L3 Project Build Thread - Performance Rocketry Competitor 4

jderimig said:

^+100

I hope the $100 of included materials and supplies includes a full-face respirator with new carbon and P100 particulate filter. If not, add that to your list.

Also do not spray where kids or neighbors can breathe the overspray. Premixed catalyzed urethanes usually employ a curative that is moisture activated. Which means do not let it get into your's and anyones moist respiratory system or eyes. It will never leave.

Good luck and be safe.

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I've actually been considering upgrading from my current half mask (3M 7503) to a full mask respirator like the 3M 6800. My hope is that it doesn't fog up like goggles and will allow me to wear my glasses and have a better fit.

A little antiperspirant swiped under your eyes on your cheekbones will help stop your goggles from fogging.

jderimig said:

Here is a link to the MSDS sheets on the product.
https://www.basfrefinish.com/cgi-bi..._code=&country=All&language=All&pageName=home

The most hazardous component is the hardener (isocyanates, health rating 3). The color and clears are 2. But I do not understand how/if they can mix the hardener in the rattle can. I don't think they can without the paint curing up in the can. Talk to your supplier and ask if there mix includes the hardener. It may not.

Still you will want to use the charcoal respirator cartridges anyways.

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That link gave me a "session expired" error.
My understanding of how these spray cans work is that the hardener/catalyst is in a "cartridge" inside the can. The bottom of the can has a valve that you push to mix the hardener with the paint. You then have a limited amount of time to shoot before it cures inside the can. (24 hours?) Obviously, this will all be clarified at time of purchase.

jackman said:

I've actually been considering upgrading from my current half mask (3M 7503) to a full mask respirator like the 3M 6800. My hope is that it doesn't fog up like goggles and will allow me to wear my glasses and have a better fit.

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Will have to dig mine out to see what make/model it is - haven't had reason to use it in the past few years.

FredA said:

A little antiperspirant swiped under your eyes on your cheekbones will help stop your goggles from fogging.

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...Really?

...Really?

A little hint I picked up paint-balling.

FredA said:

...Really?

A little hint I picked up paint-balling.

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Wasn't sure if you were just messing with us. :wink:

AlnessW said:

That link gave me a "session expired" error.
My understanding of how these spray cans work is that the hardener/catalyst is in a "cartridge" inside the can. The bottom of the can has a valve that you push to mix the hardener with the paint. You then have a limited amount of time to shoot before it cures inside the can. (24 hours?) Obviously, this will all be clarified at time of purchase.


Will have to dig mine out to see what make/model it is - haven't had reason to use it in the past few years.


...Really?

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Really. You're going to wait till you pick up the paint to get the details?

This kind of paint system is not for amateurs. Personally as a chemist I'd leave it to the pros as the health hazards are real and that's why it costs several hundred dollars to have a pro shoot catalyzed auto paints. Full face and tyvek suit at a minimum with no exposed skin if you are crazy enough to try. A friend that does it for a living uses supplied air not a respirator... and spray in a carefully enclosed garage bay with filtered air flow......

It's a lot more dangerous than hamburger..... It can kill you. Hamburgers won't.

Bob

AlnessW said:

That link gave me a "session expired" error.
My understanding of how these spray cans work is that the hardener/catalyst is in a "cartridge" inside the can. The bottom of the can has a valve that you push to mix the hardener with the paint. You then have a limited amount of time to shoot before it cures inside the can. (24 hours?) Obviously, this will all be clarified at time of purchase.

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Yes I tried it same error. You can go to the home page and navigate down to the information page.
https://www.basfrefinish.com

If the hardener is included then yes that system can be very hazardous. Isocyanate aerosols are not to be trifled with. I started with full-face respirators, new cartridges, outside, wind to my back and in the evening after short painting sessions I could feel irritation in my throat and insomnia (nervous system effects).

Now I use supplied air, positive pressure hood and notice none of those affects. Hobby level safety equipment (Hobbyaire and hood) will set you back about $350 and will be worth every nickle if you need to use urethanes. If you're going to do this once then a professional spraying for $200 is a bargain. You won't risk your or your neighbors health and you will get a superior result to boot.

If you are determined to DIY, I would inquire if your supplier can mix up a decent acrylic enamel (AE).

bobkrech said:

Really. You're going to wait till you pick up the paint to get the details?

This kind of paint system is not for amateurs. Personally as a chemist I'd leave it to the pros as the health hazards are real and that's why it costs several hundred dollars to have a pro shoot catalyzed auto paints. Full face and tyvek suit at a minimum with no exposed skin if you are crazy enough to try. A friend that does it for a living uses supplied air not a respirator... and spray in a carefully enclosed garage bay with filtered air flow......

It's a lot more dangerous than hamburger..... It can kill you. Hamburgers won't.

Bob

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I meant the details on how the paint and catalyst are mixed.
I'm not shooting automotive paint - which is a FAR more hazardous/complicated process as I understand - but the urethane-based paint I will be using is still catalyzed. I just looked up the OSHA and MSDS info and a respirator/protection would be more than a good idea.

When I got the price estimate/paint info I certainly asked about hazards involved. I was told that a ventilated "booth" is not necessary.

jderimig said:

Yes I tried it same error. You can go to the home page and navigate down to the information page.
https://www.basfrefinish.com

If the hardener is included then yes that system can be very hazardous. Isocyanate aerosols are not to be trifled with. I started with full-face respirators, new cartridges, outside, wind to my back and in the evening after short painting sessions I could feel irritation in my throat and insomnia (nervous system effects).

Now I use supplied air, positive pressure hood and notice none of those affects. Hobby level safety equipment (Hobbyaire and hood) will set you back about $350 and will be worth every nickle if you need to use urethanes. If you're going to do this once then a professional spraying for $200 is a bargain. You won't risk your or your neighbors health and you will get a superior result to boot.

If you are determined to DIY, I would inquire if your supplier can mix up a decent acrylic enamel (AE).

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Found the OSHA/MSDS info - and thank you as well for the advice!

I figured if I want to do a really nice paint job, I'd better prep the airframe right.


Here we have all the different sections sanded with 80-grit sandpaper and wiped clean with a wet rag. The fin section was the trickiest part - took a lot of sanding and an amount of patience I didn't know I had.

AlnessW said:

I figured if I want to do a really nice paint job, I'd better prep the airframe right.

View attachment 169651
... took a lot of sanding and an amount of patience I didn't know I had.

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I call it the Zen of sanding. Once I get started I can't stop and go for hours.

jackman said:

I call it the Zen of sanding. Once I get started I can't stop and go for hours.

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The Zen of sanding... I like it!

Stopped by Industrial Finishes this afternoon to buy some paint!



From left to right we have - Blue (x2), silver (x1), adhesion promoter, epoxy primer, and the leftover mixed colors from each spray can.

The fellow at Industrial Finishes who has been helping me (AWESOME guy!) did indeed recommend protective equipment. I just dug out a charcoal respirator and a "bunny suit" to wear. Very stylish! Needless to say, all the guys at the paint counter got a big kick out of what I was buying the paint for. There was even a random customer there that is apparently friends with someone in our local club...it's a small world indeed!!

To control overspray among other things, I more than likely will set up an outdoor pseudo-paint booth for this job. If this rain doesn't ever quit then I may even rig it with heaters...

But for now I shall wait...

Oh my, Wilson, I hate to think what all that cost. I'm gonna' stick with my air brush and acrylics. And, oh yeah, I do wear a respirator and goggles when spraying with acrylic but I do forgo the bunny suit.

Good luck and I can't wait to see it.
G

jackman said:

Oh my, Wilson, I hate to think what all that cost. I'm gonna' stick with my air brush and acrylics. And, oh yeah, I do wear a respirator and goggles when spraying with acrylic but I do forgo the bunny suit.

Good luck and I can't wait to see it.
G

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If you must know...
$85 for the whole shebang. It was going to be around $100 but as soon as I told the clerk that we all do this all as a hobby, he gave me a discount!

The total bill for supplies was MUCH less than I thought it was going to be. I was fairly confident that in order to do this kind of finish I would have to spend $200+ on paint, which would be way out of my budget. I'm really looking forward to doing this!

How did you paint your L3 rocket, by the way? An airbrush? Oh yeah, I've got goggles to wear too.

Thanks for the kind words!

AlnessW said:

How did you paint your L3 rocket, by the way? An airbrush? Oh yeah, I've got goggles to wear too.

Thanks for the kind words!

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I got lucky with my L3 rocket. It got painted alongside my truck when it was in the body shop for a major repair. I had visited the shop a couple of years earlier and asked them if they'd paint a rocket for me to which they said they couldn't do anything for less than $500. I ended up in the same shop with the truck and the manager remembered. He told me to bring it in when the truck went to the spray booth so the rocket matches my truck. No charge.

jackman said:

I got lucky with my L3 rocket. It got painted alongside my truck when it was in the body shop for a major repair. I had visited the shop a couple of years earlier and asked them if they'd paint a rocket for me to which they said they couldn't do anything for less than $500. I ended up in the same shop with the truck and the manager remembered. He told me to bring it in when the truck went to the spray booth so the rocket matches my truck. No charge.

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Wow, that's very lucky indeed! I was actually wondering how you got it to match your truck. I too, couldn't find an auto-body that would bite for less than a few hundred dollars.

I practiced "folding laundry," er, I mean, packing my chutes today. I must say, I am VERY thankful I lengthened my main bay to 36"!! The 10' Rocketman chute fit very nicely in the tube, plenty loose, with more room to spare. Funny story, another "L3 buddy" of mine who is building an Extreme Wildman kept the 22" main bay and had real difficulties getting his main chute to deploy all the way during ground testing - guess who just ordered a 36" tube from Rocketry Warehouse? :wink:

I'm counting 22 days until launch... Oh boy. That said, time to take a serious look at what remaining things need to be done. In random order, we have:

1. Practice chute-packing - done.
2. Prep airframe for paint - done.
3. Prime and paint rocket.
4. Install motor retainer.
5. Ground test my charges.
6. Arrange pickup or delivery of a launch pad - being coordinated as we speak.
7. Name the rocket...

OK - maybe not as scary as I thought. Weather looks good and paint-friendly next week.

Today I got a 3/8" forged eyebolt to attach my drogue harness to. I then used a nut and a lockwasher to attach it firmly to my 75mm forward closure. While it is threaded on there very, very tightly, I did add a wire reinforcement to keep it from un-threading.

Yesterday evening I drove down to Salem to pick up David Holloway's tower to borrow for my rocket. He won't be at the May launch or NXRS this year, but was still willing to loan me his pad. Much appreciated! Of course, a (bearded!) David greeted me upon my arrival with "You're not a Salem-hater after all!"

It was great catching up with David having not seen him since Rocketober. He too, has some cool projects going on right now, but I'll let him disclose the details on those...


And here she is! Plenty sturdy for my rocket.

Updating my to-do list:
1. Practice chute-packing - done.
2. Prep airframe for paint - done.
3. Arrange pickup of a launch pad - done.
4. Prime and paint rocket - this weekend.
5. Install motor retainer.
6. Ground test my charges.
7. Name the rocket...

Cant wait to see this Wilson!! Keep us updated

AlnessW said:

7. Name the rocket...

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It will always be "FRED" to me.

Salvage-1 said:

Cant wait to see this Wilson!! Keep us updated

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Thank you Rob! Yep, will certainly keep you all posted.

chuck5395 said:

It will always be "FRED" to me.

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Of course... "Fabulous Rocket with Excellent Deployment?"

Been having a LOT of fun painting this weekend.


My "paint booth" consisting of my easy-up, a spray rack, tarp, and a work table. There is also a sheet hanging on the back "wall" to help keep paint off the easy-up.


Rocket sections prepped, masked, and ready to be sprayed. First up is 2 coats of "adhesion promoter." This stuff is really cool, it apparently etches into whatever you're spraying it on to for a very strong bond. (It is transparent.)


Next up is 2 coats of epoxy primer. As you can see, it goes on as a flat beige color.


After a 24-hour cure we are ready for the first color: metallic silver! Both the adhesion promoter and the primer readily accept paint, so no sanding is needed between coats. 2 coats of silver plus a light "control coat" (as it is apparently called) does the trick!


Another 24-hour cure and we mask the fins in preparation for the second color: deep and royal blue! (Or "outer-space blue" as the guy at Industrial Finishes called it. )


Dressed up in my painting attire!

My dad was around this time so he took a few action photos:





(continued below)

Tada!


Curing after 2 coats of blue.

I seriously cannot wait to put everything together and see what the finished product looks like!

Looking good Wilson.

chuck5395 said:

Looking good Wilson.

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Thanks! Just saw your signature - I'm counting down too! 12 days?

I'm so glad to see you in all the right safety gear Wilson. Nicely done!

jackman said:

I'm so glad to see you in all the right safety gear Wilson. Nicely done!

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Thank you Gary! As I quickly learned, I didn't want to be anywhere near this paint without safety gear. The fumes are very, very strong but you don't notice them ALL with a respirator on. Wow! Another interesting thing I learned at the paint shop when inquiring was that apparently latex gloves don't protect your skin from chemicals. It's the nitrile ones that you want, such as the kind I use when mixing epoxy. (I think I got a box of about 600 from Costco many, many years ago and I've used probably about half of them since.)

Edit: "I may be young, but no need to shorten my lifespan!!"