Loki Research 2014

CarVac said:

Wow, very cool.

Also, I'm really looking forward to those purple motors.

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Agreed. Everything posted there just made my list for next year.

We had a successful cert flight at METRA today(Leo M. for those who know him), using a Loki J525. Was a great flight, and a cool motor!

Had a great day of Loki flights, only could squeeze in 3 flights due to time constraints but most went well. All of the Motors preformed flawlessly, two rockets took a small bit of damage mostly cosmetic. The J Rider on the other hand suffered a catastrophic recovery problem that I will detail in the build thread of the rocket.

As for the J-1000 it functioned flawlessly and from the data dump from the Eggtimer it hit 5711 feet. Not bad for a six pound rocket, i'm still new to the data dump of the Eggtimer so I will get a speed and and a event graph tonight it looks like its 357ft per sec which is around 240mph.

Unfortunately it had a high speed ejection and it came apart at the top. I found all of it but the chute and one fin, its pretty beat up and probably a loss but all in all not as bad as you would think for a fall from 5700 feet. As bad as the shred was I certain it would have broke 6k had it not premature separation.

It was an awesome flight almost everyone came to the flight line when it was announced, it made big ruckus and got up and went in a hurry. Lots of ooos and ahhs and aaaa my ears! I love this motor and 1200 case! :headbang: Alex got a video he said he would post.



TA

thobin said:

Had a great day of Loki flights, only could squeeze in 3 flights due to time constraints but most went well. All of the Motors preformed flawlessly, two rockets took a small bit of damage mostly cosmetic. The J Rider on the other hand suffered a catastrophic recovery problem that I will detail in the build thread of the rocket.

As for the J-1000 it functioned flawlessly and from the data dump from the Eggtimer it hit 5711 feet. Not bad for a six pound rocket, i'm still new to the data dump of the Eggtimer so I will get a speed and and a event graph tonight it looks like its 357ft per sec which is around 240mph.

Unfortunately it had a high speed ejection and it came apart at the top. I found all of it but the chute and one fin, its pretty beat up and probably a loss but all in all not as bad as you would think for a fall from 5700 feet. As bad as the shred was I certain it would have broke 6k had it not premature separation.

It was an awesome flight almost everyone came to the flight line when it was announced, it made big ruckus and got up and went in a hurry. Lots of ooos and ahhs and aaaa my ears! I love this motor and 1200 case! :headbang: Alex got a video he said he would post.



TA

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That J1000 is a Bad. Ass. Motor. I was really pretty surprised at how much noise came out of that little case. It picked up and threw that 4in rocket like a toy. So fast it outran my camera. Sorry about that!

[video=youtube;Xwnk4fQk6Lo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwnk4fQk6Lo[/video]

Get rid of those other 1200 loads soon, TA!

Alex

I have been pouring over the altimeter data and it hit 11.2 Gs and as far as I can tell for 1 tenth of a second it broke mach one and that is a 60 inch 5.8lb rocket. I know the error in the deployment was user error but I believe now that it was two fold. But more on that in the build thread. You got to love it when the flame is longer than the rocket.

Thanks for the video.


TA

I need to get a rocket that fits that case asap.

CarVac said:

I need to get a rocket that fits that case asap.

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I'm doing a 2.6" bluetube soon with an extra set of 3" darkstar fins just so I have something to eat 38mm loki loads next year. Should fly short on a G80, and with payload DD on the J1000.

Here are some photos of some of the Loki Research motors I flew this past summer.


My clone/rebuild of a LOC-IV on a Loki I110 Moonburner (photo credit to Gary Goncher)


My Binder Design Certifire (flown here as a single stage with Head End Deployment) on a Loki I110 Moonburner (photo credit to Gary Goncher). What can I say, I like this motor!


My Binder Design Certifire again, this time on a Loki I405 White (photo credit to Gary Goncher).

If you've not flown a Loki Motor, why the heck not?

Pics of my Formula 75 dubbed Land Steak flying on a Loki 38-480 I210 Red. Beautiful flight to 2688 I think.






Here is the flight data. Considering it weighed almost 6.5 pounds on the pad, it was a pretty nice flight. And yes, the 118 in the altimeter bay for the temperature is correct. Welcome to August in SC.




Assembly was fun. SUPER easy to build. Also, a little bit hard to disassemble (I bet the Hilton was wondering about the black stuff in the bathtub from soaking the motor to get the &*($%^&*((*&^%W liner out... )

blackbrandt said:

Pics of my Formula 75 dubbed Land Steak flying on a Loki 38-480 I210 Red. Beautiful flight to 2688 I think.

View attachment 185087

View attachment 185088


Here is the flight data. Considering it weighed almost 6.5 pounds on the pad, it was a pretty nice flight. And yes, the 118 in the altimeter bay for the temperature is correct. Welcome to August in SC.
View attachment 185089



Assembly was fun. SUPER easy to build. Also, a little bit hard to disassemble (I bet the Hilton was wondering about the black stuff in the bathtub from soaking the motor to get the &*($%^&*((*&^%W liner out... )

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You couldn't remove it immediately? They come out easily if you take it apart as soon as they cool.

For me the hardest part of assembly is getting the nozzle o-ring on with greasy fingers. Scott, any tips?

I couldn't find my snap ring pliers.

Thanks again for sharing the launch photos guys. Keep them coming!

If you have trouble getting parts out of the motor case, the easiest thing I have found to do is to heat the parts back up. Sometimes the dash board works with the defrost on high heat and let it sit there a while. Things tend to expand slightly and loosen things up a bit.

Also, push the liner out from the nozzle end. If you are trying to push the liner out with the forward bulkhead, there is nothing between the liner and forward o-ring so the liner will compress the o-ring making it rather difficult to move anywhere. Pushing from the nozzle end, you have the shoulder on the nozzle and the o-ring is usually melted a bit so it isn't compressed like it is before firing. It's much easier from this end. Give that a try next time.

For me the hardest part of assembly is getting the nozzle o-ring on with greasy fingers. Scott, any tips?

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Ask and you shall receive Carlo! Some things are easier to show than tell.

[video=youtube;e-Yb8WeumTI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Yb8WeumTI&feature=youtu.be[/video]

More pics for you:

My L2 cert flight - K-350 White Moonburner - 11,761' in a kit-bashed 3" DarkStar. Loved every bit of it.



s6

Loki Research said:

Thanks again for sharing the launch photos guys. Keep them coming!

If you have trouble getting parts out of the motor case, the easiest thing I have found to do is to heat the parts back up. Sometimes the dash board works with the defrost on high heat and let it sit there a while. Things tend to expand slightly and loosen things up a bit.

Also, push the liner out from the nozzle end. If you are trying to push the liner out with the forward bulkhead, there is nothing between the liner and forward o-ring so the liner will compress the o-ring making it rather difficult to move anywhere. Pushing from the nozzle end, you have the shoulder on the nozzle and the o-ring is usually melted a bit so it isn't compressed like it is before firing. It's much easier from this end. Give that a try next time.



Ask and you shall receive Carlo! Some things are easier to show than tell.

[video=youtube;e-Yb8WeumTI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Yb8WeumTI&feature=youtu.be[/video]

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Hmm... They stretch more than I thought. I just need to pull harder, I guess. Maybe I should take a spare one and see how much tension it takes to snap it.

So will the 1200 k-700 use a single use noozel? If I could choose I would just soon have to buy a different size nozzle the have the extra expense of a single use. Even if it didn't raise the cost much or at all.


TA

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Rocketry Forum mobile app

So will the 1200 k-700 use a single use noozel?

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Todd, I didn't know you were French. I never noticed the accent before. Go figure..... LOL

It's more a issue of heat than throat size. Believe me, if I can get away with a graphite nozzle, I'd much rather take that option. However, it also costs about 100Ns of performance from the loss of propellant length and nozzle expansion. Is that worth an extra ~$15 for the horse power? I' still have to test it in the same configuration with a graphite nozzle to measure the casing temperature just to be sure, but I got what I was after in the test.....the start up and level off pressure and they were both spot on the money.

I am in the process of building a Wildman DarkStar 3" limited edition and I have my mind set on using the 54/2800 K350 Moon burner. I would also like to use the GLR tailcone, however the Loki thrust ring is tight on the outside diameter and a bit too thick for this retainer. You can see from the pics below the motor will squeeze in as well as get the snap ring into the retainer but it is in on a slight angle. Is there a Loki thrust ring option with a slightly smaller outside diameter and thickness which will fit with these retainers?

View attachment 185150

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Loki Research said:

Todd, I didn't know you were French. I never noticed the accent before. Go figure..... LOL

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Its a Simpsons thing, grounds keeper Willy
[video=youtube;v_IF47rpLLY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_IF47rpLLY[/video]

Loki Research said:

It's more a issue of heat than throat size. Believe me, if I can get away with a graphite nozzle, I'd much rather take that option. However, it also costs about 100Ns of performance from the loss of propellant length and nozzle expansion. Is that worth an extra ~$15 for the horse power? I' still have to test it in the same configuration with a graphite nozzle to measure the casing temperature just to be sure, but I got what I was after in the test.....the start up and level off pressure and they were both spot on the money.

Click to expand...

So what has to happen is the case cant get to hot for the graphite nozzle, humm IC How long is the burn? I guess the catch would be if its the same cost or more than a comparable 54mm K


Thanks for the tip on the grease on the liner it popped right out just a small push with the finger. The only liners I have ever had any trouble with were the J motors and if you get them while they are warm the come right out no problem at all.

Any brand will give you fits if you don't get it out right away I have had to soak a few AT liners before. A tip, you can use a small 6 inch long chunk of 1" PVC pipe it fits perfectly inside the Loki cases and I use that to get the liner started. Best way though is just to get it out while it is still warm.


TA

Is there a Loki thrust ring option with a slightly smaller outside diameter and thickness which will fit with these retainers?

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I had this all wrote out last night and I accidentally x-ed out the window tab and I ran out of time before I had to head home for the night. Errrrrr! Her I go again!

The thrust rings that currently come on Loki Research 54mm motors are much smaller in thickness and diameter than traditional 54mm external thrust rings and they are as small as I can go. The issue here seems to be the distance from the end of the case to the forward end of the thrust ring. The 54/1200 & 2000 cases will work with the GL retainers. However the distance from the end of the case to the front of the thrust ring on the 54/2800 and 4000 cases are longer. The reason is that these cases were made to keep in line with the Kosdon/AMW style case dimensions.

The end margin on the retaining rings (distance from the end of the case to the internal retaining ring) is .20" on the 54/1200 (1050) and the 54/2000 (1750). The end margin on the 54/2800 (2550) and the 54/4000 (3000) is .25". To keep the same margin between the internal and external grooves meant that the cases with the .25" end margin had to have their external rings moved forward .050".

To solve this problem, I see one of three solutions. #1 would be to have the end of the case turned down slightly to shorten the distance between the end of the case and the thrust ring. From the looks of the photos, there wouldn't be very much material that needs to be removed. It would not affect anything other than the cosmetics of the case. However the thru hole on my lathe is too small for a 54mm case so I'd have to use a steady rest which would leave a mark on the outside of one end of the case. Another local shop might be able to do this though without a steady rest.

The #2 option would be to contact Giant Leap to see if there is a c-clip available that has a thinner cross section. I can't say for sure, but I would think they are using the thinnest one that's available as there isn't much force required to hold the motor in place.

#3, If the retainer isn't/wasn't installed, it could be machined to increase the distance between the c-clip groove and the forward stop where the thrust ring seats. This would be the easiest by far, and again it wouldn't require the removal of much material at all. This is something I could do quite easily for someone.

If there is anything I can do to help you solve this problem, please send me an email and we'll try to figure out the best solution for you.

So what has to happen is the case cant get to hot for the graphite nozzle, humm IC How long is the burn? I guess the catch would be if its the same cost or more than a comparable 54mm K

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The case can't exceed 220 C. The burn should be about 2 seconds. Cost wise, you'd be roughly looking at around $100 I think.

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the reply, I will investigate the options further and if option 3 works then I agree it seems to be the best option. It is not installed as I always dry fit everything first to mitigate issues like this then build. In a perfect world I would have CAD and know how to use it, but that's not going to happen so it's old school trial and error.

I want to say thanks to Scott at Loki. I flew two of his I405s today and they were outstanding. I know they are just I motors but they don't act like I motors. They act like I motors with a bad case of rabies contracted by drinking an infected can of Red Bull. They frighten most J motors.

Squawsach said:

I want to say thanks to Scott at Loki. I flew two of his I405s today and they were outstanding. I know they are just I motors but they don't act like I motors. They act like I motors with a bad case of rabies contracted by drinking an infected can of Red Bull. They frighten most J motors.

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Yeah, the Loki I405 is one of my favorites, too...


Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum

Kosdon, AMW, nor Loki hardware were intended to work with any of the Slim Line retainers.
I inquired about this a few years back
Giant Leap never supported those Motor Makers.

Aero Pack tail cones will work with a some modification.


JD

mpitfield said:

I am in the process of building a Wildman DarkStar 3" limited edition and I have my mind set on using the 54/2800 K350 Moon burner. I would also like to use the GLR tailcone, however the Loki thrust ring is tight on the outside diameter and a bit too thick for this retainer. You can see from the pics below the motor will squeeze in as well as get the snap ring into the retainer but it is in on a slight angle. Is there a Loki thrust ring option with a slightly smaller outside diameter and thickness which will fit with these retainers?

View attachment 185150

View attachment 185151

Click to expand...

Squawsach said:

I want to say thanks to Scott at Loki. I flew two of his I405s today and they were outstanding. I know they are just I motors but they don't act like I motors. They act like I motors with a bad case of rabies contracted by drinking an infected can of Red Bull. They frighten most J motors.

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I flew 3 Loki's this weekend and the I405 always get a "WOW" from the crowd.

What's different about the I405?

Squawsach said:

I want to say thanks to Scott at Loki. I flew two of his I405s today and they were outstanding. I know they are just I motors but they don't act like I motors. They act like I motors with a bad case of rabies contracted by drinking an infected can of Red Bull. They frighten most J motors.

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To answer your question Zeroignite, what he said^. They just flat kick ass!

The Loki I405 produces most of it's thrust right from the start. It's very good at getting heavy rockets off the rail in a hurry. After the swift kick in the pants, the I405 continues to push the rocket for 1.2 seconds. The I405 also sounds different than other I motors. It's obnoxious.

Squawsach said:

The I405 also sounds different than other I motors. It's obnoxious.

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As one of the folks at our recent launch said, the Aerotech and Cesaroni whites have a nice roar, but you FEEL the Loki white motors.

This thread has me even more excited to burn one of my I405's. It should give a 5.5" 6 pound rocket a pretty good ride! I have seen the H144 and was impressed, so I can't wait to see twice the power!

JDcluster said:

Kosdon, AMW, nor Loki hardware were intended to work with any of the Slim Line retainers.
I inquired about this a few years back
Giant Leap never supported those Motor Makers.

Aero Pack tail cones will work with a some modification.


JD

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Jeff,,
"Some modification"
Do you know more ??
How much ?? and where ??

Teddy