Loki Research 2014

Out of curiosity, approximately what does it cost and how long is the process? No doubt it's a hassle, just wondering.

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Although I'd like to be able to answer any question I am asked, there are some which I can not answer directly, partly because I do not know the entire answer. The testing process and cost are not easy for me to describe or value because I have not personally gone through the process myself. I have only been on the receiving end of the conversation asking questions such as yours. There are many variables and many different associated costs involved, and quite honestly, it would take more time that I available to research it and get you a complete answer. About the only thing I can share with you on the cost is, if you're starting from scratch and have to go through the entire testing process with a given propellant, I am told it will go somewhere into the 5 figure range. With the way the costs of everything have continually increased in the last 5 years, I would say that number is only getting higher.

Loki Research said:

Although I'd like to be able to answer any question I am asked, there are some which I can not answer directly, partly because I do not know the entire answer. The testing process and cost are not easy for me to describe or value because I have not personally gone through the process myself. I have only been on the receiving end of the conversation asking questions such as yours. There are many variables and many different associated costs involved, and quite honestly, it would take more time that I available to research it and get you a complete answer. About the only thing I can share with you on the cost is, if you're starting from scratch and have to go through the entire testing process with a given propellant, I am told it will go somewhere into the 5 figure range. With the way the costs of everything have continually increased in the last 5 years, I would say that number is only getting higher.

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Pretty much the answer I was given from the testing agency when I researched it awhile back. Even they could not give a firm answer because if it is a more sensitive flammable, they do more thorough testing which costs more.

The Last I heard it was above the $75,000 range. That was back around 2003.
Just plug that into inflation calculator then, factor in: Obama tax, DOT holiday pay, plus 4 Michelle Obama Vac to boot.


JD

JDcluster said:

The Last I heard it was above the $75,000 range. That was back around 2003.

JD

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The rough estimate I got around the same time was one tenth that. Still overpriced for something that should be classified as a flammable solid.

For anyone watching this thread who has been waiting on an order. You should have got an email last Monday the 17th with a status update on the items we are all waiting on. If you didn't get the email, please let me know so I can figure out what went wrong. You can see most of the update on the Loki Research home page.

On another note, the next KLOUDBusters launch is KLOUDBurst 24 on April 12th & 13th. You should try and make it if you can. My goal for this launch is to flight test either the L~3000 Loki Blue or the L~2450 Loki White in a customers minimum diameter 54mm rocket, and the other in his 3" rocket. I'll let him come forward with any details on the rockets if he wishes. Don't ask me because I don't know! . The main goal for the flights are to test the nozzles under the full stress of flight. If they stand up here, I'll be very satisfied. I don't get to fly rockets much any more but I'm really looking forward to this launch. Another customer will be flying the 76/8000 M-3000 as well, I'm not sure if it's a minimum diameter, but either way, that is one smokin reload!

If you haven't looked, check out Loki Research LLC on Facebook and click the Like or Follow button to keep up with what's going on.

Please post vids

I'm planning at least 1 launch with a Loki motor this weekend at Red Glare! a J712 in the 38/740 case in a darkstar Jr.

Quick Question, what's the best way to get the slag from the spitfire motors off of the nozzle? the majority of it chips off without too much trouble, but there are always some stubborn bits. I can usually get the throat clear, but there are bits still stuck on there. Should I even worry too much about those?

Fly it again

Looking forward to seeing those 4000 loads fly this weekend Scott, see you in Kansas.

Quick Question, what's the best way to get the slag from the spitfire motors off of the nozzle?

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There is no good/best way when it comes to titanium. Just try to get under the slag with a strait razor blade a little bit at a time. The main concern is that you have the throat clean. As long as that is done, the rest usually burns off with the next motor firing.

Manny, the white L-2450 is assembled and should go up early Saturday when the weather is its best. I'm looking forward to it too. See you in the morning. I'm leaving in about an hour.

Aside from a horrible day Friday on the drive to Wichita, my F-350 trainy went out, the weekend went great for me. Im still in Wichita headed to Springfield, Mo to HOPEFULLY pick up my fixed truck from Ace Transmissions. I can't say enough about the hospitality and helpfulness of the KLOUDBusters members. They ar a great group and Wayne is ONE HELL of a good cook!

Mike Hall flew the L-2450 Loki White Friday & the L-3000 Saturday. Not much for photos yet, but both motors worked exactly as designed and the nozzles worked even better than expected both in flight and with a 2.5" long smoke grain. I'd post a few photos but its not letting me do it from my phone. Maybe tomorrow.

Loki Research said:

Mike Hall flew the L-2450 Loki White Friday & the L-3000 Saturday. Not much for photos yet, but both motors worked exactly as designed and the nozzles worked even better than expected both in flight and with a 2.5" long smoke grain. I'd post a few photos but its not letting me do it from my phone. Maybe tomorrow.

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Was one of them in the minimum-diameter mentioned? How high did it go?

The minimum diameter motor (L-2450) worked flawlessly however the rocket came apart shortly after motor burn. Still evaluating cause but more that likely operator error!
The L-3000 flew in a 3" airframe and this time everything worked flawlessly, flew to 13,817 feet and recovered about 1.3 miles from the pad.

mjhall said:

The minimum diameter motor (L-2450) worked flawlessly however the rocket came apart shortly after motor burn. Still evaluating cause but more that likely operator error!
The L-3000 flew in a 3" airframe and this time everything worked flawlessly, flew to 13,817 feet and recovered about 1.3 miles from the pad.

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Was the 3" airframe the orange one I sold you last summer?

No... but that airframe has flown several times, successfully, since I acquired it from you.

Well good news. They are done installing a rebuilt trainy, the test drive went well and they are almost done. Then I get to drive another 1.5hrs home. Unfortunately it cost me many pretty pennies.



Compliments of Charles Mitchum

mjhall said:

The L-3000 flew in a 3" airframe and this time everything worked flawlessly, flew to 13,817 feet and recovered about 1.3 miles from the pad.

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What was the weight on that 3" bird?

mjhall said:

No... but that airframe has flown several times, successfully, since I acquired it from you.

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Glad to hear. It's funny, the big relocation sale I had last summer had me moving in to TX just as you were moving out, looks like. Was at WTR last month hanging out with Elvin Carey and your name came up in conversation.

I'll make it up to Argonia a couple of times this summer.

S

Compliments of Charles Mitchum
View attachment 169030

Fin can looks familiar. Looks like it was moving pretty good on the way up. Drag sep?

mrwalsh85 said:

What was the weight on that 3" bird?

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The bird (fully dressed) tipped the scales at 13 lbs. (on the nose) including motor hardware (less propellant).

Yea I heard you were down at WTR recently. I plan on going to their May and October launches otherwise I will see you at Argonia.

prophecy said:

Glad to hear. It's funny, the big relocation sale I had last summer had me moving in to TX just as you were moving out, looks like. Was at WTR last month hanging out with Elvin Carey and your name came up in conversation.

I'll make it up to Argonia a couple of times this summer.

S

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Probably.

Most parts collected and all electronics survived. Have not conducted postmortem yet.
Was going at a good clip when it let go!

Binder Design said:

Compliments of Charles Mitchum
View attachment 169030

Fin can looks familiar. Looks like it was moving pretty good on the way up. Drag sep?

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mjhall said:

Probably.
Was going at a good clip when it let go!

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This just might be the understatement of the year so far!

Propellant weight on the blue was about 4.54lbs so on the pad roughly 17.54lbs on the L-3000.

On the MD white......

Was going at a good clip when it let go!

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This just might be the understatement of the year so far!

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Ummm,....... yeah

Click settings to watch in 720p.
[video=youtube;nSw_s0aRPCw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSw_s0aRPCw&feature=youtu.be[/video]

I watched the video. Was the failure just before the corkscrewing? If so, I'd suspect the upper airframe gave way. Seen that quite a few times.

Binder Design said:

I watched the video. Was the failure just before the corkscrewing? If so, I'd suspect the upper airframe gave way. Seen that quite a few times.

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If after corkscrewing, then I might blame it on stability.

But for such a slender rocket, an airframe failure would certainly still be highly suspect

Mike, watching in slow motion just a while ago, it seems pretty evident to me that it folded the airfraime while in straight line flight followed by the unstable corkscrew. It did loosen the fincan up a bit but seeing the video now I'd say it's a good bet that the fincan wasnt responsible at all. I'd say we reached the speed of FWFG. I for one would like to see a return of convolute wound FG cloth. I believe it holds up much better.

Btw, if anyone would like to discuss the failure of materials more, please start a new thread and post a link to it here. I don't want to derail this theard from Loki too much. ;-) Thanks.

Loki Research said:

Mike, watching in slow motion just a while ago, it seems pretty evident to me that it folded the airfraime while in straight line flight followed by the unstable corkscrew.

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Predicted. See post #38 in this thread. And #35.

Just wanted to plug Loki for making some outstanding motors!

Both my flights at Red Glare were with Loki loads.

Here is my 4" Mad Cow AIM-54 Phoenix on an H144, Great flame for a 38/240 :gavel:

Binder Design said:

Predicted. See post #38 in this thread. And #35.

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I'll have to give that one to you.

How long are the airframes you've tried, though? If you keep them shorter, then the bending moments are minimized. In this case, the one that just shredded had an incredibly long lever arm.