Weight Loss Options & Sleeve Gastrectomy is Not One of Them!

Sorry to hear about all the struggle you have been going through!

My $0.02 is that everybody's body is a bit different, and responds differently to different things, so, when somebody says "Try this" or "Try that," maybe it worked for them but that doesn't necessarily mean it works for you.

I've known people who have had the gastric bypass surgery...I'm not sure exactly which specific surgery...and some people have managed to keep the weight off over a number of years, and others are back to where they were before. Bottom line (as I see it) is that weight loss and diet are life time work/activities and you have to structure your behavior around what is healthy and works for *you*. Note that this is really difficult when you are going through stressful times, or are around other people who eat a certain way (or you watch some of the crazy TV commercials advertising food).

You've been successful at quitting other unhealthy things...and you've been successful at losing weight before (albeit then gaining it back). What works for you & can you do that again or more of it? And are there any common patterns to when you have gained the weight back?

Steve Shannon said:

Will power is important but a support system of people going through a similar situation could make all the difference. If there’s an Overeaters Anonymous in your area they might be helpful (I apologize if overeating is not the problem)
I assume you have been checked for thyroid conditions and any other causes. In my case my weight gain is strictly lack of exercise and overeating.
In any case I wish you success.

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I have had full physicals, stress tests, complete blood workup etc. In my case, I too overeat and do not get much if any exercise. I do walk daily, and try to get daily water in-take, usually in the form of coffee and water (bottled).

The_Lone_Beagle said:

Sorry to hear about all the struggle you have been going through!

My $0.02 is that everybody's body is a bit different, and responds differently to different things, so, when somebody says "Try this" or "Try that," maybe it worked for them but that doesn't necessarily mean it works for you.

I've known people who have had the gastric bypass surgery...I'm not sure exactly which specific surgery...and some people have managed to keep the weight off over a number of years, and others are back to where they were before. Bottom line (as I see it) is that weight loss and diet are life time work/activities and you have to structure your behavior around what is healthy and works for *you*. Note that this is really difficult when you are going through stressful times, or are around other people who eat a certain way (or you watch some of the crazy TV commercials advertising food).

You've been successful at quitting other unhealthy things...and you've been successful at losing weight before (albeit then gaining it back). What works for you & can you do that again or more of it? And are there any common patterns to when you have gained the weight back?

Click to expand...

Common patterns... Chili ConQueso :blush:

Seriously though, I eat a little at breakfast and lunch, and when I get home from work, I could leave teeth marks in the counter tops of the kitchen. I pretty much snack until supper, eat a huge supper, and finish with a bowl of popcorn, all while trying not to eat after 7PM.

One last dig at the seminar from last night; even though I have a BMI of 44.6, I was one of the smallest persons in the room of about 30 desperate souls, all seeking the magic cure.

I too have friends who have had this sort of surgery (though I couldn't say which one). The common element that I have seen is that they all have post surgical dietary restrictions that they must follow for life, but those same restrictions, had they been followed even without the surgery, would have resulted in major weight loss. And so I wonder how much of the surgical option is a complicated medical placebo that allows the recipient to say "I *have* to follow the diet now because I had surgery." I know that it works for some people, but it is a serious thing and if you can find a way to lose the weight without surgery, consider that first. But if it's your last chance at living a healthy life, then consider all the pros and cons and find the best solution for you.

Peartree said:

I too have friends who have had this sort of surgery (though I couldn't say which one). The common element that I have seen is that they all have post surgical dietary restrictions that they must follow for life, but those same restrictions, had they been followed even without the surgery, would have resulted in major weight loss. And so I wonder how much of the surgical option is a complicated medical placebo that allows the recipient to say "I *have* to follow the diet now because I had surgery." I know that it works for some people, but it is a serious thing and if you can find a way to lose the weight without surgery, consider that first. But if it's your last chance at living a healthy life, then consider all the pros and cons and find the best solution for you.

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Surgery does take away hunger but you are correct John. If people ate the amounts proscribed for a post-bypass person they wouldn't need the surgery. It is not a placebo effect. That's been proven without a doubt. What is still puzzling is
some (but not all) will stretch out the pouch and get back to where they were before. That takes work and fortitude to do and not being morbidly obese, I can't fathom.

A potential candidate needs to go to a surgical group or hospital program that doesn't "push" any one method over the other and again, this is considered a last resort. Sure, if one can diet to get the weight off fine, it's the best and cheapest way.
Bottom line is not everyone can do it. Do they wait and fail an entire lifetime to lose to succumb eventually to an obesity related illness?

Don't go to a surgeon who pushes one procedure over another. A University based program or a multi-specialty surgical group are probably the best places to look. Kurt

ksaves2 said:

Bottom line is not everyone can do it. Do they wait and fail an entire lifetime to lose to succumb eventually to an obesity related illness?

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Absolutely agree. Don't get me wrong, although to me (who doesn't have this struggle) some of it seems a little odd, my friends who felt that they had no other option have lost a lot of weight, are far healthier than they were for years, and living lives that weren't possible before. It was nothing less than transformative for them. I'm just cautioning that it *is* a major life change and you need to be absolutely sure that you can't do it any other way, and that if you choose that path, that you are totally committed to a new lifestyle or it won't work.

Dragon, I am sure inspired by your story and admire your willingness to keep trying, now with success! Everyone has to find what works for them. My wife lost 57lbs with Weight Watchers about 5 years ago and has maintained it since. I came back from my most recent deployment heavier than I wanted and am down about 20lbs also using Weight Watchers; my wife now works for WW too! We've pretty much done a total lifestyle overhaul and diet changeover, and in our late 40s feel great. We are now much more active than in our 30s and enjoy that time together immensely, whether it is long walks on the weekend, hiking, running/cycling or whatever. Now the diet changes are what we prefer, not what we force ourselves to eat.

Keep at it...it's so worth it!

Peartree said:

I too have friends who have had this sort of surgery (though I couldn't say which one). The common element that I have seen is that they all have post surgical dietary restrictions that they must follow for life, but those same restrictions, had they been followed even without the surgery, would have resulted in major weight loss.

Click to expand...

^ That is something I have seen as well.

Viperfixr said:

Dragon, I am sure inspired by your story and admire your willingness to keep trying, now with success! Everyone has to find what works for them. My wife lost 57lbs with Weight Watchers about 5 years ago and has maintained it since. I came back from my most recent deployment heavier than I wanted and am down about 20lbs also using Weight Watchers; my wife now works for WW too! We've pretty much done a total lifestyle overhaul and diet changeover, and in our late 40s feel great. We are now much more active than in our 30s and enjoy that time together immensely, whether it is long walks on the weekend, hiking, running/cycling or whatever. Now the diet changes are what we prefer, not what we force ourselves to eat.

Keep at it...it's so worth it!

Click to expand...

I was going to ask if you have tried Weight Watchers...I have heard a bunch of people have success with this, and at a minimum, you will learn a lot about food, nutrition, and how to read labels and make healthier choices.

If you don't eat a lot during the day, and then pretty much eat most of your food in the evening, there might be some practical things you can try to interrupt this pattern. This reminds me of people who are able to control their smoking; they usually have better luck quitting (maybe not the first time, or the fifth time, but eventually after repeated trying).

So I found this website: https://www.iifym.com/

And they talk about hitting your macros... you can read more if you want to know more. What I got from it was to return to the myfitnesspal app on my phone and start inputting my meal plans again. The data (macros) from the IIFYM website will help to guide me to a goal weight. I can eat what I want (in moderation), as long as I "hit my macros" Basically, the science to burn more calories than I take in during a day. This has always made sense to me, but as I stated, I over est daily, and thus far exceed my daily 'allowance' etc.

I am determined, so we will see where this takes me.

Viperfixr said:

Dragon, I am sure inspired by your story and admire your willingness to keep trying, now with success! Everyone has to find what works for them. My wife lost 57lbs with Weight Watchers about 5 years ago and has maintained it since. I came back from my most recent deployment heavier than I wanted and am down about 20lbs also using Weight Watchers; my wife now works for WW too! We've pretty much done a total lifestyle overhaul and diet changeover, and in our late 40s feel great. We are now much more active than in our 30s and enjoy that time together immensely, whether it is long walks on the weekend, hiking, running/cycling or whatever. Now the diet changes are what we prefer, not what we force ourselves to eat.

Keep at it...it's so worth it!

Click to expand...

Thank you Mr. Rose, I appreciate the kind words. When I mentally decided yesterday how I wished to proceed this time, it seemed like a wave of relief washed over me. I have decided that surgery is not for me at this time. I am going to work with the fitness pal app on my phone, and just flat out reduce my caloric intake. If I should fail at this, there is a medical weight loss plan that is similar to WW that I plan to invest in. I have friends that have benefited from the medical plan... it is not covered by my insurance, and would cost me around $1600 out of pocket... here is to hoping the free fitness pal app is the golden egg.

One thing that helped me a lot.

Don't carry money. Sounds silly, yet if you can't get junk food you can't eat it. My weakness is sweets and if I have money and the opportunity crosses me, I will buy a candy bar without a second (or first) thought.

H_Rocket said:

One thing that helped me a lot.

Don't carry money. Sounds silly, yet if you can't get junk food you can't eat it. My weakness is sweets and if I have money and the opportunity crosses me, I will buy a candy bar without a second (or first) thought.

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I employed this tactic when I quit drinking, I have not carried cash in 10-years now. I'm not a big sweets kinda guy, but when I do, Haribo Gummy Bears are my weakness.

Something else to consider.. Eat carrots & drink water.

When I quit smoking, one 'habit replacement' mentioned was carrots & celery sticks. They can be cut to a similar size as cigs, so you have that "thing" in your fingers. And, they are pretty much 'just water' when consumed. A few zoos prefer you feed their animals carrots for that exact reason. They get a treat, you get the chance to feed the ferocious Bambi, yet their dietary intake remains unchanged (negligible). Cleans their teeth too! We routinely give our dogs carrots as treats.. goes right thru them!

Sorry, not trying to compare you to a dog or an animal, but it is food* for thought, if you like munching, and need to feel "full".. Skip the dip though..


*No pun intended!

I didn't read any of this thread.
All I can say is what I did to loose weight.
I love to cook, and love even more to eat.
I was up to 280 and my doctor said I was prime for a major heart failure.
Instead of stuffing myself 3 or 4 times a day, I only do it once a day.
Typically, middle afternoon between 3 and 5.
2 months later I was down to 235 and feeling much better.
My weight seams to have leveled staying between 235 and 240.
More exercise is needed, but it's just not physically possible for me.
I need to learn to eat even less.
Good luck with your goals.

This is a long post but I think I can help you.

It seems you've been struggling with this for a long time. I've been overweight for a long time too. I hit a high of 285 in December. I stumbled upon books and Youtube videos by Dr. Jason Fung. [video=youtube;1a2Fsfa8e4I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a2Fsfa8e4I&t=292s[/video]
I believe I have a clear understanding of the role of insulin, and what diabetes really is, and what to do about it. I've been experimenting with various forms of extended fasting (over 24 hours, called EF) and intermittent fasting (eating in a smaller window of the day like a late lunch and early dinner, called IF). I easily dropped 20 pounds in January. And my body fat went down 8%. Now I'm fasting Sunday night to Wednesday night nearly every week and feeling extremely well and very energetic. I actually have excess energy so I'm walking before work, and during most of my break and lunch times. The exercise is just to keep the body moving. It won't build muscle. It won't help lost much weight. You can't out-exercise a bad diet. Now you're thinking about how crazy it is to not eat but that's what everyone thinks at first. I don't even tell many people because that's always the reaction. But I am feeling better than I have in years. I donated blood a week ago and the nurse commented on my perfect blood pressure (119/79), which is down 15 points from 10 weeks prior at the last donation. She of course asked what I was doing and was stunned by the fasting. When I do eat, it's typically in the short window I mentioned, late lunch, early dinner, not too much snacking. But the lack of snacking is not from willpower. I just don't feel hungry because of the way I eat. Very low processed carbs (no bread, etc.), lots of veggies and meat and fat. Despite the high fat, my cholesterol is incredibly low. Eat high fat, the body doesn't make as much. Eat low fat, the body makes more. My cholesterol was 207 on July 31, 2017. At the blood donation on February 5, 2018, it was 158! I eat a lot in my one or two meals a day; some days it's hard to eat enough food.

So back to Dr. Jason Fung. I think this guy has it figured out. I tried what he said and it worked for me and it continues to work. Sure, fasting the first time was difficult. I didn't feel great on day 3 and by day 4 I felt pretty lousy. But I've eaten tons of food and poorly for years so not eating for a few days was bound to take a toll the first time. It was a mental and physical challenge but every week gets way easier. Not eating seems to curb the appetite and since I'm not eating I go for a walk and listen to Dr. Fung's books on Audible. There's a tough spot after not eating about 24 hours when most of the glycogen (sugar for quick fuel) in the body is depleted and the body is switching over to burning fat. This is the beginning of ketogenesis: the body burning stored fat for fuel. I have an enormous reserve of fuel so I figure I could go about 6 months without eating. The longest recorded fast on water only was over a year. Any fast over 7 days should be medically supervised. I told my doctor I was fasting and he wasn't elated. He gave me the usual "Sure, if you don't eat you'll lose weight". But now that I know why it works, it's so much easier. I saw the nutritionist and she told me so much bullshit about eating small portions, carbs, etc. She said the stomach shrinks from eating small meals; the stomach does not shrink. She said eat bread and pasta; humans do not need those processed carbs. Etc., etc. She's stuck telling me the regular crap we all hear over and over. And I now know. It's. All. Wrong.

I now believe that with EF and IF and ketogenic diet, I can lose as much weight as I want and maintain it. I can only ask that you look into this for yourself and decide. It worked for me. It will work for you and every person. People will say crazy stuff if you tell them. I just straight up told the doctor and dietitian that this is what I was doing and asked the doctor to order a blood test to look at every marker he thought was needed to monitor this. I'll go back again in a few months for another blood test but the results are apparent immediately: weight and cholesterol and blood pressure down, energy up, and I didn't even mention the elevated mood. You can watch tons of Dr. Jason Fung videos for free on Youtube. Buy his book "Obesity Code" if you can. Or get it on Audible and listen to it on walks around the block. And email me if you need help. I don't check in here every day but I am happy to listen if you want to talk. [email protected]

Fasting for days a week every week would be a bit extreme for this 54 yo... I would be so very much "hangry" every week, my wife would not stand for it.

Since I last posted I have managed to gain an additional five pounds, as recorded by my family doctor yesterday. I went in for a wellness visit to talk weight loss options... I was instead handed a pamphlet to the Huntsville Weight Loss Center. Essentially a doctor and dietician supervised "Weight Watchers" program, where I count calories and eat their "designed" meal programs. I am feeling very sarcastic to this option, as I do not believe it to be maintainable, should I stop buying their designed meals.

My wife and I are going to attend another seminar this evening hosted by another bariatric surgeon, specifically the surgeon who performed my mothers gastric by-pass, and my sisters lap band.

DRAGON64 said:

Since I last posted I have managed to gain an additional five pounds, as recorded by my family doctor yesterday. I went in for a wellness visit to talk weight loss options... I was instead handed a pamphlet to the Huntsville Weight Loss Center. Essentially a doctor and dietician supervised "Weight Watchers" program, where I count calories and eat their "designed" meal programs. I am feeling very sarcastic to this option, as I do not believe it to be maintainable, should I stop buying their designed meals.

Click to expand...

I think the value of the designed meal program isn't to be a lifelong supply of meals, but to teach you how to plan meals and portions that will work for weight loss, and eventually maintain a weight.

I had a friend who lost a ton of weight simply by buying smaller plates, and not reloading when he was finished eating.

I have no feelings of hanger despite not eating for the past 36 hours. In fact, my hunger is greatly diminished and my mood is elevated.
Here is some science on it:
https://idmprogram.com/youre-always-hungry-fasting-28/
https://idmprogram.com/fasting-and-hunger-fasting-17/
https://www.dietdoctor.com/not-get-hungry-fasting-ghrelin

I lost 5 pounds since your last post and 24 pounds total this year. Fasting works and is beneficial to the body.
Do some research and give it a try. I won't post again unless you need some help with it.

I typically stay away from these sorts of threads, but I'll toss my hat in the ring now.

Real quick history...in High School I played hockey and weighed about 170 lbs. I was strong, lifted weights twice a week, skated 6 days a week most weeks. I could eat whatever I wanted, which often included 10-12 cans of regular Coca Cola a day. My body needed as much energy as it could get.

College hit and I put on the Freshman 15 in the first 2 weeks probably. By the time I graduated I was probably 230 pounds. I then got a job and moved away from home. A year later when I married my wife I hit my high of 245lbs. I decided to do something about it, so I began walking for an hour over lunch and limiting my caloric intake to 1750 calories per day. I used MyFitnessPal to do it and managed to lure my good friend into losing weight with me for the accountability of it all. He lost a good amount too, but looking at my logs I got down to 204 in December of 2012.

I lost 41 lbs by limiting my caloric intake and increasing my activity level by walking. That's nowhere near the intensity of a fasting regimen. I wasn't consuming Kale smoothies exclusively, and I didn't join a gym. I held myself accountable and knew that I was in control of it. It doesn't happen as quickly as we'd all like, but it happens over time.

Fast forward to January 26, 2018...I was 221.6 lbs. I don't look as large as I did in 2012 because I am carrying my weight differently, but I didn't feel great. An average day for me included 1 to 3 IPA's after work because I LOVE the taste of IPA's. I love beer so much that I have logged 1139 different beers since 2012. It's an obsession, not unlike rocketry, but unlike rocketry it's destructive and awful for your health. I'm not an alcoholic, but the beer was keeping my weight too high.

Out came the MyFitnessPal again, this time limiting myself to 1500 calories. I acclimated myself to Lemon Lime seltzer. I've limited myself to 1-3 beers PER WEEK instead of per day. Since it's winter I haven't even been walking. I've lost 10.6 lbs in 18 days. When I consider that the beer that I like to consume is 240-320 calories per 16oz can I wonder why I did it to myself so regularly.

It's not easy, but it's also not hard. After a while you recognize the signs your body is giving you as positive change. I'm hungry in-between meals a lot but I'm not starving myself, and that hunger reminds me that I'm making progress. You embrace it. You feel good when you think "nah, I don't need a beer" and reach for a seltzer. Heck, it reinvigorated my love of beer and I enjoy the ones I allow myself to have even more now.

You can do it. The heavier you are, the more significant a small change becomes. If you're averaging 3000 calories a day, a 2200-2500 calorie a day diet will cause you to lose weight. If you're completely sedentary now a 30-60 minute per day increase in activity will cause you to lose weight. It won't happen immediately, but always be chasing that incremental change and KEEP YOURSELF ACCOUNTABLE.

When you think about it, it's a VERY simple equation:

Calories Consumed - Calories Used = Calorie Storage

If Calories Storage is a positive number, you gain weight.

Dragon,

Just saw this thread, as I generally don't visit the watering hole. I have a few thoughts to share as someone who has been through a lot of common experiences: I am 52 and my max weight was 425 two years ago. I had high blood pressure, high cholesterol, plantar fasciitis, metabolic syndrome, sleep apnea, depression, and severe leptin resistance.

That last item was the key for me - the diets that doctors recommended, that I fought to stay on for years, were actually making things worse. They were literally killing me by making my system think it was starving, which caused it to shut down my metabolism and store fat. I tried virtually every plan out there, too. Plans that work fine for some made me sick as a dog when I followed them exactly.

Today, I weigh 205, (aiming for 185-190,) and am off blood pressure meds, off anti-depressents, have an LDL of 59, and am training for a week long 100-mile section hike on the Appalachian Trail this fall. Mandatory rocketry content: I got off my duff and re-certified L1 and L2 in the last few months after letting them lapse for a decade because I didn't have the energy to participate in launches.

Here are my take-aways from the experience:

1. One size does not fit all. What works for one may not for another, so find a bariatric specialist that is willing to find solutions that work for YOUR situation rather than running you through a pre-defined program.

2. Nearly everyone has advice and opinions, offered with the best of intentions, and MOST of them will be wrong FOR YOU. Feel free to ignore the advice of anyone who isn't actually a) a bariatric or nutrition expert and b) familiar with the details of YOUR situation, including me. My parents tried very hard to talk me out of my plan - until they saw the results.

3. Nearly every approach to weight loss comes in three flavors: half-baked, hard-core extremist, and pragmatic. Think Goldilocks and the three bears, here, and aim for the "just right". For example, I'm seeing a lot of fasting program ads these days, that insist you have to follow their precise plan for timing, what you eat at the end of the fasting period, etc. I have no doubt these plans worked - for the person selling them - but am very skeptical their magic formula is optimal in the general case.

There's a bit of a common theme there, you may have noticed, which is why I wanted to go through that before relating what I did, which may or may not work for anyone else.

I had DS surgery. For me, lap-band would have been a waste of time. RnY shows poorer long term results, and (arguably) a higher risk of side effects. Gastric sleeve might have been sufficient, but I had one shot at this on my insurance, and went for it. I experience two minor side effects, but they are nothing compared to the general improvement in health.

I follow a mostly ketogenic diet of 125g or more of protein a day, 25g or less of simple carbs a day (whenever possible - this can be tough to manage) and don't count fat intake one way or the other. So bacon and eggs are fine, but chugging EVOO is pointless. Starches like beans, corn, potatoes, etc. and most fruits are on my never-eat-again list, and salads are just working their way back in. Some people freak out when I describe this, but the blood tests show that this is working well for me. Eating enough protein and fat allows my system to burn calories instead of store them.

Exercise? Very important to overall health, but lots of recent studies have shown it just doesn't help with weight loss. (e.g. https://www.sciencealert.com/the-science-is-in-exercise-won-t-help-you-lose-much-weight ) I got serious about it after dropping the first 100 lbs, when I was able to do cardio safely again.

Would I do the surgery again? In a heartbeat. Am I recommending it to you? Only if you and your bariatric specialist decide it is a good plan FOR YOU.

Best of luck.

DavidMcCann said:

I think the value of the designed meal program isn't to be a lifelong supply of meals, but to teach you how to plan meals and portions that will work for weight loss, and eventually maintain a weight.

I had a friend who lost a ton of weight simply by buying smaller plates, and not reloading when he was finished eating.

Click to expand...

I went back and reread my earlier post, and you know what, it sounds like I am still having issues with ownership. and I am still making excuses for not taking the effort to truly find out about the program. I did give them a call, and the first visit/consult is free... and the the program start at about $1600 (insurance will not touch this program for some reason). I would have to justify the cost, weighing so to speak, against how much I value my health...

Big_Red_Daddy said:

I have no feelings of hanger despite not eating for the past 36 hours. In fact, my hunger is greatly diminished and my mood is elevated.
Here is some science on it:
https://idmprogram.com/youre-always-hungry-fasting-28/
https://idmprogram.com/fasting-and-hunger-fasting-17/
https://www.dietdoctor.com/not-get-hungry-fasting-ghrelin

I lost 5 pounds since your last post and 24 pounds total this year. Fasting works and is beneficial to the body.
Do some research and give it a try. I won't post again unless you need some help with it.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the info, I appreciate it. I will research it further, but I guess I am one of the doubter people on this method... But I will look over the links you have sent.

patelldp said:

I typically stay away from these sorts of threads, but I'll toss my hat in the ring now.

Real quick history...in High School I played hockey and weighed about 170 lbs. I was strong, lifted weights twice a week, skated 6 days a week most weeks. I could eat whatever I wanted, which often included 10-12 cans of regular Coca Cola a day. My body needed as much energy as it could get.

College hit and I put on the Freshman 15 in the first 2 weeks probably. By the time I graduated I was probably 230 pounds. I then got a job and moved away from home. A year later when I married my wife I hit my high of 245lbs. I decided to do something about it, so I began walking for an hour over lunch and limiting my caloric intake to 1750 calories per day. I used MyFitnessPal to do it and managed to lure my good friend into losing weight with me for the accountability of it all. He lost a good amount too, but looking at my logs I got down to 204 in December of 2012.

I lost 41 lbs by limiting my caloric intake and increasing my activity level by walking. That's nowhere near the intensity of a fasting regimen. I wasn't consuming Kale smoothies exclusively, and I didn't join a gym. I held myself accountable and knew that I was in control of it. It doesn't happen as quickly as we'd all like, but it happens over time.

Fast forward to January 26, 2018...I was 221.6 lbs. I don't look as large as I did in 2012 because I am carrying my weight differently, but I didn't feel great. An average day for me included 1 to 3 IPA's after work because I LOVE the taste of IPA's. I love beer so much that I have logged 1139 different beers since 2012. It's an obsession, not unlike rocketry, but unlike rocketry it's destructive and awful for your health. I'm not an alcoholic, but the beer was keeping my weight too high.

Out came the MyFitnessPal again, this time limiting myself to 1500 calories. I acclimated myself to Lemon Lime seltzer. I've limited myself to 1-3 beers PER WEEK instead of per day. Since it's winter I haven't even been walking. I've lost 10.6 lbs in 18 days. When I consider that the beer that I like to consume is 240-320 calories per 16oz can I wonder why I did it to myself so regularly.

It's not easy, but it's also not hard. After a while you recognize the signs your body is giving you as positive change. I'm hungry in-between meals a lot but I'm not starving myself, and that hunger reminds me that I'm making progress. You embrace it. You feel good when you think "nah, I don't need a beer" and reach for a seltzer. Heck, it reinvigorated my love of beer and I enjoy the ones I allow myself to have even more now.

You can do it. The heavier you are, the more significant a small change becomes. If you're averaging 3000 calories a day, a 2200-2500 calorie a day diet will cause you to lose weight. If you're completely sedentary now a 30-60 minute per day increase in activity will cause you to lose weight. It won't happen immediately, but always be chasing that incremental change and KEEP YOURSELF ACCOUNTABLE.

When you think about it, it's a VERY simple equation:

Calories Consumed - Calories Used = Calorie Storage

If Calories Storage is a positive number, you gain weight.

Click to expand...

Thank you Dan! I have re-activated my fitness pal app, and have started the daily input. I have also started two logs, one is a brain dump log, to jot down anything that might be causing me to be depressed or unhappy, so I do not carry that weight around with me. I also use it to dump anything that I am thinking about that would keep me from getting any sleep. The other log is an "ownership" and "addiction" log. I need to take ownership so that I can stop making excuses. I also note addictions, so that I can formulate a plan to make the small changes.

Since I am home sick today, the wife and I will not be attending the WLS seminar...

Vombatidae said:

Dragon,

Just saw this thread, as I generally don't visit the watering hole. I have a few thoughts to share as someone who has been through a lot of common experiences: I am 52 and my max weight was 425 two years ago. I had high blood pressure, high cholesterol, plantar fasciitis, metabolic syndrome, sleep apnea, depression, and severe leptin resistance.

That last item was the key for me - the diets that doctors recommended, that I fought to stay on for years, were actually making things worse. They were literally killing me by making my system think it was starving, which caused it to shut down my metabolism and store fat. I tried virtually every plan out there, too. Plans that work fine for some made me sick as a dog when I followed them exactly.

Today, I weigh 205, (aiming for 185-190,) and am off blood pressure meds, off anti-depressents, have an LDL of 59, and am training for a week long 100-mile section hike on the Appalachian Trail this fall. Mandatory rocketry content: I got off my duff and re-certified L1 and L2 in the last few months after letting them lapse for a decade because I didn't have the energy to participate in launches.

Here are my take-aways from the experience:

1. One size does not fit all. What works for one may not for another, so find a bariatric specialist that is willing to find solutions that work for YOUR situation rather than running you through a pre-defined program.

2. Nearly everyone has advice and opinions, offered with the best of intentions, and MOST of them will be wrong FOR YOU. Feel free to ignore the advice of anyone who isn't actually a) a bariatric or nutrition expert and b) familiar with the details of YOUR situation, including me. My parents tried very hard to talk me out of my plan - until they saw the results.

3. Nearly every approach to weight loss comes in three flavors: half-baked, hard-core extremist, and pragmatic. Think Goldilocks and the three bears, here, and aim for the "just right". For example, I'm seeing a lot of fasting program ads these days, that insist you have to follow their precise plan for timing, what you eat at the end of the fasting period, etc. I have no doubt these plans worked - for the person selling them - but am very skeptical their magic formula is optimal in the general case.

There's a bit of a common theme there, you may have noticed, which is why I wanted to go through that before relating what I did, which may or may not work for anyone else.

I had DS surgery. For me, lap-band would have been a waste of time. RnY shows poorer long term results, and (arguably) a higher risk of side effects. Gastric sleeve might have been sufficient, but I had one shot at this on my insurance, and went for it. I experience two minor side effects, but they are nothing compared to the general improvement in health.

I follow a mostly ketogenic diet of 125g or more of protein a day, 25g or less of simple carbs a day (whenever possible - this can be tough to manage) and don't count fat intake one way or the other. So bacon and eggs are fine, but chugging EVOO is pointless. Starches like beans, corn, potatoes, etc. and most fruits are on my never-eat-again list, and salads are just working their way back in. Some people freak out when I describe this, but the blood tests show that this is working well for me. Eating enough protein and fat allows my system to burn calories instead of store them.

Exercise? Very important to overall health, but lots of recent studies have shown it just doesn't help with weight loss. (e.g. https://www.sciencealert.com/the-science-is-in-exercise-won-t-help-you-lose-much-weight ) I got serious about it after dropping the first 100 lbs, when I was able to do cardio safely again.

Would I do the surgery again? In a heartbeat. Am I recommending it to you? Only if you and your bariatric specialist decide it is a good plan FOR YOU.

Best of luck.

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Thank you for the sage advice! My insurance will task me to make many doctor visits, to include full physical, stress test, colonoscopy, etc etc over the course of the next 6-months before they would sign off on any WLS for me. I figured it could not hurt to get in for a consult, because my insurance will also require that I start a medically supervised diet, set by a bariatric professional. I figured it this way, and I might be wrong, but if I get in and start my 6-months towards approvals, that if the diet plan they put me on works, and I lose the weight, then I would have the option to not have the surgery, and I could continue the weight loss on my own. However, if after 6-months the professionals that be recommend that I seek surgery, than I will be faced with the one-time decision to move forward and get on the table.

As I have posted before, my mother has had gastric by-pass (10 yrs ago) and one of my sisters had the lap band (8 or 9 yrs ago). I have a brother who got real heavy, and went on a strict diet and now looks like a bean-pole. We do not talk due to family issues, otherwise I would lean on him. My other sister, who started out heavier than me, and has decided to NOT seek WLS, has lost over 85 lbs since this time last year, We met this past Sunday to talk about her weight loss journey, and my lack of one. She has agreed to be my fitness pal, and has started sharing some of her experiences with me. I have begun to make small changes, but like any sort of habit forming change, they will require a minimum of 21-days to really start to take hold. Today's change; no more artificial sweeteners for my coffee... Sugar left my diet years ago, all except for the added sugars in the processed boxed foods... those will be the next to go.

I'll share another perspective for your consideration.

I've never been fat. I'm 6' and at most have weighed 180lbs - primarily when I've put a heavy focus on strength training. My average weight is in the 160-165lbs range. That might make me wildly unqualified (or wildly qualified, lol) on how to lose (or maintain) weight. So for what it is worth from a skinny guy, I find that a feeling of fullness is what drives me to stop eating. Maybe that is obvious, but I think the key is how to feel full without a consuming a shedload of calories.

My solution? V8 juice. I'll have 1-2 glasses a day and right before I start a meal (breakfast, dinner). That fills me up quick and is low in calories - 50 per 8oz. They make a low sodium option for those trying to manage sodium intake. Plus, you know, veggies.

Sometimes it is a chore - anyone can get bored eating/drinking the same thing every day - but I force myself to drink the V8. Almost as though I have to 'take the medicine' to earn a meal. I find that I will eat maybe half as much food as I normally would after a V8.

Might be worth a try. There couldn't be a simpler plan than eat like normal but force yourself to have a couple V8s during the day, right?

I haven't reread the entire thread, but have you considered meeting with a mental health professional? You certainly seem to exhibit self destructive behaviors. You know your weight needs to come down, but you keep gaining weight. I would certainly consider that before surgery. Especially since I believe the the surgery cures a symptom, not the condition.

I can echo a few of the stories here myself. I'm 41 years old, 6'2" and went from 240lb to 180lb over the course of about 4 months last year using a combination of diet, exercise and habit control.

Diet wise I set a target of 1000 calories/day (I didn't always hit that target) for the first couple of months and then 1500/day when I was fit enough to start exercising more. A typical day would be:

Breakfast:
Coffee w/ 2% milk (2 cups)
Egg whites

Mid morning:
More coffee w/ milk

Lunch:
8oz lean protein (Tuna, Shrimp, Chicken, Tilapia fillets, etc.)
A large plate full (and I mean *large*) of low calorie vegetables (Lettuce, mushrooms, cucumber, radishes, bok choi, whatever works)
A couple of medium calorie vegetables (1/2 an avocado, 1/2 tomato)
More coffee

Snacks/Habit breakers: Veg (celery is a good one), more water, more coffee.

Dinner:
Similar to Lunch - maybe add a small amount of carbs (potato, pasta, rice, bread). The key is you should eat lots of high volume, low calorie stuff to feel full leaving the table.

Alcohol:
Only on weekends

Exercise:
1st month all I did was walk, 2-3 miles a day if possible, a good a pace as you can manage.
2nd month I jogged just 1 sloooow mile first thing in the morning before eating or drinking anything (forces your body to burn stored fat) and walked later in the day.
3rd month I found I was able to start jogging a bit further, go to the gym, swim, ride a bike, whatever floats you boat.

I'm in my 8th month now, I ran 10 miles today, my calorie consumption is back up into the 2500-3000 range to fuel my workouts and my weight has been consistently in the 180-185 range for 4 months.
I still keep calories low for breakfast and lunch.

Other advice that worked for me - YMMV:

- Really look at the calorie counts on what you're eating, anything incorporating much fat/oil/sugar is gonna blow your target fast.
- Use google to find out what foods have what calories, hot dogs are waaay higher than any non-processed meat. Turkey bacon is surprisingly good and much lower in calories.
- If you fall off the wagon and eat a bunch of carbs, you will also store water in ~4:1 ratio (e.g. half a pound of pasta also adds 2lb of water weight) so don't panic and remember that the next time you walk or jog both parts will drop off again.
- It really is as simple as calories in vs calories out - just use whatever techniques work for you to reduce the former and increase the latter.
- Get a good scale and weight yourself twice a day (morning and night) - track your high points (evening weight), and your low points (morning weight). This is a good scale with a nice app: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0728K4371/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


Good luck.

I was so light in high school they lied in the football program and said I was 145. Back then I could fire down 6,000 cal likenit was nothing

I got older. Doesn’t work like that anymore, sadly. I like to drink, and I LOVE to cook.

While not as drastic, I’ve had issues controlling weight. I figure I should be rolling around 185. I’ve been up to 245 and as low as 155, and bounced between those two several times over the last ten years. Right now, I seem stuck around 200. I walk 10-15 miles a day, and cut way back on drinking. Two things left. I need to adjust my diet, cut back on soda as well, and possible more high intensity excercise.

Ive found for myself, and those close to me, that tracking diet and excercise, setting goals and sticking to a plan is highly benfifical. It may not be your thing or work for you, but it may be worth a try. I’ve also seen benefit to cooking higher quality foods in lower volumes. I get the satisfaction payout mentally with less taken in.

it doesn’t seem to matter what diet my friends go on. Paleo, veggie, Adkins, They’re all technically BS, but they see results. All I can conclude is that the mere act of tracking and focusing on limiting what they’re eating is giving them benefit over an unrestricted diet.

Zebedee said:

I can echo a few of the stories here myself. I'm 41 years old, 6'2" and went from 240lb to 180lb over the course of about 4 months last year using a combination of diet, exercise and habit control.

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It's just that simple.

Eat less. Exercise more.

CORZERO said:

It's just that simple.

Eat less. Exercise more.

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Doesn’t always work. Last fall I was training for a half marathon. I was running 20-30 mikes per week and I watched what I ate. I lost ten pounds at first and then stopped. All that activity just kept me from gaining. I was later diagnosed with an under active thyroid.

There are a number of conditions that can change the whole equation as well as a lot of people whose metabolisms are just built differently. Human beings are highly variable. There are no “one size fits all” solutions... even the obvious and the “tried and true” things don’t work for everyone.


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Negative. It works 100% of the time. Just ask any Birkenau prisoner, even the ones with thyroid problems.

Weight loss is a battle of will. Period.

CORZERO said:

Negative. It works 100% of the time. Just ask any Birkenau prisoner, even the ones with thyroid problems.

Weight loss is a battle of will. Period.

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the trouble is, starvation is not the goal. Health is. If you have a medical condition that complicates weight loss, you can’t simply ignore it and stop eating to lose weight. You’ll cause more problems than the weight itself was.

DavidMcCann said:

the trouble is, starvation is not the goal. Health is. If you have a medical condition that complicates weight loss, you can’t simply ignore it and stop eating to lose weight. You’ll cause more problems than the weight itself was.

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Best wishes.