Speedy Gonzales Build

SinfulDarkLord said:

The thickness varied to be honest. Mostly at 0.05", I should have used seven layers. The compression really does a good job of reducing the thickness and of course getting rid of the excess resin.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

Click to expand...

The advantage of vacuum bagging over clamping for plate is to apply even pressure and have consistent thickness, just so you know.

CarVac said:

The advantage of vacuum bagging over clamping for plate is to apply even pressure and have consistent thickness, just so you know.

Click to expand...

I am well aware of that. I used two C-clamps perhaps even using 4 would have allowed for the even pressure.

I'll be staying with this method until I can get me a vac pump or a vac generator and use it with my gramps air compressor. Those two items are the expensive parts when it comes to vac bagging.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

flynfrog said:

I fixed the link

https://metalsupermarkets.com/

Click to expand...

Thanks flynfrog,

I went to check it out and looks like I could have bought me a 5' aluminum tube for $20. I spent $25 on the blue tube, man what a waste.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

CarVac said:

The advantage of vacuum bagging over clamping for plate is to apply even pressure and have consistent thickness, just so you know.

Click to expand...

I haven't made a lot of plate in the past, but my experience is that the thickness can vary with bagging too. I think if I were trying to make some plate, I'd use a couple of tiles, put some spacers around the perimeter, and then try to figure out the maximum number of layers I could use for a given thickness of the spacers. I'd bag the tiles rather than use clamps though.

Jim

This question is off topic, but I'll ask it anyways. Is fiberglass glass? My friend is arguing that it is not glass. Hopefully one of you knows and please if you can provide proof.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

From the ever reliable internets (plural deliberately added)
fi·ber·glass
ˈfībərˌglas/Submit
noun
1.
a reinforced plastic material composed of glass fibers embedded in a resin matrix.
2.
a textile fabric made from woven glass filaments.

It's glass all right. By the way the fibers in fiberoptic cables are also glass.

TomSmith58 said:

From the ever reliable internets (plural deliberately added)
fi·ber·glass
ˈfībərˌglas/Submit
noun
1.
a reinforced plastic material composed of glass fibers embedded in a resin matrix.
2.
a textile fabric made from woven glass filaments.

It's glass all right. By the way the fibers in fiberoptic cables are also glass.

Click to expand...

He too was arguing that fiber optics was not glass. He was mistaking it with window glass. I told him that fiberglass is still glass just in a fiber form. Their physically different, but it is still glass.

I swear some people

Thanks Tom


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

SinfulDarkLord said:

The thickness varied to be honest. Mostly at 0.05", I should have used seven layers. The compression really does a good job of reducing the thickness and of course getting rid of the excess resin.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

Click to expand...

Yes, compression works well. As long as you compress it evenly you can get layers not 1 mil thicker than the cloth thickness. I've made motor casings from Soller's 4.1 oz uni that are <7 mils per layer over a MoS2 impregnated nylon mandrel using Soller's heat shrink tubing. The commercial 3K CF plates I order from ACP are 9 mils per layer which is the cloth thickness. It is made in 5' x 10' sheet in a 190 ton hot laminating press.

Bob

I have a question, what is the difference between a seamless aluminum round tube and a non-seamless one?


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

seamless will be extruded seamed will be rolled and welded.

flynfrog said:

seamless will be extruded seamed will be rolled and welded.

Click to expand...

Pretty much the seamed tube with have that welded line on it and I will need to sand it down?


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

I just ordered a 2.125" aluminum tube for my build here-
https://www.dxengineering.com/searc...d=2.125 tube&sortby=Default&sortorder=Default

I'll let you know how it looks when I get it.

I switched from paper to metal at flyinfrog's suggestion. Now that I see you had trouble getting a straight tube with paper I'm glad I made the switch.

it will probably be fine

watheyak said:

I just ordered a 2.125" aluminum tube for my build here-
https://www.dxengineering.com/searc...d=2.125 tube&sortby=Default&sortorder=Default

I'll let you know how it looks when I get it.

I switched from paper to metal at flyinfrog's suggestion. Now that I see you had trouble getting a straight tube with paper I'm glad I made the switch.

Click to expand...

The problem with paper is that somehow a certain few will come out defective. Despite blue tube having its share of warping issues my tube is not of that case. David has been generous enough to send me centering rings in an attempt to make it straight, but after using 4 CR's and getting a bent carbon tube I am not convinced it can be fixed. I am also not pleased that he blamed it on the warping and didnt bother to ask me to return him the defective one and send a replacement. I dont know why I just feel like I have been suckered.

Keep me updated when you get it. I will eventually look into making 54mm carbon tubes as well.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

Thought this thread could use a spark. Nothing too much, but a good write up describing the plan for the tip to tip.

First up is getting the tip to tip to contour to the curve of the fillet.



Best solution for me was to cut slits on the carbon. In order to get this right I cut out a template and marked the areas where the slits would go. Along with the template I was able to cut the peel ply with a hobby knife. The peel ply template is larger to cover extended areas of the carbon that will be trimmed down after the tip to tip. Note that the peel ply also has slits.



Finally it hit me that I had some lightweight glass on my table and thought why not include a veil layer to make it easier to not sand into the carbon fibers.



The tip to tip will come in soon. First I want to get me a rotary cutter since cutting glass with a hobby knife is really annoying being careful not to fray the edges.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

I wanted to make improvements for my tip to tip and so I decided on using a peel ply that allows for secondary bonding. This way I am assured the tip to tip is bonded properly.

I had some left over scraps of the first peel ply I bought and I cut three pieces of peel ply to be applied.



Next up I mixed 25 grams of epoxy and I tape the areas where I didnt want the epoxy to get to. After that I applied all three pieces of peel ply to the area most needed for secondary bonding.



More details to follow tomorrow


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

Forgot to post the results here. I had one good side.



The other sides had a few bonding issues on one of the fins and on some parts of the glass tube.



I am just going to roll with what I have. On another note, for the actual tip to tip I wanted to have extensions on the peel ply so the seams of the carbon will be flat.

A new template was created and at the same time used the template to make the peel ply cut out. Since the peel ply has tracers, I used this to my advantage. Having one of the tracers run through the center will help in alignment of the peel ply.



More to come later.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

looks are only skin deep.

I cut strips and lay them on the fin filets area. The strips are about 1/4 longer on each end. The next pieces is just a long rectangle piece that covers the body tube section. This over laps the filet pieces about 3/8 of an inch. The final pieces is one to cover the remaining surface of the fins themselves. I then thin down some of the epoxy and brush it onto the peel ply. This brings up or wets out any spots that are to wet or too dry. The final step is to make a 1/2" slit...razor blade.. at the beginning and end of the peel ply that is on the fin filets. Then dip a gloved finger in your thinned down epoxy and run it along the filets. You can feel any high spots and smooth them out. "stuff" can ooze out then ends if you added to much during the layup. The slits allow it to lay down much better then with out the cuts. The multiple pieces of peel ply conform much better then one piece alone.

Tony

I don't quite get why you would apply peel ply before your tip to tip. The epoxy from this peel ply layer is supposed to help with secondary bonding, however it doesn't look like you bond prepped before the application of this peel ply so that first epoxy layer will be prone to break away from your fin material, along with your tip to tip.
It doesn't really matter, you don't really need T2T anyway.

Alex

Aksrockets said:

I don't quite get why you would apply peel ply before your tip to tip. The epoxy from this peel ply layer is supposed to help with secondary bonding, however it doesn't look like you bond prepped before the application of this peel ply so that first epoxy layer will be prone to break away from your fin material, along with your tip to tip.
It doesn't really matter, you don't really need T2T anyway.

Alex

Click to expand...

The idea was to promote a layer for secondary bonding before the initial tip to tip to aid in bonding. Not the other way around. I do not know why this layer stripped away with the peel ply. I had made certain the surface was prepped for bonding.

I am certain I do not need the tip to tip. However, I am just taking extra measures in terms of having it last longer, before it gives up. I also want it for the cosmetic look.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

tfish said:

looks are only skin deep.

I cut strips and lay them on the fin filets area. The strips are about 1/4 longer on each end. The next pieces is just a long rectangle piece that covers the body tube section. This over laps the filet pieces about 3/8 of an inch. The final pieces is one to cover the remaining surface of the fins themselves. I then thin down some of the epoxy and brush it onto the peel ply. This brings up or wets out any spots that are to wet or too dry. The final step is to make a 1/2" slit...razor blade.. at the beginning and end of the peel ply that is on the fin filets. Then dip a gloved finger in your thinned down epoxy and run it along the filets. You can feel any high spots and smooth them out. "stuff" can ooze out then ends if you added to much during the layup. The slits allow it to lay down much better then with out the cuts. The multiple pieces of peel ply conform much better then one piece alone.

Tony

Click to expand...

This should save me some troubles. I will give it a try.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

SinfulDarkLord said:

The idea was to promote a layer for secondary bonding before the initial tip to tip to aid in bonding.

Click to expand...

That's what I was saying....

Actually, Peel ply isn't ideal for secondary bonding. Even though peel ply creates more surface area for the epoxy to bond to, the ability for the epoxy to "wet" into the peel ply's surface isn't as good as a properly prepared surface. You would get better results by sanding with 80-150 grit. Of course, this is just for future reference, most T2T with peel ply will break the carbon long before the bond gives out.

How did you bond prep before this first epoxy layer?

Alex

Aksrockets said:

That's what I was saying....

Actually, Peel ply isn't ideal for secondary bonding. Even though peel ply creates more surface area for the epoxy to bond to, the ability for the epoxy to "wet" into the peel ply's surface isn't as good as a properly prepared surface. You would get better results by sanding with 80-150 grit. Of course, this is just for future reference, most T2T with peel ply will break the carbon long before the bond gives out.

How did you bond prep before this first epoxy layer?

Alex

Click to expand...

I had sanded down on the tube until the 8HS weave was visible. For the carbon I sanded down enough to where the fibers were getting scratched, but did not remove the layer of epoxy.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

Looks like my tip to tip is going to have to wait until I can get some tighter weave carbon. I tried to do it last night and the fibers were spreading apart and looked like a fishing net. I could even see the glass tube through the weave. I did not like that one bit.

Will update later on. Probably until next week.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

Update to this bird. Still felt the need for more strength. Made a tip to tip with the 6oz. Tight woven fiberglass cloth from acp composites. I oriented the fibers at a 45 degree angle to provide the extra strength. Turned out good, now I just need to remove that excess material.




Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

That looks very nice. Have done all sides yet?


Because I am addicted, this is coming from my phone.

grouch said:

That looks very nice. Have done all sides yet?


Because I am addicted, this is coming from my phone.

Click to expand...

Yes all sides have been glassed. I did it all at once.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

Excess material removed and judging from the thickness of the fins. I got nothing to worry about.




Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

Decided to make my own e-bay sled. 8 layers of tightly woven 6oz. glass. I used peel ply on one side to allow for better bonding when glued to the brass rod.




Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet