Anyone Have A "D" Powered Estes Crossfire?

I'm gonna' get a couple more Estes Crossfire ISX Kits to play with. Tonight, while looking at the one I already have, I realized that the Body Tube is the same diameter to hold a D Motor. I have some LOC D Size MMT, that would make a nice D Powered Crossfire. I know I'll need a little Nose Weight and all, but my Mind is made up. I also realize I will likely lose the Model on it's first Flight, even though it is going to use a Streamer for Recovery.

I did a Search, but had not found that anyone has done this yet, though I'm sure someone has. Got any Stories???

It Begins!!!




I am naming it Crossfire DX. I think that is a great Name for it. It syncs well with the original, and has the D to denote the Motor Size, and an X for Experimental.
I guess I'll have to go without a Tail Cone, and the only parts I'll be using from one of the Crossfire Kits will be the Nose Cone and the Decal.
This will be fun.
If it does have a successful Flight with Recovery, it will be put on Display, as the odds of Recovering it will be slim.
Being a small Rocket, I'll be able to build it indoors even though it is Winter.

If they've got stories, I bet they all end with... "And that's the last I ever saw it!"

That rocket really flies on a B motor. But a "D" really. :surprised: Let's hear your brass clink and put an "E" engine hook in that bad boy! Take a picture before you launch it.

Seriously. That's cool. I'd say check the balance and do a swing test on it before you fly it.

What was that, that Scottie used to say on Star Trek? "She given all she's got Capt. she can't take any more!"

Lol,
David

Astronot said:

But a "D" really. :surprised: Let's hear your brass clink and put an "E" engine hook in that bad boy!

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And if you're going to put an "E" engine block, you might as well go all in with an Aerotech F32 single use motor (cause you know you're not getting the hardware back)!

-Dave

Dave,

I like the way you think!

TopRamen,

On a technical note, you're probably gonna want to lengthen the fuselage for better balance and to get more bang for your buck on nose weight.

Just my 2 cents. I'm not gonna help you any more! You're on your own from here on out.

David

djfuller said:

And if you're going to put an "E" engine block, you might as well go all in with an Aerotech F32 single use motor (cause you know you're not getting the hardware back)!

-Dave

Click to expand...

+2!!! You can always accommodate a smaller motor, but never a bigger one...



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Well, I flew mine on an Aerotech D10W. It's not the same as a D12, but the D10 has a bit more impulse anyway. It left the pad pulling 35 Gs, and moving at mach .6. It flew to a projected apogee of over 1,500 ft. It deployed the parachute a bit before apogee. I had poured in a few teaspoons of tracking powder (bright red/orange) and it all came out, allowing me to track it about 100 ft. below apogee with that. The mylar streamer deployed partially, and it was reflective enough to allow tracking down to the tree line. Then, I kept a few reference points, and walked straight out towards it. before I got to it, som other people searching the field for an AWOL Blackhawk 24 stumbled upon it, and handed it to me, unscathed.
So, If you have enough tracking powder, a mylar streamer, and a sonic alarm wouldn't hurt, then you should be able to find it after an amazing flight. Those D10s area amazing! The flame was almost as long as the rocket- on a D

Good luck, and someone has to try it on a D24T. maybe an 18/24 adapter?

As for the tail cone, perhaps you can drill a hole through the tailcone shoulder, and bodytube, and install the motor block one motor length above the top of the tailcone shoulder. Then when you put motor up to the motor block, and put the screws through the hole, the tail cone or screws can act as a motor retainer. It will also help move the CG forwards.

photos and videos of the launch here: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?24950-liftoff!-gallery/page18&highlight=liftoff+gallery post 524

Nate

As stated earlier, I put the odds of recovering this Rocket at little to none. I'm doing this simply because I can.
Since I'm not going to lengthen the Fuselage, (It would'nt be a Crossfire anymore if I did), the amount of Nose Weight I'll need and those Draggy Strakes on the Fins will have to keep her stable. Ofcourse I'll spin her on a string to confirm Stability before launching. The Motor will be taped to form a Thrust Ring and Friction Fit. I'm going to "Wrap" the LOC Body Tube, because then I don't need a Decal, I can just Print "Crossfire DX" on my #110 Cardstock. The Fins are going to be Plywood. I already have the first one drawn on the Wood, and after I cut it out, will simply trace it two more time onto the Wood for my next Fins. The Strakes should'nt be too hard if I just start with Rectangles, cut the Slits in them, then shape them on the Belt Sander.

Anyhow, thanks for the Words of encouragement. I've already taken the Nose Cone from my current Crossfire to use on this one, and will simply replace it with one from one of the new Crossfire Kits I'll order soon.
Well. I guess we'll just have to see what I come up with.

Oh, what's the best place to get Mylar Streamer Material. I was thinking I'de just buy a "Space Blanket" for a couple Bucks and just cut a Strip out of it.

a good source for mylar would be you local grocery store. buy one of those silvery looking heleum filled baloons.

I just realized I'll have to Mod the Nose Cone to get the Weight in there. I don't want to put too much work into this, since I might not get it back. I hate making Nose Cone Bulkheads. Oh well, I'll do what needs done.

TopRamen said:

Oh, what's the best place to get Mylar Streamer Material. I was thinking I'de just buy a "Space Blanket" for a couple Bucks and just cut a Strip out of it.

Click to expand...

Space blankets are fine. I have also used "mylar" wrapping paper but it tends to be a little thicker.

Kevin

Has anyone created a good sim file for this which includes the stabilizers on the trailing edge of the fins? The 18mm D10 looks pretty interesting.

Don't be so pessimistic, you can recover it. We launched our Estes Metalizer with a composite single use D (18mm) at a club function which means big field and lots of eyes. What helped was the ejection charge was way too long, so it was coming in fast and ripped a couple of the shroud lines and allowed it to act like a streamer...plus it's a flashy silver rocket to begin with. Granted, the Metalizer is no lightweight, but don't assume you'll lose it and use some odds in your favor to try and get it back so you can try to lose it later with something bigger than a BP D next time!!!

I've found with the crossfire you can just always use a streamer - never had any problems on landing (one advantage of the engine hook and tailcone)

Zebedee said:

I've found with the crossfire you can just always use a streamer - never had any problems on landing (one advantage of the engine hook and tailcone)

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My regular Crossfire has been Streamer since the Beginning. I used Flagging Tape for the Streamer. I read too many stories on here about folks losing it on a Chute'. Even my Estes Patriot is Streamer Recovery.

The Fins begin production.:






Also, I cut off the bottom of the Nose Cone so I can get in there and do what needs done. Making a Tiny Bulkhead to seal it up won't be to tricky since it's so small.

Whatever becomes of it, it's just nice to be doing something with Rockets again.

It's looking good!
This should really move, and like others have said, you just know if you get it back it's gonna be begging for an F32T!

Nice job on the fins!


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rocketgeek101 said:

Nice job on the fins!


Sent from my iPod touch using Rocketry Forum

Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll have them finished up tonight. I'll be back to post Pics'.

Fins.

To make the "Strakes" for the Fins, I'm using Basswood. I ran out of Cutoff Wheels for the Dremel while making the Plywood Fins. Also, the Strakes will require precise fitting to the Fins, so the soft Basswood will be easy to work with.
I did'nt have the right thickness of Basswood, so I'm gluing two pieces together to make the Stock for making the Strakes.
I'm so happy to be building Rockets again. Yeah, there is a little bit of Dust, but nothing like building a TLP Midpower Kit. Can't wait to get my other Crossfire Kits. I think from now on, unless I get a Heated outdoor Workshop, Winter will be the season for LPR Builds.

This Wood should be dry and ready to be cut in a couple of Hours.

nute said:

Well, I flew mine on an Aerotech D10W. It's not the same as a D12, but the D10 has a bit more impulse anyway. It left the pad pulling 35 Gs, and moving at mach .6. It flew to a projected apogee of over 1,500 ft. It deployed the parachute a bit before apogee. I had poured in a few teaspoons of tracking powder (bright red/orange) and it all came out, allowing me to track it about 100 ft. below apogee with that. The mylar streamer deployed partially, and it was reflective enough to allow tracking down to the tree line. Then, I kept a few reference points, and walked straight out towards it. before I got to it, som other people searching the field for an AWOL Blackhawk 24 stumbled upon it, and handed it to me, unscathed.
So, If you have enough tracking powder, a mylar streamer, and a sonic alarm wouldn't hurt, then you should be able to find it after an amazing flight. Those D10s areaamazing! The flame was almost as long as the rocket- on a D

Click to expand...

You must have better eyesight than I do. I launched an Estes Rampage (2061) back in 1996 on a D21-7T single-use. It teleported off the pad and was not visible until the rocket slowed down enough the see the smoke trail. I actually got the bottom half back, but never found the payload section.

Good luck, and someone has to try it on a D24T. maybe an 18/24 adapter?

Click to expand...

I personally would not want to sacrifice another RMS-18/20 case to the rocket gods. I have lost two over the years because of wimpy motor hooks. Stick to single use motors on these kind of flights, your wallet will thank you.

Got my Three "Tiles" of Basswood Stock ready to be turned into Strakes. I rushed it a little, but they are solid.
Also got my First Fin on.
I decided not to wrap the Body Tube. It is LOC MMT Tubing and is plenty stout enough without it. Also, this means I could mount the Fins directly to the Body Tube after scuffing up the Root Edge and the Body Tube. I like 5 Minute Epoxy for this, and after they are all mounted they'll get Fillets of more Epoxy, likely JB Weld. I'm still working on my Fillet Techniques, and JB is easy to work with and if I need to sand a little bit down it's good for that too.

mwtoelle said:

You must have better eyesight than I do. I launched an Estes Rampage (2061) back in 1996 on a D21-7T single-use. It teleported off the pad and was not visible until the rocket slowed down enough the see the smoke trail. I actually got the bottom half back, but never found the payload section.


I personally would not want to sacrifice another RMS-18/20 case to the rocket gods. I have lost two over the years because of wimpy motor hooks. Stick to single use motors on these kind of flights, your wallet will thank you.

Click to expand...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who had the idea to put the 18 mm composites in relatively small rockets! That sounds like one heck of a flight!

And about the D24T, I was mistaken, it is the D21T that's single use. I would never recommend putting a case in this rocket if you don't wanna lose it. The D21T could still be fun though

nute said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who had the idea to put the 18 mm composites in relatively small rockets! That sounds like one heck of a flight!

And about the D24T, I was mistaken, it is the D21T that's single use. I would never recommend putting a case in this rocket if you don't wanna lose it. The D21T could still be fun though

Click to expand...

The Thread about the 18mm D Composites is what inspired me to play with the Crossfire again. It's also why I'm ordering a few of them to play with. Figured it would be fun to start with stuff I already had in Stock, and thus this Build.

Anyhow, here's the part where I get to feel all Smart by drawing with my Mechanical Pencil to make a Template for the Strakes. I also traced my Fins, and scanned both to my Computer, so as to be able to make Copies if and as I need them.

try to find an AT G-55 single use motor that will make it rip off the pad

oddmanrockets said:

try to find an AT G-55 single use motor that will make it rip off the pad

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Geez' I'll bet! Let's see what happens with a Black Powder D first.

Well, I think this is as far as I'm going to get tonight. I need to come up with a good way to cut Slits into the Strakes. I used a Dremel Cut Off Wheel to cut the Slits in the Fins, then finished them off with a File, but I Broke my last Cut Off Wheel. Oh, well, atleast the Fins are on.

Ive flown my Estes Big Bertha and Black Brant's on G-55s and F-74 with no real mods and recovered them balsa fins and all I soak the fins with thin CA and put in longer shock cords