Loki Research 2014

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I think they could be fun if he made a really really long one, but I remember him saying that since labor is much more important than material costs in small sizes, it wouldn't end up being worthwhile on either end of consumers or consumers. You need a lot of volume to make money on the small stuff.
 
I think they could be fun if he made a really really long one, but I remember him saying that since labor is much more important than material costs in small sizes, it wouldn't end up being worthwhile on either end of consumers or consumers. You need a lot of volume to make money on the small stuff.

Along with that, I think it'd be hard to produce something different enough to draw the number of buyers you'd need. Anything really long is going to be a super tiny market too.
 
Seems to me the sweet spot in snap ring cases starts at 38mm. I like 29mm stuff mostly because I started out with it but I don't really fly much of it anymore. That might change out of sheer novelty if Scott were to make a super long moon burning 29 or something else that isn't out there yet. How cool would it be if someone could squeeze a J into a long 29mm?
 
Seems to me the sweet spot in snap ring cases starts at 38mm. I like 29mm stuff mostly because I started out with it but I don't really fly much of it anymore. That might change out of sheer novelty if Scott were to make a super long moon burning 29 or something else that isn't out there yet. How cool would it be if someone could squeeze a J into a long 29mm?

Got one a 35" 29mm J-605 slow burn Kosdon. Wish I had the fast load it was like a J-1200
 
I had a couple awesome launches with Loki G80 motors yesterday. Unfortunately on the second I got distracted and forgot the ejection powder :( Rocket, tracker, and motor lost to the raddish gods.

But, I got some cool photos!

14917647196_29bf8f5152_z.jpg
14937558661_e2f7427a9c_z.jpg

14754016480_b1497455e7_z.jpg
14937558441_101f3d74f0_z.jpg
 
You really get some fantastic pic's Dave...
Cool load tooo...

Teddy
 
Any updates on the 54/4000 reload certifications? I'm chomping at the bit to get my hands on one or five...
 
The last I heard from TMT was, the next testing date is this weekend the 7th, with the 14th as a back up date.
More info on the Airfest demos to come... They all rocked.
 
The last I heard from TMT was, the next testing date is this weekend the 7th, with the 14th as a back up date.
More info on the Airfest demos to come... They all rocked.

Is that 38/480 violet you show on YouTube in the cert session? I would totally fly the heck out of that.
 
Grains have been cast, cut and bagged for the 38/120, 240 & 480 Cocktail and the 38/120 Red. I have to find time to get delay testing done and verify that everything works as planned. Once that is done they'll be sent off to TMT. It could be a month or so though.
 
Scott,

For EX purposes, can you provide the dimensions of your 54mm linen phenolc/graphite nozzles? I am strongly considering using one in my project for LDRS next year and would like to be able to conceptually design my motor before I order all of the parts.

The only dimensions I really need are the length of the largest diameter section where the o-ring seal is and the length of the liner shoulder.

Also, I assume that this design implements your spiral ring in lieu of a snap ring and therefore doesn't need a nozzle washer.

Thanks!
 
Dan, the overall internal length (retaining ring to propellant) of the single use 54mm LE/graphite nozzles are .725"
The liner shoulder length is .190". Yes, they do require the 2-turn spiral retaining ring and do not require a nozzle washer.

When ordering, you would need to provide me with the throat and exit diameters, and allow me at least 1 week between placing the order and it shipping out to you. It probably wouldn't take that long, but who knows what I'd have on my plate at that time. Shoot me an email if you need more information.


Edit- I've updated the website to reflect the information above on the 54mm single use nozzles.
 
Last edited:
J528 LW:

15240626985_7b7bbefbb3_c.jpg


A searing lance of yellow-white, which is like the initial spike of the I405, but sustained. Awesome.


I430 LB:

15053892139_22ec321f37_c.jpg


Longer burning than I expected. Very fast.


H160 LB:

15240632345_abfe16a6a4_c.jpg


Not so much color, but a LOT of go!
 
Flew a J820 today. 14 lb rocket on the pad, really popped. :D
drm1.jpgdrm2.jpg
 
I burned a Loki 38 mm J 528 W yesterday....
Man was I impressed....
With both the hardware and what goes in it.....
What a cool burn....
I couldn't say enough positive things....
I'll be back for more without a doubt.....

Teddy
 
Great photos guys. Thank you very much for sharing them. I'm glad you had some great flights on your Loki Research motors. Keep the launch photos coming guys!
 
Any news on the certifications?

Also, some of your existing J reloads do not appear on the NAR/TRA combined list, including the J650SF, J820 star core, and the J1000. Do you know why?
 
Hopefully TMT will get to test them this weekend or we'll go on to week 8.

Interesting on the combined motor list. Those motors are not listed, but I do see a J-750SP?? I'm guessing that's suppose to be the J-650 Spitfire, even thought the designation is SF.
On the TRA list, it shows the J-820 but not the J-1000LW or J-650SF. Guess I get to look into this while my secretary is out. Of wait..... I don't have one of those....

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
 
Any progress in updating the pictures on your website? I think that you have PLENTY of material now that you can add to entice people to buy Loki. Pictures of your hardware, propellant grains to display the variety, static tests, Mach 3 flights...
 
Website progress??? Well Dan, none. Sadly none. The biggest problem is time and money, which being the little guy leaves me with very little of both. The current website is old and in HTML script (I think) format. I've honestly never even had access to edit the current photos page. It was easier to just start a FB page. Changing/adding things to the website structure takes Greg Deputy time and for me money & more time. I just sent him an email asking about admin access and time/cost for changing some things.

We'll have to wait an see. Maybe this winter when it's freezing cold and 16" of snow on the ground, I'll feel more like staying home and changing things up a bit. ;-) Until then, I'm still trying to get 38mm Cocktail loads tested for delay times in between all the other stuff on the "to do" list. As soon as that testing is done, I'll have 4 more reloads to send off to TMT. Two G's, (1 red) and H and an I.
.
.
.
.
.
I thought I had clicked post, but I got distracted by a tiny kitten that crawled up into the undercarriage of my dually. I've spent the last 3 hours trying to get him out and now I can't find him. I chased him from the spare tire to the engine bay and back 3 times. I finally had to back the truck up 5 feet so I could more easily crawl under the mid section and I'm hoping he darted out then, but I didn't see him if he did. Now I have to go home. :-( I reeeeeally hope he's not still under there. I would have much rather taken him home, inside the truck. I don't like this at all.....
 
Well today was a bit different. I brought a little cat food with me to work this morning in the off chance that kitten came back. Replying to emails to start the day off, I thought my ears were playing tricks on my when I thought I was hearing faint meows. Come to find out, the little guy had spent the night inside the shop. He must have darted in there last night when I started the truck up. You've all heard the expression, "like finding a needle in a hay stack", well that was an under statement. After getting eyes on him twice and loosing him again while trying to move stuff out of the way to get to him, I resorted to the old trick, a box, a string and a stick. Put the food bowl underneath and less than an hour later, he was safe in the office.

Meet Loki, the cat. :) He's all skin and bones right now, and shy as can be, but we'll do our best to put some meat back on his bones. I so glad I found him and know that he's safe. I was so worried when I left last night, thinking he might still be underneath the truck still somewhere. He's in the spare bedroom now and we try to slowly get him and our other cat use to each other. I really wish it would have been a black Lab or a Husky, or some other big dog, but we don't have the room or the big yard that a big dog really needs. But if we ever do, I'm getting a big dog too. :)


That's a 120V power cord running under his arm. He should be a lot bigger than he is for his age, but he's been starving.
20140918_144909.jpg
 
He will fugure out fast that he is amongst friends, he may not know it yet but he is in for the good life.


TA
 
Ok if the weather holds I will be launching a rocket tomarrow that I build specifically for the 38mm 1200 case and the J-1000. I just finished bonding the grains to the liner and I have to admit I was a bit nervous, but after I was all done it was pretty easy.

I have to admit a small DUH moment when I was pressing the liner over the grains it started to be tough going and I was getting worried that I was not going to get the liner pushed all the way to the bottom if it was already getting this stiff!

Well as I let go of the top to get a better grip there was a nice popping sound as all the trapped compressed air shot out of the end of the liner doh!!! :bangpan: Any way after I gave the air some place to go it slid on fairly easy, it tighten up at the end but nothing I couldn't handle.

Recommendation make sure your epoxy is a true 30 min epoxy, the stuff I used ended up about 10 to 12 min even though it said 30 min. If I sucked at gluing this could have turned out bad, next time I will plan ahead better and use my good stuff that take 24 hrs to cure fully.

I cant wait to let this motor of its chain! :headbang:


Now I don't fully understand the reason the grains need to be bonded to the liner, other than to not spit the casting tubes out during firing, is that the only reason and why does it have to be epoxy?



TA
 
Well today was a bit different. I brought a little cat food with me to work this morning in the off chance that kitten came back. Replying to emails to start the day off, I thought my ears were playing tricks on my when I thought I was hearing faint meows. Come to find out, the little guy had spent the night inside the shop. He must have darted in there last night when I started the truck up. You've all heard the expression, "like finding a needle in a hay stack", well that was an under statement. After getting eyes on him twice and loosing him again while trying to move stuff out of the way to get to him, I resorted to the old trick, a box, a string and a stick. Put the food bowl underneath and less than an hour later, he was safe in the office.

Meet Loki, the cat. :) He's all skin and bones right now, and shy as can be, but we'll do our best to put some meat back on his bones. I so glad I found him and know that he's safe. I was so worried when I left last night, thinking he might still be underneath the truck still somewhere. He's in the spare bedroom now and we try to slowly get him and our other cat use to each other. I really wish it would have been a black Lab or a Husky, or some other big dog, but we don't have the room or the big yard that a big dog really needs. But if we ever do, I'm getting a big dog too. :)


That's a 120V power cord running under his arm. He should be a lot bigger than he is for his age, but he's been starving.
View attachment 184761

Glad you got little Loki back home safe. Same thing happened to my wife and I about a year ago. She had one that "hitched" a ride home under the hood of her car. I couldn't catch the little booger and he ran out from under the car and wasn't seen again. 6 months later he wonders up to me on my front porch and he's only got one ear. I figured he lost the other one to a fan blade under someone else's hood. Anyhow I still see him occasionally around the neighborhood. He's successfully lived though one winter being feral so I think he'll make it on his own just fine.
 
Now I don't fully understand the reason the grains need to be bonded to the liner, other than to not spit the casting tubes out during firing, is that the only reason and why does it have to be epoxy?

Todd, Mainly so they don't get spit out at the end of the burn. On a long motor like the 38/1200, the lower grains will always burn out before the upper grains. If they aren't held in place, they will blow through the nozzle. As well, on a high acceleration flight, G forces can squeeze the burning grains surfaces together which can accelerate the burn. When stuff goes through a nozzle, it is likely to crack it. A pressure spike from spitting a large chunk of something through the throat can be like whacking it with a hammer. It's the easiest way to crack a nozzle. The glue holds it in place and allows it to be burned away rather than blown away. I choose 30+min epoxy since it gives you the most working time and doesn't set quickly when thinned out. Also, I like West Systems because of its thin viscosity. It it easier to get it into tight spaces and is much more fluid than something like Bob Smith's Epoxy. If it's thick and viscous, it is very difficult to get things to move freely.

Last week I tried a 38mm single use nozzle without a step to hold the graphite on the bottom corner. I wanted to try relying on the glue itself and see if it would hold. And it did, for 1/2 a second. It was the neatest failure I've had in a long time, because this was a 38/1200 K-700 red. When the pressure instantly dropped, the motor instantly extinguished itself. What you see below is perfect example of how an erosive burning motor looks part way through the burn. The bottom grain had its core slightly opened up 3" from the end from 3/8 to 7/16". Also, you can see how the left grain face (head end) is flat, and how the right grain face (nozzle end) is rounded from the gas flow rushing past the corner. If I get around to it and find time, I'll post more about this in the research section.

20140915_115451.jpg 20140915_114758.jpg 20140915_115242.jpg 20140915_115643.jpg

The top 3 short grains were not glued in and I'm assuming that when the graphite throat spit out, these grains shifted a bit. This is why the spacing between the grains is different, however all three grains measured to be the same length. You will notice the top grain has regressed rather oddly, this is from the igniters. I had to light it a second time as the first one didn't do the trick. It did burn away some propellant however, as did the second igniter before the entire motor lit and the regression of the propellant surface shows this quite well.

I was also able to do another round of delay testing (XL this time) on several motors. I still have at least 1-2 more tests to do for each of these.

38/120 Loki Red
20140915_163536_1.jpg

38/120 Loki Cocktail
20140915_174430_41.jpg

38/240 Loki Cocktail
20140915_164332_11.jpg

38/480 Loki Cocktail
20140915_175240_11.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 20140915_114758.jpg
    20140915_114758.jpg
    112.5 KB · Views: 82
Last edited:
Wow, very cool.

Also, I'm really looking forward to those purple motors.
 
Back
Top