Washington Aerospace Club - Horrible club!

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paul.nortness

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Last year over memorial day weekend, I attended the Washington Aerospace Club's big "Fire in the Sky" launch, and I decided to join. I was very excited to belong to a rocket club, as for me rocketry tends to be a very solitary hobby. I am usually the only one out on the field when I fly. So this was a very big deal for me. Finally get to fly with other guys, talk about rocketry with others, etc.

Almost 8 months goes by and I realize I haven't heard a peep from my club, and nearly make a drive out to the field for a group launch that I wasn't notified had been rescheduled. So I find the contact list on the website and send an email. Come to find out, the guy in charge of membership didn't add me to the distribution list because "He hates getting spam so tries to limit the amount of spam members get". Then he asks me if I have attended any meetings yet. I say "How the heck can I attend a meeting when I have no idea where or when it is because I never got the email?" I say, "You know, considering you guys completely dropped the ball and didn't provide me with membership services for 8 months, I think the least you could do is take care of my fees for the next year" Then he comes back with "Oh no, we couldn't possibly do that. We have stuff to pay for with your dues".


Am I just being unreasonable here or do I have a legitimate beef? Would you guys expect your local club to comp your fees if you were in that situation or am I just being overly sensitive?
 
I just don't know what to do in a situation like that. It sure sounds like your money is more important than anything else to that person and maybe he shouldn't be doing what he does. Go to one of their meetings and talk to the club president, let him know there will be no further club dues coming from you and tell him why. It's about all you can do.
 
No! Any club that wants to continue to grow and thrive should correct their errors, even if that means replacing the person running the web page. Your request for a free year membership is not unreasonable. All it takes is one individual to destroy a club or at least the beginning of a tail spin that the club can not recover from. It sounds like, from what you said, that the club is in need of a complete make over. GO Hawks!
 
[/QUOTE]Almost 8 months goes by and I realize I haven't heard a peep from my club, and nearly make a drive out to the field for a group launch that I wasn't notified had been rescheduled. So I find the contact list on the website and send an email. Come to find out, the guy in charge of membership didn't add me to the distribution list because "He hates getting spam so tries to limit the amount of spam members get". Then he asks me if I have attended any meetings yet. I say "How the heck can I attend a meeting when I have no idea where or when it is because I never got the email?" I say, "You know, considering you guys completely dropped the ball and didn't provide me with membership services for 8 months, I think the least you could do is take care of my fees for the next year" Then he comes back with "Oh no, we couldn't possibly do that. We have stuff to pay for with your dues".


Am I just being unreasonable here or do I have a legitimate beef? Would you guys expect your local club to comp your fees if you were in that situation or am I just being overly sensitive?[/QUOTE]



I won't defend the fact that you were not added to the contact list; however, you should take responsibility for being a little more proactive. After 8 months you noticed? Have you been to any launches since Fire in the Sky? Afterall, you are aware of their website which has a schedule of all launches. Did you miss any launches that had been rescheduled and in which you weren't notified? There is a hotline most clubs provide for you to call on the day of the launch to see if it has been rescheduled? You did use the contact list to find that one launch was rescheduled.

You see where I am going with this? Don't sit on your butt for eight months without asking questions. Your problem could have been solved long before this.

Not all clubs are perfect . . . If you're looking for a perfect club, then GOOD LUCK. Be a part of the solution and speak up to the club and get your problems solved. It looks like you have been part of the problem by sitting on your butt and finally noticing something was wrong.

Quit venting and be proactive and help this problem come to light with the club and not here in the forums. A friend once told me "We all make mistakes, judge us by how we fix them." Remember, you just judged an entire club because of one individual.

If you ask me, I'd think about changing your subject header and at least change the exclamation point to a question mark.
On second thought, I'd strike the entire Horrible Club!
 
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Communication goes both ways. I'd call it a failure on both parts, without any spite or judgement.

Best thing to do is swallow it and move on. I didn't like how my union was. Instead of quitting, I became a steward. Perhaps offer to become a communication/newsletter guy
 
Communication is a two-way street, but if you did pay dues for last year, you should have been added to their 'active member'/hotlist for email distribution.

I am a (very) loosely affiliated member of my local NAR chapter; for the past several years my work schedule has been such that I could never attend a club business meeting -- at all. The Saturday mornings most club launches were scheduled on were not good for me because I had to work most Saturday afternoons, so I was pretty much scheduled-out of most club activities. But I remain on the email list so at least I still have an idea of what they are doing.

Needless to say, the prime concern of the person running the email list should not be how to avoid sending members emails.

I'd try to be a little more diplomatic about things. It may be one person dropping the ball or it could be (to some extent) inaction on your part. Maybe fixing one half of the equation will improve the situation.
 
You can complain all you want about a club but if you don't want to get actively involved are you really in that club?
 
You can complain all you want about a club but if you don't want to get actively involved are you really in that club?
But he wasn't added to the email list which he was paying for
 
From the other side of the fence. That is not all he was paying for. Who is filing for the waiver, getting permission from the land owner, taking care of the launch equipment, and i can go on. Eight months he could have contacted somebody and if nothing else offered some help. A club is run by a club or it won't last long.
 
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If it were my club (MTMA), we would consider cutting you some slack and extend your membership for a year. This depends on hearing the whole story.

I won't defend the fact that you were not added to the contact list; however, you should take responsibility for being a little more proactive. After 8 months you noticed? Have you been to any launches since Fire in the Sky?

That's harsh. But Harry does make a good point. I just looked at the Washington Aerospace website. It appears to be an actively maintained web site.

Washington Aerospace website

-Wolfram
MTMA Treasurer
NARAM-55 Treasurer
 
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I check my clubs website for launch dates. Was your first visit to the webpage after 8 months? Did you attend any club meetings? The Washington Aerospace Club website is pretty informative about the schedule for club meetings and launches.
 
The club I'm a dues-paying member of has my email and has never sent me anything. The launch was excellent yesterday.
 
Forgive me for being harsh, but from your version of the story it sounds like you would like to get something for nothing. You have been a member of the club for 8 months and decided to attend your "second" launch but were unable to because you were not on the email distribution list and hadn't been notified of the schedule change (which, by the way, does seem to be noted in the December meeting minutes on their website). At most I would think that you would request to have your membership extended for one month to account for the one launch that you missed, but even that seems just a little unreasonable to me. By the way...had you signed up for the email distribution list on their website, or just assume that by becoming a member you would be on the list? The do have a subscription link...

Remember that a club is not a business, and the volunteers put in a lot of effort to make these launches possible for us. I personally don't see that your situation warrants a statement that it is a "horrible club". You've barely given them a chance from what I can tell. Most of us don't get to choose our clubs...they are chosen because of location...but as members we ARE the club! Rocketry was taken to an entirely different level for me once I joined a club. It is so much better than the solitary hobby that you had previously. You gain friendships, knowledge, and get to see some very cool projects fly just by being there!

I recommend that you edit this post, apologize to the club, and become an active member so that you can help make it all that you want it to be. Alternatively, walk away and go back to enjoying rocketry in solitude...but you will be missing out on some of the best times that you could have in the hobby!

Cheers,
Michael
 
Seems like you are being a bit unreasonable, and you made an assumption that by joining the club, you would receive communication by email. I guess that is not how it works. The website looks pretty good, so that is probably how they expect you to keep yourself informed of meetings and launches, and it sounds like you can get email, but you need to sign up.

But I also think the club did drop the ball in a way if they did not provide you a "welcome packet" or some other kind of communication or orientation to let you know how the club works. Did they give you an ID card or any other info when you signed up and paid your dues?
 
But he wasn't added to the email list which he was paying for

But but but . . .The mailing list,, as it turns out in this case, is something you go to the club web site and register for. They aren't automatically completed for you.
 
But but but . . .The mailing list,, as it turns out in this case, is something you go to the club web site and register for. They aren't automatically completed for you.

Thats the way it is for ROC and TCC in CA. You must subscribe to the email list if you want to hear from them otherwise check on the website.

https://rocstock.org/email-updates/
 
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But but but . . .The mailing list,, as it turns out in this case, is something you go to the club web site and register for. They aren't automatically completed for you.

Ok you might be right but I only read the OP and he quoted that the guy didn't add him because he hates getting spam
 
Last year over memorial day weekend, I attended the Washington Aerospace Club's big "Fire in the Sky" launch, and I decided to join. I was very excited to belong to a rocket club, as for me rocketry tends to be a very solitary hobby. I am usually the only one out on the field when I fly. So this was a very big deal for me. Finally get to fly with other guys, talk about rocketry with others, etc.

Almost 8 months goes by and I realize I haven't heard a peep from my club, and nearly make a drive out to the field for a group launch that I wasn't notified had been rescheduled. So I find the contact list on the website and send an email. Come to find out, the guy in charge of membership didn't add me to the distribution list because "He hates getting spam so tries to limit the amount of spam members get". Then he asks me if I have attended any meetings yet. I say "How the heck can I attend a meeting when I have no idea where or when it is because I never got the email?" I say, "You know, considering you guys completely dropped the ball and didn't provide me with membership services for 8 months, I think the least you could do is take care of my fees for the next year" Then he comes back with "Oh no, we couldn't possibly do that. We have stuff to pay for with your dues".


Am I just being unreasonable here or do I have a legitimate beef? Would you guys expect your local club to comp your fees if you were in that situation or am I just being overly sensitive?

Unfortunately, this sort of thing happens. A club needs to be VERY CAREFUL whom they elect to certain positions and what sort of job their doing. It can't all be just "elect or appoint them and forget about it". The folks in leadership positions of the club can make or break a club, that's for sure.

I've seen it firsthand. We've had a club launching off our farm here for a number of years. The club fell under the leadership of a "president" who was all show and no go, who in about 3-4 years of launches only attended ONE launch, and then only so I could introduce him to my Dad's cousins who own the adjoining farm (whom we have as little to do with as possible-- long story) so he could get permission to "recover" rockets over the fence, and thus add their acreage to ours in an attempt to get HPR setback requirements met for HPR launches out here. After we returned to the range head that afternoon, a flight of a Scissor Wing Transport glided in somewhat fast and steep behind the cars about 30-40 yards away. He flipped out and demanded all launch rods be pointed straight up at all times, no tilting of the rod by ANY amount allowed (despite the 30 degree limitation in the MRSC being observed). This, and his cussing fit when people ignored him and tilted the rods anyway after he repeatedly went to the pads and pointed them straight up, and his subsequent cussing fit on the club's yahoo groups webpage, ignited a firestorm that would ultimately cause the club to implode, coupled with another incident about a year or so later, where a "has been" former club officer from an earlier era decided to take potshots at the new leadership from the peanut gallery (the club had been on life support a few times in its existence, dwindled down to nearly nothing with just one or two members keeping it alive, and built back-- this guy had been club president in one of these earlier eras, but interestingly had NOT been one of the core group that had kept the club alive during the "life support" periods, and the guy has NEVER attended a launch out here to my knowledge, yet he's going to tell the ones doing the work everything they're trying to do is wrong. He ultimately got run out of the club, and subsequently made trouble in another Houston area club and was run out of that one too.) The new leadership got SO disgusted with the situation that they basically quit, and things reverted to the previous president who had since been appointed "business manager" of the club, and who ran things like a "little tin god" and basically did EVERYTHING BUT run the club business. When the former NAR Advisor to the club (who HAD kept it alive on life support before out of his own pocket, basically when it was a "one man club" and brought it back from the edge of extinction TWICE) pointed out that he noticed that the club charter had not been renewed in February when it was due (by now it was June or July) and the club had been flying for several months WITHOUT NAR INSURANCE... When he asked about this situation, he was verbally attacked by the "business manager" and got disgusted and quit the club entirely (he'd stepped down from his Advisor role for awhile due to "real life" concerns demanding his time). As launch site owner, I started making inquiries into the insurance situation, and after repeated "the check is in the mail" empty assurances, I suspended all further launches until I physically received the NAR insurance statement showing it to be in full force and effect. So, after a hiatus of a couple or three months, I FINALLY received the insurance statement via email, and gave a "go" for resumption of monthly launches. The "flying" membership were eager to resume regular launches, yet with the loss of the NAR advisor and Vice President (to the peanut gallery attack incident earlier) there was basically NOBODY left who actually would set up the range, arrange the launches, etc. The "business administrator" wouldn't bother himself to schedule launches, and with nobody willing to step forward and do range duties of setup and teardown and stuff, months passed with basically no launches. As this situation stretched on into the following year, most of the flying membership simply quit or drifted away. Once the active flyers were gone, the club was basically a debating society, with nothing left but the non-active "business administrator", the "has been", and his sycophants. The club imploded and wasn't renewed.

The following winter, the former NAR Advisor started conversations with me about forming a new club, which I enthusiastically endorsed. He was torn over trying to revive the old Challenger 498 club, which had gone through at least two periods of "life support" before where the club had imploded, one due to the Compaq computer factory shutting down many years before (a large number of the members (including the peanut gallery attacker) were former Compaq employees), and a second time after a rich guy joined the club, started ingratiating himself to the membership with a lot of "freebies", which he then assumed entitled him to run the club as he saw fit, and when he was rebuffed, started threatening everyone with lawsuits over everything and anything, running off 99% of the membership and killing the club again-- back down to a one-man show, from which the Advisor had rebuilt it AGAIN. I thought about it and suggested that basically it'd probably be best to simply start from scratch-- that way you jettison all the baggage from "former iterations" of the club-- cut off the "peanut gallery" troublemakers at the knees when they come in and start spouting "how THEY ran the club 20 years ago" by virtue of the simple fact the club hadn't existed 20 years ago... The new club, "Old Rocketeers" started and got off to a good start, but has faltered somewhat... the Advisor has had life issues crop up again that has taken most of his time for the last year, and nobody else seems willing to step forward and run things. Which brings me to another point--

A club basically relies on a core group of active members who actually "do the work", to do the paperwork to keep the club charter active, to schedule and conduct launches and inform the membership, to do outreach programs or assistance programs for things like TARC, to do the physical work of setup and teardown of the range and conduct launches, etc. The wider and more talented that group, the better the club functions. When it's down to one or two guys, the club is definitely at risk for life issues causing that person or persons to be unable to continue doing all the work, and the club can become inactive. So, it's a balancing act-- you can't just put "anybody" in certain positions, because you get the same sort of "ineffective" leadership that you and I mentioned, and the club suffers because of it. At the same time, you need as many people as possible involved in the club operations, to ensure that "life issues" cropping up and causing one of the club leaders to have to "drop out" for awhile, doesn't deal a severe blow to operations.

About the only thing I can see is, "be involved" to the extent you can be. I'm not always around or I'd do more with conducting launches... I used to do a lot of photography of club launches and do monthly launch reports, which I felt I could contribute to fairly effectively, and I helped with setup and teardown at the launches I was able to attend. Others might be in a better position to help with club communications, business administration, etc. Find an area where you can contribute, and pitch in to help as much as you can. "Many hands make light work". It not only helps the club, it helps the membership via better services, which drums up and maintains interest in the club.

Good luck! OL JR :)
 
We are blessed with a great club here in Idaho. Great people run it and everything seems to run very smoothly.

In your situation it seems like they may have dropped the ball initially. You may have dropped the ball a little bit by not reaching out to them a few times in the 8 months to get things sorted out. Some clubs probably don't have good honest people running them. Not saying that is what is going on with your club but it's always a possibility.
 
A club is not a product that you purchase and hope it works as advertised. You get out of it what you put in. In this case it seems that you didn't put in the effort to understand the workings of the club. On the other hand if a club is going to charge dues then it should offer up some level of service to its members. I think you have some room for a gripe here but you also share in the fault.

To characterize a club as horrible and proclaim it in a thread title because of the actions or inactions of a single member probably won't indear you to the rest of the membership. I'd say give it another chance but I think you probably torched that bridge.
 
The next thread I am expecting is: Washington Aerospace Club - Terrific club! I am an active member and have helped to fix their email notification system because gosh dern it I am good enough, smart enough and people like me!:D
 
A club is not a product that you purchase and hope it works as advertised. You get out of it what you put in. In this case it seems that you didn't put in the effort to understand the workings of the club. On the other hand if a club is going to charge dues then it should offer up some level of service to its members. I think you have some room for a gripe here but you also share in the fault.

To characterize a club as horrible and proclaim it in a thread title because of the actions or inactions of a single member probably won't indear you to the rest of the membership. I'd say give it another chance but I think you probably torched that bridge.

I agree in principle... but if a club is charging dues, it should be providing the services advertised... Now if they're NOT collecting dues, then I don't think anybody has any realistic expectation of much of anything. Some clubs charge no dues, some are rather steep, some are in the middle, and some charge range fees and launch fees and stuff like that... Generally speaking, the more you pay, the more I'd say you have a reasonable expectation that things will be "as advertised".

Sounds like whomever the OP is dealing with isn't a very effective communicator... hardly the qualities one would want in whomever is in charge of emails and communications with the membership and public, I would think. Saying "oh, no, we won't do anything like that... we have things to buy with your dues money" is IMHO a very poor way of putting it, and only will incite more anger and discontentment. Being more neutral and saying something like, "I'm sorry, I'll look into the problem, and I'll communicate your concerns to the club officers" or something along those lines would be FAR more productive and tend to defuse the situation rather than escalate it... One would think that a person in charge of club communications would be aware of such things...

At any rate, I DO know that it is impossible to solve a problem of which you are not aware, and it sounds like the OP didn't do much to inform the club leadership of his problems or concerns. If you don't let them know you're not getting informed of the launches, schedules, etc., and aren't aware of their policies or means of communications (for instance, some clubs are highly reliant on their webpages for "up to the minute" information, and some use emails or "Yahoo Groups!" pages or phone chains or whatever means to communicate last minute changes or remind members of upcoming events... It is then the responsibility of the member to actually follow through and check up on those preferred means of communication and make sure that everything is still on, that there hasn't been delays or postponements, or whatever... And, while a person might have their own preferred means of communication, the club's preferred means of communication may be different... IOW, expecting to be notified by email or cell phone of every delay or postponement when the club communications person uses email or updates on a Yahoo Group is unreasonable IMHO...

While the OP may have been a little more "emotional" in his response or than he should perhaps have been, I DO think he's got a legitimate concern that should be addressed... I know in his position, if I had a club official tell me something like that, I'd be looking for a different club... I strongly suspect a lot of folks would feel the same way. That's not how you grow your club... People expect to be taken seriously when they have a problem or concern, even if the answer later on is "no"... just getting the brushoff is never acceptable IMHO...

Later! OL JR :)
 
I know in his position, if I had a club official tell me something like that, I'd be looking for a different club... I strongly suspect a lot of folks would feel the same way. That's not how you grow your club... People expect to be taken seriously when they have a problem or concern, even if the answer later on is "no"... just getting the brushoff is never acceptable IMHO...

Later! OL JR :)

Why would you shoot yourself in the foot because the answer you get from ONE individual isn't to your liking? Really, are people that reactionary?

Why not, instead, take the time and attend one meeting and bring up the issue to the entire BoD? You might then find a sympathetic ear, maybe enough members in attendance will agree with you that the BoD will also agree. If one issue regarding communication is the straw that breaks the camel's back, then I'd say good riddance to the complainer.
 
The next thread I am expecting is: Washington Aerospace Club - Terrific club! I am an active member and have helped to fix their email notification system because gosh dern it I am good enough, smart enough and people like me!:D

In 2001, I met a few members of the Washington Aerospace Club at the Arliss Launch (Blackrock Desert), and they were great people. Have also heard nothing but good regarding their "Fire In the Sky" launches and would love to attend one before I move on (Bucket List). Having already attended Springfest 2001(Las Vegas), NSL 2001(Pony Express Missile Test Range/Utah), NYPower 2001 (Genesseo, NY), Dairy Aire 2001 (TCC, Caruthers, CA), and a number of Blackrock launches? Still need to attend an LDRS launch and an October Skies launch.
 
Face to face conversation is the best form of communication. Set up a time to sit down with them and get it worked out. I am sure it will all be fine in the end. If you see leadership lacking in the organization then start making some changes yourself and help them out.
 
Why would you shoot yourself in the foot because the answer you get from ONE individual isn't to your liking? Really, are people that reactionary?

Why not, instead, take the time and attend one meeting and bring up the issue to the entire BoD? You might then find a sympathetic ear, maybe enough members in attendance will agree with you that the BoD will also agree. If one issue regarding communication is the straw that breaks the camel's back, then I'd say good riddance to the complainer.

I suppose so... It'd be worth a shot I guess...

Usually this sort of thing doesn't happen in a vacuum, though... usually the guy doing stuff like that is big buddies with all the BOD guys or whatever, and that's why he does it-- because he can get away with it. Not always, true, but lots of times...

As for "good riddance to the complainer", well, if it's a better fit for the guy who's not happy with the club, and the club itself is happy doing business that way, well, it's probably better for BOTH to part ways... OTOH, I think that a club doing that sort of thing isn't going to be growing much...

Later! OL JR :)
 

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