Loki Research 2014

There are new Independence Day Specials running now at Loki Research until July 6th.

Hurry and get em while they last!!!

This is one very good reason not to use a full diameter graphite nozzle with big throats on really long motors. They get reeeealy hot. But, by using a good thermal liner on the propellant grains and by properly insulating the case from this red hot piece of graphite, I kept the case temp below 25 C. Not doing so will only damage the hardware.

Well everything went well with the test of the 54/4000 Loki Red motor. I haven't had a lot of time since the test at 8:15 Thursday to go over everything, what with the 4th and all. I don't want to post any numbers until I've had a chance to go back and check everything, and recheck the load cell calibration. But, with 2,575g of propellant, lets just say if it's at 2 times that in Ns, it's an awesome Van Halen album.

Here's a little slow motion teaser video below. It shows the extreme heat of the nozzle's graphite throat as the motor shuts down. The photo in the post above was taken less than a minute after the motor shut down. This was the most severe test of the new single use nozzles thus far and I am extremely happy with the results of the design. Looking at the nozzle after a static test, one might think it just barely survived. In flight however, the nozzles are kept much cooler from all the air rushing past. This was proven after comparing the flight test nozzles of the white and blue loads as compared to those from their static tests.

The damage you see here didn't happen until well after motor shut down as the extreme heat of the graphite is absorbed into the phenolic. Imagine what this would do to the aluminum motor case. I can greatly appreciate the benefits of a single use, thermally insulating nozzle from a motor design stand point and can easily see why Aerotech and CTI choose to use glass phenolic nozzles, especially since most of their hardware uses much thinner walled aluminum. Yes, they do cost more, but you can get almost all you want out of a motors design without needing to worry about thermal issues with the motor case, at the nozzle end anyway. But as with everything, it's a trade off. Many of the Loki reloads have a lower retail price point than that of AT & CTI, but still manage to get comparable performance results. There comes a point however, where reusable graphite nozzles just don't cut it without some serious motor design limitations, and these long 54mm motors are past that point. I didn't want to be restricted by those limitations and after 3 successful static tests with 3 different propellants and two successful flights with well above 4,000Ns, I am confident I have found the right balance of function and performance with this hardware. Knock on wood.



[video=youtube;Un0H5wNGlJg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un0H5wNGlJg&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Oh my.

That slo-mo video is way too cool. Like some nightmarish science fiction film.

I believe after seeing this, the correct word to utter is......"Dang."

s6

Coolest static test video I've seen so far. Very awesome.

Wow. I think I felt that heat from here!

Alex

Here's a couple video still shots.



For the EX guys out there, I'd like to add that not all graphite is the same. Grades with a higher thermal conductivity will transfer their heat to a motor case much quicker before they have a chance to cool down. If you don't know what your nozzles are made from "exactly", you won't know how insulating they are in protecting your hardware from excessive heat.

Nice smooth run, I don't see any reason you won't be right around 2 Ns/g, but I won't jinx anything. If you're anywhere near it, that's gonna be a big deal!

(Congrats in advance, that's a killer accomplishment!)

That was wicked cool! :headbang:


TA

I don't see any reason you won't be right around 2 Ns/g, but I won't jinx anything.

Click to expand...

I don't want to jinx it either! That's why I'm not even saying an alphabet letter.
I will show a thrust curve though.



I only need to open up the bottom grain just a wee bit and lower that spike a little. It's a tad high for my liking, Pc wise. I want to keep from putting nicks in the retaining ring grooves from the edge of the ears flexing. It didn't happen here, but it was ~80F in a stand, not 105F getting launched in a MD rocket. I'm opening up the throats on the white and blue loads a tad too for the same reason. I don't want to damage the hardware in the slightest way from normal use. I'm also choking up the top 3 cores on the blue to further lower the Pc about 80more psi. I won't have an L-3000 there any more, but it'll add another ~250~280Ns and a few tenth of a second longer burn.

Thanks for the positive remarks everyone.

Well come on now you can't post a graph and expect us not to scrape data from it



Looks like you're well past the target!

I think I just broke my keyboard.

daveyfire said:

Well come on now you can't post a graph and expect us not to scrape data from it

View attachment 176875

Looks like you're well past the target!

Click to expand...

X2. Looks like this May be major news!


Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum

Well come on now you can't post a graph and expect us not to scrape data from it.

Click to expand...

Only the brightest ones David.

Like I said before, I still need to recheck the calibration of the load cell. Even then, Im not going to claim anything special that didnt come from a "certified" test stand. At least not something special like what we're all thinking about but nobody better say too soon.

I'd like to direct those following this thread to a new thread I have just posted in the Propulsion section on the easy & safe use of Knipex snap ring pliers.
New and old users alike, please take a look.

Thank you

Spectacular, Scott. I'm surprised no one mentioned the static discharges early on in the burn. How is your test stand grounded? Congrats on the test results too ;-) . I have the perfect rocket waiting for this motor.

I had the chance today to test the 38/1200 Blue & Violet with short delay times (5 sec) for delay time verifications. I'll finally be sending these in soon for certification along with many others. I'm trying to send in as much at once as I can to save some on shipping. Every penny counts!
I've modified the Blue slightly to obtain a few more Ns. Should be a very full J motor. Maybe a tad more. We'll see. Both have nearly the exact same burn time at 1.21 seconds. Here's a few shots.

Video still frame at ignition.


Camera shots

[video=youtube;MtdDuu4mj-c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtdDuu4mj-c[/video]

I received my 54/4000 case a couple days ago. Very impressive stuff.

I'll have something special for it at Airfest.

While not as big as big as some of the new stuff, I thoroughly enjoyed flying my Wildman Jr on a Loki I405W yesterday to 3813' (5.6lb pad wt):


As has been discussed already here, the nearly 800 N punch off the pad this motor gives is spectacular. Nice dense white smoke too ;-) This one of my favorite Loki motors.

+1 on the I405. Love em.

I really can't wait to fly one of mine! Does anyone have a picture of an I210?

I posted one a while ago... post #156. Not as impressive as the I405 or I316, but it does have nice mach diamonds.

I just bought an I210 and an H144 from Ken Allen at performance hobbies... Can't wait to use them...

There has been a lot of discussion in this thread recently around some exciting new and BIG motors that Scott is working on...and rightfully so. But I flew my first Loki motor today from the opposite end of the spectrum.

The G80 put my BB Vb up to around 1,200 ft in impressive fashion. I had planned to fly the same rocket on a red H90, but the ceiling was too low today. I apologize, but I was too busy staring with a big grin on my face to snap a picture.

This message is really intended for those who do not own any Loki hardware and are maybe a little intimidated by the snap ring concept...or possibly you just think it is not convenient enough. I was right there. Loki motors are no more complex to assemble than another popular brand, and they are actually easier to clean. Most important, however, is that they absolutely KICK!

I am sold already after one flight. These are great motors. If you don't own any, I highly recommend that you contact your local vendor and place your order. You will not regret it!

Cheers,
Michael

Boy,,
Did I wait too long to jump on this bandwagon.... lol
I'm really excited to check out these loads.....
Next launch.....

Teddy

I've got to echo isqy. Just loaded up my first G80 today. Not all that complex. I liked building it. Hopefully I'll get some pics of it flying in my vulcanite this weekend. I'm really really liking the new motors coming, and really like the amount of communication about them as they develop. I'm certainly going to be picking up more cases. Non hazmat H and Is sure don't hurt.

I just noticed new information up and running on the Loki web site regarding the 29mm snap ring cases. While I would buy a full set in a heartbeat. (two full sets even) I would probably only be 100% on board if they had reloads to go with them. I don't fly my 29mm stuff that much any more and some new 29mm cases and loads would sure help. I just don't know how many 29mm EX loads I would pour, IDK I might get a kick out of it.

As exciting as the prospect that 29mm Loki case and loads would be, I'm torn between Scott spending his very limited and valuable time on more loads and sizes for the already existing line of 38 though 98 cases. (and money) I'm stuck here on this one I guess I would like to see a 29mm line sooner than later but... :confused2:

If I could pick an order of things I would like to see:

1. New loads certified for existing cases. (A real nasty black slow burning Smoky)
2. 29mm cases and loads.
3. A single grain 54mm & loads I impulse range.

Best way to get what we want is to continually support Loki, next time you need some motors, give Loki a try you will not be disappointed. For all you new people to HPR and the ones that are thinking about your level one or two cert. Don't be scared off by the snap ring, they are easy to use and very easy to clean and assemble.

And I cant preach this enough the, no HAZMAT for NINE of his 38mm loads G through I impulse! You cant beat that with a stick.:headbang: I know I keep saying this but people still ask me how this is possible, and they think i'm telling fibs!


TA

I agree 100%. I would jump all over a set of 29mms hardware IF there were reloads to go with them. Im like you in that I have a bunch of mid power rockets that have been sitting idle for a while. I sure would like to put them up in the air again.

I would love some 29mm Loki Loads.... Like a 10 grain 29mm motor...