Loki Research 2014

JDcluster said:

Kosdon, AMW, nor Loki hardware were intended to work with any of the Slim Line retainers.
I inquired about this a few years back
Giant Leap never supported those Motor Makers.

Aero Pack tail cones will work with a some modification.

Click to expand...

This is true, although with a caveat. Any 38mm Loki Research hardware with a DOM date of 7/14 or later should fit all SlimLine motor retainers. The external thrust ring has been moved back .050" to accommodate these retainers. With regard to the Aeropack motor retainers, to my knowledge, I thought all diameters of Loki Research hardware has always fit these retainers. Someone please tell me if theirs doesn't fit and about how old each vendors parts are.

I'm back home now and all unpacked after a beautiful weekend of flying weather in Pawhuska, OK.

I want to say thanks to Scott at Loki. I flew two of his I405s today and they were outstanding. I know they are just I motors but they don't act like I motors. They act like I motors with a bad case of rabies contracted by drinking an infected can of Red Bull. They frighten most J motors.

Click to expand...

Thanks Gary. That is the best description I have heard yet on the I-405. "They frighten most J motors."
Here's a poor quality cell phone photo I took of Gary's flight on his I-405. I almost missed it.


And Mark Cole's Mini Mag flight on his I-405.


I missed getting photos of at least 2-3 more I-405's, and H-144 and a pair of J-712 Blues.

I did get some photos from another person of Mark Cole's Broken Arrow 5 on an M-1882 which flew to 10,096', and I hope to get photos from the newspaper woman of the same rocket on an absolutely beautiful, I mean freakin gorgeous blue M-2550 that flew to I think 10,597' the next day.



And coming down just a few hundred yards behind the pad, just like the M-2550 did.


The M-1882 flight.
[video=youtube;GW4mA2LE1kc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW4mA2LE1kc[/video]

Slow motion
[video=youtube;a7BstLfu2tY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7BstLfu2tY[/video]

A slow motion of the M-2550, at least the part I caught.
[video=youtube;XnWNgt-j3B8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnWNgt-j3B8[/video]

All though there were two cato's (J & L motors) during the 2 day commercial launch, it was another perfectly successful weekend for the Loki Research motors that were burned. Would you expect anything less from Loki Research??? I saw at least 12 or more H through M motors that I counted.

Here's two more of Mark Cole's LOC Precision "Big Nuke" on a 54/2800 K-350 Loki White.

View attachment 185766 View attachment 185767

What's different about the I405?

Click to expand...

This is something I explained a lot about for people at the launch this weekend.

The G-80 white, G-69 Spitfire, H-144 white, H-160 blue, H-90 red, H-100 Spitfire, I-210 red, I-316 Spitfire and yes, the I-405 Loki White all have "half grains" of "lifesaver" grains. They are basically the normal length grain cut in half. However, they are cut so that each of these grains contains no more than 30 grams of propellant.

The benefits to doing this are large.
1) NO HAZ_MAT FEES!!! These 9 motors can be shipped through the USPS with NO haz-mat fee. Up to a 25 lb box of these reloads may be shipped by Parcel Post through the US mail without any Haz-Mat fee. Hopefully by the end of the year there will be 2 more G motors, another H and another I motor added to the list. Next year there will be more. ;-)

2) Propellant geometry.... By cutting the standard length grains in half, the initial propellant burning surface area is increased. This created a regressive thrust profile which produces its peak thrust right at ignition. This ensures that the average rocket has plenty of thrust right of the pad so that the fins can do their job as quickly as possible giving you a strait up boost with very little weather cocking and a close to the pad recovery.

3) The WOW factor..... The WOW factor of a motor is generally when it lifts off the pad and up to where it's about a hundred feet or so off the pad. This is where a rocket makes the largest amount of visible and audible fire, smoke and noise, and THIS is where Loki Research 38's command peoples attention at the field. Since the largest amount of thrust is at ignition, these motors look, act and sound like motors twice their size of a comparable propellant type. Hence Gary's comment, "They frighten most J motors." So when thinking 405Ns average thrust, think about 800Ns of initial thrust. The thrust curves can be found on the front page of the instruction sheets here.

4) Value.... For a pair of G-80's it's $33, ($16.50 each). An H motor retails at $25 and the I motors at $40. The Spitfire equivalents are a few dollars more. Yes, the hardware is more expensive than the competition, but if you fly several of these motors per launch, you will quickly recoup the cost of the hardware as you save money on both the reloads and the shipping.

5) Reliability..... I can honestly say, I think Loki Research motors overall, any of them, are more reliable than my main competitions motors. Why???
I am Loki Research. There is no one else that works here but me to either get it right, or screw it up. There is no one else to pass the buck to. I am responsible for everything, me, personally. Because it is my company and my personal reputation that is on the line, I take everything that I do very seriously, and when it comes to making the propellant, I am in complete control of the entire process. If I have any reason to believe that something isn't going to work the way it was intended too, it doesn't go out the door. If anything, some hardware might go on the specials page depending on what it is. Because of this attention to detail, I am only aware of 3 Loki Research motors that have failed in the past 2 years. A G-80 in which the flyer had a defectively long drill on the DAT tool he used with an XS delay, he suffered a forward blow-by, an M-3000 that did not have the aft retaining ring properly seated in the groove and suffered a very low pressure spit nozzle as a result, and an I-430 Blue which appeared to have a cut o-ring or debris on or around the o-ring. I'd say that's a very good track record over the past 2 years. Much of this success is due to the switch to convolute liners and better quality casting tubes. The previous brown spiral would liners and mating casting tubes were less than satisfactory, however I didn't completely realize it at the time.

Although I'm sure there are more reasons, I think these are the main ones for why people who fly Loki Research 38mm motors love them so much.

Gary Dukeman's rocket on an I-405.
[video=youtube;NNIORpxSJLQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNIORpxSJLQ&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Here's Bill Koropsak's rocket on an I-405
[video=youtube;cdYE8of5270]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdYE8of5270[/video]

And as for the close recovery, that's up to how well you angle the rod. ;-)
[video=youtube;VY6xKmrAQkY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY6xKmrAQkY[/video]

Back when I e-mailed Giant Leap, I was thinking of picking up a tail cone retainer for 76 mm sized motor hardware.
Their description didn't mention that it worked or not.
The only problem I fins with Aero pack is that you need to enlarge the opening on the 54 mm tailcones.
At least with AMW / Kosdon hardware. I only have 3 about 54 mm cases. Most of my 54's are AMW or Kosdon.
The casing hangs out about 1/8" to 3/16".

JD

Loki Research said:

This is true, although with a caveat. Any 38mm Loki Research hardware with a DOM date of 7/14 or later should fit all SlimLine motor retainers. The external thrust ring has been moved back .050" to accommodate these retainers. With regard to the Aeropack motor retainers, to my knowledge, I thought all diameters of Loki Research hardware has always fit these retainers. Someone please tell me if theirs doesn't fit and about how old each vendors parts are.

Click to expand...

I have a 3" rocket with a 54mm mount and an Aeropack tailcone retainer on it.....
I just checked the fit of the Loki 54mm hardware and it fit perfectly....
No issues or adjustments necessary..........

Teddy

I have a 3" rocket with a 54mm mount and an Aeropack tailcone retainer on it.....
I just checked the fit of the Loki 54mm hardware and it fit perfectly....
No issues or adjustments necessary..........

Click to expand...

Ted,

That is true for the newer >2012 dark blue hard anodized 54/1200 and 2000 for. I do not know for certain on the 54/2800 & 4000, but I would lean towards yes, they should fit. All old style turned hardware with the integral thrust rings should also fit without any issues.

As stated in post #259, the 54/1200 and 2000 >2012 dark blue hard anodized cases will work with Giant Leap retainers.

JD, Thanks for the info on the Aeropack 54mm tailcones. Is this using the new current hardware with the thin profile thrust ring or the larger AMW/Gorilla style?

Hi Scott,

How is the certification for the new extended forward bulkheads coming? I think you mentioned before that they were still considered experimental and I have my sights on using the 54mm 2800 K350 Moon burner with that bulkhead for the extra smoke capacity, next LDRS34 for my L2.

I'm a big fan of The 405 which is what I call it but I may have found a new love, now I have only flown one so far but the J-1000 is truly the J of J's. From now on and as long as the design can manage it, every 38mm rocket will be built to accommodate this motor from hence forth. It's a wicked bad motor! :headbang:

TA

Loki Research said:

4) Value.... For a pair of G-80's it's $33, ($16.50 each). An H motor retails at $25 and the I motors at $40. The Spitfire equivalents are a few dollars more. Yes, the hardware is more expensive than the competition, but if you fly several of these motors per launch, you will quickly recoup the cost of the hardware as you save money on both the reloads and the shipping.

Click to expand...

Well I don't know about that your hardware is cheaper than AT stuff by a fair amount, even with the rising cost of your raw materials of late, CTI is hard to beat on hardware cost but you get what you pay for. The quality of your equipment is second to none.

Loki Research said:

5) Reliability..... I can honestly say, I think Loki Research motors overall, any of them, are more reliable than my main competitions motors. Why???
I am Loki Research. There is no one else that works here but me to either get it right, or screw it up. There is no one else to pass the buck to. I am responsible for everything, me, personally. Because it is my company and my personal reputation that is on the line, I take everything that I do very seriously, and when it comes to making the propellant, I am in complete control of the entire process. If I have any reason to believe that something isn't going to work the way it was intended too, it doesn't go out the door. If anything, some hardware might go on the specials page depending on what it is. Because of this attention to detail, I am only aware of 3 Loki Research motors that have failed in the past 2 years. A G-80 in which the flyer had a defectively long drill on the DAT tool he used with an XS delay, he suffered a forward blow-by, an M-3000 that did not have the aft retaining ring properly seated in the groove and suffered a very low pressure spit nozzle as a result, and an I-430 Blue which appeared to have a cut o-ring or debris on or around the o-ring. I'd say that's a very good track record over the past 2 years. Much of this success is due to the switch to convolute liners and better quality casting tubes. The previous brown spiral would liners and mating casting tubes were less than satisfactory, however I didn't completely realize it at the time.

Click to expand...

I would like to add simplicity to this, in the beginning when I was on the hunt for motors I mistakenly figured that snap rings would be a pain or difficult to use.

At this last launch I assembled a motor on my lap, watching rockets fly and carrying on a conversation with Alex, the instructions sitting neatly folded in the bag unused, a quick glance at the nozzle number and delay time is all you need. I still have to read and re-read the instructions for AT stuff. (well not much any more ) You would be hard pressed to jack up assembling a Loki, which may be a small contributing factor to the reliability. After one season of flying Loki I sold all my AT and CTI stuff and fly Loki only, I haven't regretted it since.


TA

PS. AT and CTI are fine companies and make a great product, AT especially has served this hobby well for many years. They have my respect I don't want anyone to think otherwise.

How is the certification for the new extended forward bulkheads coming? I think you mentioned before that they were still considered experimental and I have my sights on using the 54mm 2800 K350 Moon burner with that bulkhead for the extra smoke capacity, next LDRS34 for my L2.

Click to expand...

When I designed the new extended 54mm bulkhead, I had initially made it for use with the 54/4000 hardware. In doing so, I shortened its internal length from .70" to .56". Only after the fact did I consider using it on new reloads for the 54/2800 case, like the L~950 Red. I did not consider using it for the current reloads because they use a full diameter graphite nozzle, and because of this, my concern would be that the longer, larger diameter smoke grain my get the casing too hot. I would have to discuss this with TMT first to see what their thoughts are. As far as the internal length difference, an extra nozzle washer with the right ID could be place above the bulkhead to take up .100" of the extra space. There should still be enough engagement between the liner and the bulkheads shoulder o-ring for it to seal and protect the head end of the case properly. If it were a research launch you could fly it that way, however, 1) you'd need to order the reload from me and add on a 76mm smoke grain so they could ship together. The larger smoke grain has more than 30 grams of propellant so it has to ship haz-mat. 2) It would not address whether or not the case temperature would get hot enough to damage the case, and I doubt you would want yours to be the guinea pig.

I think I remember speaking with you about this new bulkhead. The motor I was referencing it would be used on though was the L~950 Red with its single use nozzle.

The 54/1200 and 54/2000 Loki Red, the 76/8000 Loki Blue, and the 76/6000 Cocktail (red/blue) were tested this past weekend by TMT. It sounds like they will all be certified but I as waiting to see the results and data still. The other 6 reloads will hopefully be tested in the next 2-3 weeks. It's a much longer process than I though, so I'm sorry for getting anyone's hopes up to soon.
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You would be hard pressed to jack up assembling a Loki, which may be a small contributing factor to the reliability. After one season of flying Loki I sold all my AT and CTI stuff and fly Loki only, I haven't regretted it since.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the glowing endorsement Todd. My hat is off to you sir.

This is onboard video of one of my flights at this past weekends High Frontier 11 put on by Tulsa Rocketry in Pahuska Oklahoma. This was the maiden flight of my rocket called "Escape Velocity" by Giant Leap Rocketry. This is an awesome kit and it's totally complete! Nothing else to buy. The motor was one of my favorites from Loki Research. At the end of the video you can see me listening to the onboard altimeter, an RRC2 mini from MissleWorks, telling me the max altitude. This rocket also had a GPS tracker from Cris Erving at Eggfinder Electronics mounted in the nose cone. Onboard keychain camera with a shroud from Landru. Enjoy!
[video=youtube_share;dgJCwt71Y64]https://youtu.be/dgJCwt71Y64[/video]

First things first here. Bill, you're spicy, smoke Venice summer sausage is freakin OUTSTANDING!!!!! I can't keep my hands off it. Wish I would have asked if I could have traded that bottle of wine I turned down for another sausage log! Thanks for flying Loki Research and thanks for posting the video, but I have to say I enjoyed being able to see all those flights in person for a change. I just wish I had a photo of it, or the other J-712 in the Stars & Stripes Fat Boy/ KLOUDBuster rocket!

This just in..... Compliments of Jeff Chaplin, some excellent pad video of Mark Cole's BA5 of a Loki M-1882 Loki White, featuring an 84" Fruity Chute main canopy from Gene Engelgau. This is the first time I've seen one of Gene's chutes in action, not once but twice. I got a close up inspection of his product (chute & nomex burrito blanket) both times as I folded and wrapped them back up during recovery of the rocket. I have to plug him here because they worked very well, were made very well, the chute even has it's own serial # and the nomex blanket was even doubled up on all but the outside edges.

Enjoy! Thank you Mark, and thank you Jeff!

[video=youtube_share;6_sKQjlwIvE]https://youtu.be/6_sKQjlwIvE?t=13s[/video]

Thanks Scott for the shout out!

-Gene Engelgau
Fruity Chutes Inc - https://fruitychutes.com

I forgot to mention, I am a huge fan of Scot's motor hardware. While we do make parachutes, I also like to make my own motors as well and Scot's hardware is excellent!

-Gene

I use my 48" when drag racing my minivan.

Loki motor for going up + Fruity Chute for coming down = great flight.

David

Loki Research said:

First things first here. Bill, you're spicy, smoke Venice summer sausage is freakin OUTSTANDING!!!!! I can't keep my hands off it. Wish I would have asked if I could have traded that bottle of wine I turned down for another sausage log! Thanks for flying Loki Research and thanks for posting the video, but I have to say I enjoyed being able to see all those flights in person for a change. I just wish I had a photo of it, or the other J-712 in the Stars & Stripes Fat Boy/ KLOUDBuster rocket!

This just in..... Compliments of Jeff Chaplin, some excellent pad video of Mark Cole's BA5 of a Loki M-1882 Loki White, featuring an 84" Fruity Chute main canopy from Gene Engelgau. This is the first time I've seen one of Gene's chutes in action, not once but twice. I got a close up inspection of his product (chute & nomex burrito blanket) both times as I folded and wrapped them back up during recovery of the rocket. I have to plug him here because they worked very well, were made very well, the chute even has it's own serial # and the nomex blanket was even doubled up on all but the outside edges.

Enjoy! Thank you Mark, and thank you Jeff!

[video=youtube_share;6_sKQjlwIvE]https://youtu.be/6_sKQjlwIvE?t=13s[/video]

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Thanks for the compliments on the Venison summer sausage Scott. Now I know what to send you for a Xmas present!

Received a box from Loki today...a bunch of LE liners and casting tubes from 38mm-98mm and they look great! We will be using them soon. Rumor has it there might be a new Loki sticker nestled in the box somewhere...

Scott is not only a manufacturer of great motors, but for those not aware Scott also offers many components for TRA Research use for use in Loki as well as other motors.

Thank You Scott!

This was with AMW / Kosdon Hardware.


JD

Loki Research said:

JD, Thanks for the info on the Aeropack 54mm tailcones. Is this using the new current hardware with the thin profile thrust ring or the larger AMW/Gorilla style?

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I'm glad you posted this!

I don't throw away the boxes right away but, forget to look for any bonus materials.



When box arrived, I expected to find a leg lamp


with all the stickers on it




JD

Kaycee said:

Received a box from Loki today...a bunch of LE liners and casting tubes from 38mm-98mm and they look great! We will be using them soon. Rumor has it there might be a new Loki sticker nestled in the box somewhere...

Scott is not only a manufacturer of great motors, but for those not aware Scott also offers many components for TRA Research use for use in Loki as well as other motors.

Thank You Scott!

Click to expand...

Any news on the violets? I need to order some more motors soon and I'm itching for some purple.

And picturetime!

Loki I316 again, though the light was harsher so it's less spectacular. It was LOUD as HECK though.




Loki H144 White. A lot of kick for a small motor in a big rocket; it flew to only 525 feet, but it leaped off the pad.

Carlo,

Excellent photos!!! Very nice. 525 feet! That's an excellent demonstration of how well Loki Research 38mm regressive motors can safely launch a heavy rocket up to a low altitude for a great looking/sounding flight. They also come in VERY handy on those bad weather days when the cloud ceiling is very low, or when you don't feel like walking far. LOL

I'm still a ways out on the 38 "Cocktail" reloads. Between the bad weather and 6-7 inches of rain we've got here in the last week, casting a batch of white, shipping/billing orders and a slew of other things, I haven't had time to do any testing in weeks. I'm still hoping to get to it in the next few weeks. Keep in mind it takes about a week to get them shipped and delivered, and then up to another month, or more, to get them tested, then a few more weeks to get them officially certified. None of this is a quick process by any means.
I ask that in the mean time, you keep burning those Spitfire and Loki White reloads to help keep my cash flow going. That's the only thing that keeps the wheels turning. ;-)

If you haven't heard the new certification announcement, check it out today's FB post! https://www.facebook.com/LokiResearch

Scott, way to go on the news! I know you have been working hard on getting new stuff out on the market, well done!

Here are the thrust curves for the newly certified Loki Research motors. The "Propellant" page has been updated and sectioned a bit to separate the different reload sizes. You will also find some limited offers on the Specials page. I am trying to add photo links to the reload names, but I'm having a bit of trouble with the server links.

Carlo, send me all the Loki Research launch photos you have and I'll include them where I can. ;-)

Check out the M-1650. It's an upscale 38mm "Life Saver" grain motor. Well, partly.

Is there a place where I can pick up some of those nice new stickers? I don't see them on the website and I think one would look really nice on my range box. By the way, you can put me down for a couple of cocktail reloads when they come out for the 38/480 case!

Just putting these out here...

I look forward to flying the Loki J300 for my level2 cert flight. 4 seconds of Loki goodness.

Yes!


op:op:op:op:op:


TA