Max Q Aerospace 54mm fin cans!

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jolevich said:
Hello Mike, going the wrong way (smaller) for me, I have your 4 " fin can ( love it) and want to try and get you to make me a 6" and/or 8 " fin can.
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6" is no problem, I'm currently making one for a NASA competition project. 8" might be a problem with my current metal forming equipment.
 
I have an HPR noob question for you. Model rocketry frowns upon the use of metal parts on rockets. I take it that metal fins on HPR is legitimate? I understand the need, just wondering if this will significantly reduce fields I can fly at.

Also have a product question, which seems obvious but rather not assume. How easy is it to completely disassemble for polishing? I figure after a few flights, will need to go back and repolish parts.
 
Performance nut said:
I have an HPR noob question for you. Model rocketry frowns upon the use of metal parts on rockets. I take it that metal fins on HPR is legitimate? I understand the need, just wondering if this will significantly reduce fields I can fly at.

Also have a product question, which seems obvious but rather not assume. How easy is it to completely disassemble for polishing? I figure after a few flights, will need to go back and repolish parts.
Click to expand...

Metal parts are ok if the flight profile shows a need for it. Using it on a mid-power flight might be an "issue" with your RSO/LCO. These were developed with extreme flight profiles in mind, ie minimum diameter, high impulse etc. Disassembly is as simple as unbolting it, but slightly more force has to be used to break the screws free because I provide loctite to use on the screws during assembly.

If you are just needing to touch up the matte finish, an orbital sander will do just fine. If you are talking polish, that is a whole nother animal. It takes me about 10 to 12 hours to polish one to a mirror like finish and many techniques are used. Polishing aluminum is an art that takes a lot of practice and patience.
 
Binder Design said:
If you are talking polish, that is a whole nother animal. It takes me about 10 to 12 hours to polish one to a mirror like finish and many techniques are used. Polishing aluminum is an art that takes a lot of practice and patience.
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More along the lines that if you get a polished fin can, how easy will it be to restore the polished finish after a few flights dull/blemish the finish. Polishing it on the airframe seems like it would be a pain and never really shine like new, taking it apart and polishing it seems like it would be easier and achieve better results.
 
Performance nut said:
More along the lines that if you get a polished fin can, how easy will it be to restore the polished finish after a few flights dull/blemish the finish. Polishing it on the airframe seems like it would be a pain and never really shine like new, taking it apart and polishing it seems like it would be easier and achieve better results.
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Well that depends. If you just get some hairline scratches, a good metal polish can remove them. Anything deeper and it must be "cut back" with emery paper basically starting over. Like landing damage with deep scratches will need started over from square one. Also, the bands are polished before bending because it would be really hard to get in the creases of the bends. Polished aluminum scratches very easily. The decorative finishes are a better option. They do not show scratches as easily and IMO are nicer looking. But if you want a show piece or hanger queen, nothing beats the polish.
 
I would buy a 38 also.


Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum

I hate all these ads.
 
Binder Design said:
I haven't tried yet, but since you are interested I will put it near the top of the list. And I really want one for myself too. :)
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Yes please, sign me up! I've had a 38mm min-dia project on slow-build for a while...I have two other 38mm fin-cans each with different drawbacks but a MaxQ 38 would easily be "the one" :)
 
Now available to fit motor casings in 98mm, 75mm, and 98mm. Working out the 38mm version. The smaller diameters are much harder to produce, luckily they use less material so pricing will be pretty good on the 38's.
 
38mm bands fresh off the press. The ones in the photo fit 38mm casing. Just don't ask me to do 29mm. So I guess I can officially say "coming soon".

38bands.jpg
 
On 38, since the fins should be thin anyway, it might be possible to have the fin be the flange on one side of each piece. That eliminates the separate fins.

Gerald
 
G_T said:
On 38, since the fins should be thin anyway, it might be possible to have the fin be the flange on one side of each piece. That eliminates the separate fins.

Gerald
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That'd be some slick engineering for sure. Only one problem with it. The fins and bands are two different grades of aluminum because 6061 is not formable. Trust me, I tried that in development. I could not get the radius in 6061, and then I tried putting it in the brake and snapped it in half. I went though many hundreds of dollars worth of aluminum sheet before coming up with the right combination of metal and tooling and sizing formulas. Dialing in the CNC speeds and feeds took a lot of broken carbide too, but I stuck with it. Now I can load up the machine and leave it unattended until it shuts off.

That first 4" fin can that was commissioned by a good friend of mine took me six months to make. Luckily for me he is a patient person. Many times I say I can do something for someone when I have no clue how I'm going to do it. I ended up building a CNC with a $500 total budget just to get started. Then taught myself how to do CAM and G-code processing to run the thing. Then I had to teach myself how to form sheet metal which I had never done before.
 
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Very nice. I think he said orders are pending. Coming soon is listed above.
 
Hey Mike. Would be cool to learn more about your budget CNC setup. I've been giving this a lot of thought myself. Can you share any basic details such as what machine you started out with and if you used a CNC retrofit kit or just pieced it together? We can take this offline if you like. Thanks Mike.
 
pyrobob said:
Hey Mike. Would be cool to learn more about your budget CNC setup. I've been giving this a lot of thought myself. Can you share any basic details such as what machine you started out with and if you used a CNC retrofit kit or just pieced it together? We can take this offline if you like. Thanks Mike.
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I bought a plan set and built it from dumpster parts. www.solsylva.com is where I got the plans. My machine is featured in the gallery section there. Everybody is building CNC's and 3D printers these days. Bragging rights about owning a CNC these days are no good, everybody has one. What matters is what you do with them. :)

Forgot to add that I've been toying around with making a budget conscious CNC plan set geared for rocketeers. One with a 4th axis tube slotting station built into the machine. I'm pretty experienced writing assembly manuals, but not sure I'd ever sell enough to make back my time invested. The plan set I purchased needed A LOT of modifications before it could do what I needed. If you build it per instructions, it is only good for light duty projects.
 
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Can you share some information on the fin cans to aide in simulations (until my order arrives at least.) Mass, diameter/thickness of the bands?

I did find fin dimensions here - binderdesign.com/store/media/findims.jpg
 
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Got my 54mm fin can sized to fit motor cases yesterday. It's the first one that's been made for 54mm cases, and fits just fine.
Tpkge9U.jpg


The included aluminum fins were slotted to fit over Madcow 54mm tubing, which is basically the same thickness as the bands (~.0625")
rLhtxgx.jpg


I cut out a set of 3/32" G10 fins that are identical in size to the aluminum ones so I have less of a hassle with RSOs on test flights that aren't going that high or fast. The Al fins measure .086-.087" thick and the G10 varies between .0915" and .0945", but the bands clamp down on both just fine, and they're quite easy to swap as well.
OlP0cux.jpg


I'll be adding a section of tubing behind the fin can to act as an interstage coupler eventually, but in reality, I think the can should be able to hold itself in place at least on not super fast motors, though the instructions recommend against that.

Overall they seem very well built for a reasonable price. Chances are I'll be a repeat customer in other sizes soon :)
 
I see everyone is using nylock nuts on these. Could you not use Joint Connector Nuts. This way all you'd see would be the bolt heads which is nicer i think! Am very tempted if you ship to the uk
 
KBlack said:
Can you share some information on the fin cans to aide in simulations (until my order arrives at least.) Mass, diameter/thickness of the bands?

I did find fin dimensions here - binderdesign.com/store/media/findims.jpg
Click to expand...

The bands are .0625" for all sizes. Overkill in the smaller diameters but they match up with airframe really well for those people who want to put in on motors and have me notch the fins for the airframe to slide down against the bands.

Getting a lot of requests for bands only for people to fit their own fins. Be advised that fin thickness will determine the final assembled diameter of the fin can. So if you do this, you'll want to be very close to the same thickness of aluminum we have sized them for otherwise the fin can won't fit properly.

Also, just the bands make up 2/3 of the price of these because that is where the labor is. Anybody can make a set of flat fins with holes pretty easily. The tooling, development cost, and labor on the bands is much higher than the fins, so that is where the bulk of the cost is.
 
Pyropetepete said:
I see everyone is using nylock nuts on these. Could you not use Joint Connector Nuts. This way all you'd see would be the bolt heads which is nicer i think! Am very tempted if you ship to the uk
Click to expand...

Those are not nylock nuts, they are PEM nuts that are press inserted into the bands. Joint connector nuts don't come in the right size, nor would they lock into the bands like the PEM nut inserts. Yes, I will ship to the UK. I've already shipped some over there and several sets to AU.

And they are not bolts, they are torx screws. Round objects are more aerodynamic than hex shaped ones. :)
 
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Binder Design said:
FWIW, 38mm fin cans are now listed for ordering.
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Order placed, thank you again for developing the 38mm size!

Binder Design said:
The bands are .0625" for all sizes. Overkill in the smaller diameters but they match up with airframe really well for those people who want to put in on motors and have me notch the fins for the airframe to slide down against the bands.
Click to expand...

^For me too please, ordered bands to fit motor casing and would like fins notched to slide over airframe. Doesn't get much cleaner than that :)
 
Mike, if I gave you the O.D. of a tube could you produce the bands for me to fit?

I would be ordering the whole fin can, I just need a finished diameter between 38mm and 54mm.
 

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