keithp
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I just went to my local HRO and they had them in stock (I think the model is actually FT1DR). I got black, of course, because silver is some kind of kiddie radio color.
which radio ?
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I just went to my local HRO and they had them in stock (I think the model is actually FT1DR). I got black, of course, because silver is some kind of kiddie radio color.
keithp
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I looked at both, and while the TH-D72 is an awesome radio, the Yaesu has a menu system that I'm more familiar with, and is quite a bit smaller. My neighbor happens to have a kenwood, which means by getting the Yaesu, I can easily test with both receivers when making changes to the AltusMetrum APRS code. Definitely not a typical reason for picking a radio
We did it because with the new radios, it is possible now. Our older radio chips (cc1111) had fixed maximum transmission length, which couldn't hold a whole APRS packet. And, of course, because I love doing fun stuff with software. Learning about APRS was definitely good for a couple of days of fun software hacking.
We're still not excited about it, technically, compared with the native digital telemetry as it's 1/16 the speed (1200bps compared with 19200 bps), less reliable (no FEC), and worse baseband modulation technique (AFSK instead of native FSK).
Native Altus Metrum telemetry sends packets ten times per second during ascent, and once per second during descent. That includes GPS position and status (accuracy, number of sats in solution, etc), GPS satellite info, and data for all of the sensors on the board.
APRS takes a full second just to send lat/lon and altitude.
But, if you've got an HT with a built-in APRS receiver and GPS, it's definitely nice to have the option for locating the airframe!
Glad we could make it happen, and I hope you find it useful!
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I encourage people to try both the Kenwood and Yaesu radios before buying, if possible. The menu system designs are radically different! I find the Yaesu very confusing and find the Kenwood to be intuitive. It sounds like Keith has the opposite experience. Everybody is different...
The Altus Metrum (and other vendor) products were off the table because I didn't want to have to have another piece of GSE. But now they're on my wish list...
Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum
The Altus Metrum (and other vendor) products were off the table because I didn't want to have to have another piece of GSE. But now they're on my wish list...
Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum
keithp
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That's awesome to hear! Thanks!
CarVac
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Maybe you could make the altimeters periodically emit an aprs packet so you can use both a laptop for real-time high data rate info during boost, but allowing you to walk around easily tracking the rocket with an aprs handset pointing the way for you.
keithp
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Yup, this is exactly what we do. Of course, while APRS is using the radio, you're not getting other telemetry data. The other ground station option here is TeleBT with an Android phone, which uses the regular Altus Metrum telemetry but displays the information on your phone instead of your laptop. Best of both worlds, plus you get live mapping during recovery so you can see which road to drive down to collect your rocket instead of guessing based on direction and distance.
stealth6
insert witty tagline here
I track with a BRB900 and a handheld GPS unit. I'm a complete newb when it comes to "traditional" style RF tracking. But I'd like to learn more.
It just so happens that Amazon spammed me with an email the other day listing a whole slew of radios. I have no idea why I got this email from them. Anywho, it looks like there are a lot of inexpensive options there. I've heard some folks say to stay away from Baofeng stuff at all costs, and others say they are a decent inexpensive option. Are any of these useful for rocket tracking, and are any of them actually good deals?
s6
It just so happens that Amazon spammed me with an email the other day listing a whole slew of radios. I have no idea why I got this email from them. Anywho, it looks like there are a lot of inexpensive options there. I've heard some folks say to stay away from Baofeng stuff at all costs, and others say they are a decent inexpensive option. Are any of these useful for rocket tracking, and are any of them actually good deals?
s6
according to matthew's profile, he lives in australia. things might be different there.
keithp
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Yeah, I guess it's possible that silver is the better choice for him then
definitely. I heard dingoes hate silver!
Yeah, I guess it's possible that silver is the better choice for him then
Do they work upside down?
keithp
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Do they work upside down?
I don't know, I didn't have my radio with me a few weeks ago in Perth. But I'll find out next year when we're at Thunda Down Unda!
https://thunda.com.au/
scsager
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Do a little shopping around on Amazon - the Baofeng currently runs about $32 delivered. I got one last November for $29.66 The Plain -Jane UV-5R is the one you want.
Ham Radio "Fox Hunting" is very similar to what we do in rocketry to locate rockets via RDF.
Tons of (Ham Fox Hunting) information on the interwebs via Google search.
It's relatively easy to get a "Technician Class" Ham Radio License, and the test is inexpensive.
1.BaoFeng UV-5r (not the plus or the 5ra, just the plain UV-5r) - about $32 @ Amazon
2.Big Red Bee RF transmitter, charger & battery. (package deal) $85
3.7-element Yagi antenna from Arrowantennas.com $59
4.Offset Attenuator from Arrowantennas.com $59
The Big Red Bee transmitts on the 70cm (440 mhz) Ham band, and the BaoFeng receives that band.
You may be able to build #3 and #4 from plans available all over the internet, and save even more.
Total cost around $235 for transmitter and receiver. This setup will work nicely for locating rockets. :clap:
I'll see you there. That launch is part of the reason for my interest in this thread. I hope to launch my L3 project to around 13k'.
Say, I was reading through the AM user guide yesterday. There's mention of a TeleGPS to be available in the first quarter of this year. Are you still on track for that? I'm hoping it's what you were referring to when mentioning your testing APRS with your neighbor's radio (along with the TeleMega).
keithp
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Awesome!
We've got a couple of prototypes in design; when we get something working, we'll be able to schedule production. Given how many new products we're working on right now, it's a bit hard to know when TeleGPS will be for sale though. We're trying to finish TeleMetrum v2 in the next week; we've got replacement TeleDongle's almost done, and another batch of TeleMega ordered. Then we may try to get a larger batch of EasyMini boards made, and TeleMini has been prototyped but not finished. We'll get there, but I'm not sure "when" at this point
I was testing TeleMetrum v2 and TeleMega. The only built TeleGPS prototype is dead at this point and I need to build more. Fortunately, they share almost all of their code, so it really doesn't matter which board I'm testing for a lot of the software parts.
Greg Young
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Thanks for the information on how you al have been using GPS folks!
I knew about the telemetry advantages, but wasn't aware folks lose the radio beacon upon landing in the Black Rock desert..
Up here it's all grasses, along with trees, cornfields and soy fields (fun wow!).
I might just have to play with a GPS unit in the near future.(but I still like Df'ng, so as long as I have a signal I promise no to cheat and look at the map.)
I knew about the telemetry advantages, but wasn't aware folks lose the radio beacon upon landing in the Black Rock desert..
Up here it's all grasses, along with trees, cornfields and soy fields (fun wow!).
I might just have to play with a GPS unit in the near future.(but I still like Df'ng, so as long as I have a signal I promise no to cheat and look at the map.)
I just found this interesting little project:
https://www.trackuino.org/
It is an open source, diy aprs transmitter that is controlled by an arduino. The radio is a little on the expensive side (~$70) but I might still buy one to experiment with. Basically you could build a aprs tx for <$150.
https://www.trackuino.org/
It is an open source, diy aprs transmitter that is controlled by an arduino. The radio is a little on the expensive side (~$70) but I might still buy one to experiment with. Basically you could build a aprs tx for <$150.
Winston
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After reading a lot of reviews, I was considering buying one of those. I prefer its rotary encoder knob (I'm used to that from Icom HTs) over the up/down arrow freq change method and it supposedly has a better front end vs. previous Baofengs. Have you used it for RDF? The s-meter bar graph on the LCD looks pretty small and I've read a comment in a forum where one guy says he has great luck with it for RDF and another says his s-meter pretty much presents nothing but an "all or nothing" indication with virtually no gradation in between.
FYI, especially for those who do mobile work on amsats, the Baofeng UV-B5 and B6 can't do cross-band operation like the slightly older Baofeng UV-82, but at $45 each, just buy two and have full duplex for less than the cost of one major brand HT.
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Winston
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I was avoiding that model and considering the ~$10 more expensive, later model UV-5B because of this complaint and similar ones found in amateur RDF comments:
Q: Why doesn't the S-Meter function in a normal fashion?
A: The SDR receiver found in the UV-5R & UV-82 series does not measure an incoming signal in the traditional fashion based on strength, but rather the amount of noise. Once the signal becomes Full Quieting, it cannot determine the difference between an S1 or S9 signal. Unfortunately, this is by design.
Have you found that that's not a problem?
UV-5R meter is on when there is a signal. It doesn't vary with the strength. Go to this site:
https://www.miklor.com/uv5r/UV5R-FAQ.php#display
Not a good one to use for tracking. Now one can take the audio off the earphone jack and run DireWolf on a laptop to get the lat/long with APRS. (I have a -5R)
https://home.comcast.net/~wb2osz/site/
Those cheap DTV dongles have a broad frequency range and this one has an AFSK decoder in it:
https://gqrx.dk/
Can be a PITA to setup though in Linux.
Easiest would be Direwolf with a laptop that has something like YAAC, APRSIS32, UI-View or Xastir on it. Could use a scanner to receive.
Note well, hard to see laptop screens in sunlight. Xastir and UI-View can record the flight for playback. UI-View can do it for realtime playback whereas Xastir can replot the points. No dice for playback with YAAC or APRSIS32
For triapsing around, can't beat a VX-8GR or a D72A interfaced to a mapping handheld GPS. The 8GR or D72 can pull waypoints off to a handheld gps like a 60Cx or legend or 76C series. Takes you right up to the last received packet. Gets you close enough to the rocket to get a new position packet.
With APRS becoming more economical, I wouldn't bother with non-directional beacons unless really pressed for space.
Kurt
Winston
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From my reading elsewhere, that's exactly what I thought, but I saw it recommended here, so I asked. The link you provide is where I got that Q/A on the UV-5R and UV-82 s-meter issue. The UV-82, basically the UV-5R in a larger case, has the same problem. The newer Baofeng UV-B5 and B6 supposedly have a better front end and a proper s-meter response not just based upon FM quieting, although their s-meter bar graph on the LCD looks awfully small.
Winston
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That comment got me wondering if anyone has come up with a way to use those $20 eBay DVB-T dongles as an SDR in Android so I can use my 7" Android tablet. Found this and will continue to research:
Android Meets the RTL2832U
January 29, 2013
https://www.hamradioscience.com/android-meets-the-rtl2832u/
SDR Touch Android App
https://sdr.martinmarinov.info/
"SDR Touch turns your mobile phone or tablet into a cheap and portable software defined radio scanner. Allows you to listen to live on air FM radio stations, weather reports, police, fire department and emergency stations, taxi traffic, airplane communications, audio of analogue TV broadcasts, audio amateurs, digital broadcasts and many more! Depending on the hardware used, its radio frequency coverage could span between 50 MHz and 2.2 GHz. It currently demodulates WFM, AM, NFM, USB, LSB, DSB, CWU and CLW signals.
You can get a compatible USB receiver for under $20 online from eBay. Just plug in your rtl-sdr compatible USB DVB-T tuner into your Android device using a USB OTG Cable and turn on SDR Touch. For list of supported Realtek RTL2832U based dongles, please see the end of the description."
[video=youtube;_-0-HjSg_r4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-0-HjSg_r4&list=PLYbQxCQ2X4K0CKcHyG3pCYznIkB0HP2H_[/video]
My only observation here is with the SDR can have varying results with different hardware. I've been under the linux OS and with one laptop gqrx will decode APRS packets just fine, another laptop it won't. It can be fun and dandy to play around with this stuff but I will tell you, out in the field, the best means is something you can hold in your hand. A mapping Garmin GPS interfaced with an -8GR, D7A(g) (if it still works), or a D72 can't be beat. If you can get your smartphone to display the rocket position on a map, great. I don't have a fancy phone.
I will lock a laptop up in the car with an external antenna and use Xastir or UI-View to record a flight but for going after the rocket, a handheld setup cannot be beat. I re-iterate that it is danged near impossible to read a laptop screen in the sun. Handheld mapping GPS units are designed to be readable in sunlight.
The smartphones I don't know how they are.
Now, if you are going to manually input lat/long in your handheld GPS from a radio, you have to sit down beforehand and sort out the units situation.
Decimal degrees? Decimal minutes? Degrees, minutes seconds? One needs to be aware what the radio telemtry is sending you and what you have to input by
hand into your mapping unit. If you don't fingure that out before hand, you will get plenty angry and frustrated. Work it out before you go to launch and it will be a piece of cake. If you only have one choice, go as "portable" as possible. Kurt
Kurt
I will lock a laptop up in the car with an external antenna and use Xastir or UI-View to record a flight but for going after the rocket, a handheld setup cannot be beat. I re-iterate that it is danged near impossible to read a laptop screen in the sun. Handheld mapping GPS units are designed to be readable in sunlight.
The smartphones I don't know how they are.
Now, if you are going to manually input lat/long in your handheld GPS from a radio, you have to sit down beforehand and sort out the units situation.
Decimal degrees? Decimal minutes? Degrees, minutes seconds? One needs to be aware what the radio telemtry is sending you and what you have to input by
hand into your mapping unit. If you don't fingure that out before hand, you will get plenty angry and frustrated. Work it out before you go to launch and it will be a piece of cake. If you only have one choice, go as "portable" as possible. Kurt
Kurt
Winston
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I was planning to use the SDR software with its spectrum display for RDF only. I already have a DVB-T dongle and am waiting for the USB USB cable I ordered. We'll see if my tablet's USB port can relaibly power the DVB-T dongle without an external 5V power source. That's often a problem from what I've read.
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