft mishap reports. During my tenure, there was about a dozen instances where aircraft belly landed in the desert under autopilot, then repaired and returned to service. In some instances the aircraft landed without a pilot. In one case, the aircraft was located with the engine running at idle. Apparently the pilot just wanted to take a ride in the ejection seat. Ooops!

It turns out we received two reports from the engines before it vanished. We received the broadcasts as it was taking off and during the ascent.

It's doubtful they would help solve the mystery unless a report indicated a major issue.

First mention of an "Unidentified Object" in the Area at the Time of the dissapearence just barely on "The Real Story With Gretchen Carlson".

Its suspicious that someone shut off the NARCA and the transponders these don't fail or break plus what about that turn it made? The Malaysians knew about it since day one and Malaysia is known for terrorist organizations and the government is actively fighting terrorism there....

I was thinking the same thing....Payne Stewart again.....something, a fire maybe...they turn back but something causes sudden unconsciousness and rapid death of all aboard....but plane keeps on going....

33 ft of seawater = 1Atm
34 ft of freshwater = 1atm

33' depth of seawater = 2Atm, 66'=3; 99'=4.....

Fred Garvin said:

I was thinking the same thing....Payne Stewart again.....something, a fire maybe...they turn back but something causes sudden unconsciousness and rapid death of all aboard....but plane keeps on going....

33 ft of seawater = 1Atm
34 ft of freshwater = 1atm

33' depth of seawater = 2Atm, 66'=3; 99'=4.....

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I'ts been 30 years since my last dive. I couldn't remember wat it was about 60ft. Now that you mentioed 33ft, the magic of 60 is you can dive all day without decompressing.

Still, the hull should take 2 atm easy, unlimited if it's flooded.

THe fact that we onlu received normal reports from the engines tells me that whatever happened, the engines remained within normal operating parameters up to the point that something catastrophic happened. If it were engine related, we would have received a report from the engine that was experiancing the problem.

VonMises said:

I'ts been 30 years since my last dive.

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Sounds like you're due for a SCUBA Review!

I think they mentioned that the depth in the search area (1 of them anyway) was 165 to 250....6+ ATM is a lot to ask.....

VonMises said:

, the magic of 60 is you can dive all day without decompressing.

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60' for 55 mins.......

Fred Garvin said:

60' for 55 mins.......

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I have no idea where my dive tables are. I'd sure like to take it up again. I got certified through rescue diving in college. Open water was 1 credit, then advanced open water and rescue diving was 1 credit. At the time it was $65 a credit hour at IU. So I couldn't pass it up. The rescue diving course was difficult because I got paired with an instructor that was an ex-seal. He made the paniced diver rescue problematic.

The last time I went sport diving, we went down several times that day and stayed until out tanks were near empty. 60 was our max, and I know I didn't decompress because I've never been on a decompression dive. Am I simply remembering that wrong too?

VonMises said:

I have no idea where my dive tables are. I'd sure like to take it up again. I got certified through rescue diving in college. Open water was 1 credit, then advanced open water and rescue diving was 1 credit. At the time it was $65 a credit hour at IU. So I couldn't pass it up. The rescue diving course was difficult because I got paired with an instructor that was an ex-seal. He made the paniced diver rescue problematic.

The last time I went sport diving, we went down several times that day and stayed until out tanks were near empty. 60 was our max, and I know I didn't decompress because I've never been on a decompression dive. Am I simply remembering that wrong too?

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Sounds like my Grandfather who was one of the founding members of the Navy SEALs was a member of UDT 12 which was disbanded in 1962 and the SEALs were established not a lot of people passed his course...

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Why do commercial aircraft transponders even have an 'off' button?

vcp said:

Why do commercial aircraft transponders even have an 'off' button?

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Because they can malfunction and send out incorrect information, or fail due to a component failure. Many planes have 2, one primary and one backup on standby. If the first malfunctions, it is shut off and the second is switched from standby to active.

Another reason is that when landing, the proximity of many aircraft with transponders can cause radar clutter issues so it is not uncommon for ATC to request that the transponders be shut off on final approach after the runway is visually acquired.

blackbrandt said:

I am not going to be surprised if the gubernment already knows exactly where the plane is, but are not releasing any info to keep the powers of military tracking completely in secret. Do you get what I mean?

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Well thought out, Junior Member!
No, I don't get what you mean. Can you elaborate?

If organizations like NORAD have been tracking the plane, and know exactly where it is, and then release that information immediately, other countries now know the power of the US tracking. If they wait, then other countries have to guess more on the US tracking powers.



Another thing I thought of, I am also not going to be surprised if this plane turns up in a month or so, laden with bombs, and crashes into a building. If this is true, it is probably hiding away on some deserted island.

Still, the hull should take 2 atm easy, unlimited if it's flooded.

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Airliners are designed to handle about 0.5 atm (4-8PSI) of pressure on the INSIDE. The valves do not allow for more pressure on the outside of the plane than on the inside. They also have a safety valve that vents the pressure when on the ground so you can't blow the doors open. (Some doors also have a vent system built in)
I suppose it might survive 2 atm of pressure, but it would soon fill up with water.

blackbrandt said:

Another thing I thought of, I am also not going to be surprised if this plane turns up in a month or so, laden with bombs, and crashes into a building. If this is true, it is probably hiding away on some deserted island.

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As I said in my first thread that plane will not get within 20 miles of the U.S. before it is intercepted and brought down by force.
I do agree with the theory of a gentile, shallow glide into the ocean. Look at the Hudson River incident. The plane landed in that river intact. So it is plausible it is still in one piece.
For those who like to read, read the book The Lion by Nelson DeMille. It opens with an airliner landing under autopilot. My mom said it was the blueprint for 9-11, but I did not see it. It is a good read though.

Folks, I very much doubt that if the plane was in some fantasy land stolen and squirreled away somewhere for use as a terrorist weapon, that the target would be the mainland U.S.. There's lots of crazies out there, and lots of targets of opportunity. Even if they did use it against the mainland US, it would be almost out of fuel by then... still powerful but not the same as the flying gascans that took down the Towers.