Epoxy Safety

I looked for a old thread on this subject, and couldn't find one, so it looks like this might be new ground. For many of us, epoxy is here to stay, for several important reasons. Epoxy is strong, can bond dissimilar materials, can create composites, you can use it to make both the molds and the parts, it's dimensionally stable (hardly shrinks), it gives you a predictable work time, you can modify its characteristics with additives, et cetera.

I think we're aware that all epoxies are not created equal, and that the chemistry of epoxies can vary greatly. Some of us have already examined the differences in strength and cost, but these variations in chemistry also produce a spectrum of risks to our health.

I currently own a batch of US Composites 635 resin and 556 hardener (which I intend to use up before switching to anything else). I emailed US Composites for the MSDS of both the resin and hardener, and they sent them to me. I also downloaded the MSDS for West Systems 105, 205, 206, and Aeropoxy 6209 (part A and B). It was enlightening.

There are those who believe that Aeropoxy is the safer product. Well, the documentation supports this belief, for the 6209 adhesive expoxy (but not the other Aeropoxy products, adhesive or laminating). In fact, reading the MSDS for most epoxies leads me to believe that anyone continuously exposing themselves to these products should consider, using them outside, in a well ventilated area, and/or with a respirator (with the appropriate cartridges, of course). It should go without saying that we should not get any of this stuff on our skin (and if we do, we should get it off quickly).

I invite everyone to obtain the MSDS for both the resin and the hardener of their "unlisted" epoxy system, and post them to this thread. Simply look for it (the MSDS) on the manufacturer's web site. If you can't find it, contact them by email. Perhaps we can start an MSDS "database" of sorts. I hope this exercise might encourage a greater number of us to use these epoxy products safely.

Attached are the MSDS(es) for your examination.

Aeropoxy:
View attachment 7APES6209A.pdf
View attachment 7APES6209B.pdf

West Systems:
View attachment MSDS105.pdf
View attachment MSDS205.pdf
View attachment MSDS206.pdf

US Composites:
View attachment 635 Thin Epoxy Resin.pdf
View attachment 2 to 1 Hardener.pdf

Having used many composite chemical brews as a young aerospace mechanic, I can tell you all my children turned out 'different'. Most of the damage didn't manifest itself until they were teenagers, then they were impossible to live with. I guess they were 'cured' when they grew up, and now I like them again.
Seriously, I have friends that were 'sensitized' early on and now can't work with some of this stuff at all without violent allergic reactions. Thanks for your post and timely reminders of the hazards we face in our pursuit of fun, excitement and relaxation. Very appreciated. Be safe!

I was HAZMAT Certified in the Military and when I got out I worked at a Cheese Factory as an assistant Lab Technician, so I had to be Certified in Food Production Chemicals, in order to sterilize the Processing Equipment, and be able to show others how to do it.
Chemical Safety is very Important.

A cautionary tale.

RoyAtl said:

A cautionary tale.

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Tragic story. Thx for sharing.

I recommend every one work outside or in a well ventilated area.

There's not much about health concerns, although I did find this paper from 1958. Jumping to the summary:
(4) Mixing and de-aerating should take place in well-ventilated chambers under cowling or in fume cupboards.
(7) For the cold (or air) cure process, work should be stored in well-ventilated chambers where restricted entry can be maintained.

So, gloves, working clean and ventilation are key. As inconvenient as it seems, I will look into "fresh air systems" as recommended by Grimracer.

Would a respirator be beneficial?

I already have too many health concerns and do not need more.

BLKKROW said:

Would a respirator be beneficial?

I already have too many health concerns and do not need more.

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A respirator can work very well when used properly, and not stressed beyond its limits.

A respirator functions by filtering the toxic air, so it works best when you have some form of ventilation, to keep the toxicity level down (and not overwhelm the filter). If the air circulation is too low, or the toxicity level is too high, then you probably should go with a fresh air system.

I used a 3M half-face respirator (about $30) when I painted my garage floor with epoxy paint and a urethane clear coat. Urethane is very toxic, so I sealed the door from the garage to my house. Before I started, I purchased a Harbor Freight 8” ventilator to get the air circulating, and then put on my 3M respirator. I smelled nothing. After completing the job, I removed the mask while standing a few yards from the outside entrance of my freshly coated garage. The urethane smell was very pungent, and the contrast impressed me (the respirator clearly did its job).

A respirator has to be properly sized. It also must “seal” to your face well (if you use a half-face mask, your face really needs to be clean shaven—I suppose if your face has some impressive features, you may also have difficulty developing a seal—I'm not trying to be funny, this can happen). You must use the proper unexpired filter cartridges. If you can smell anything once you put the respirator on, then you either don't have a proper seal, or you need new cartridges (most masks require two cartridges). If you're using the respirator with spray paint, you should also attach a particle filter. All this should be in the instructions, so make sure you read them carefully.

My first exposure to epoxy was in 1966, when I installed static-eliminators on the wings of C 141's as part of my pre-flight or post-flight inspections. Just mixed the two part epoxy with anything I had and spread it on the base of the eliminators and stuck them on the wings. I had it on my fingers and uniform before I knew it. I couldn't figure out why my fingers would peel off in chunks of skin, of course today I know why, but in 66 most of us on the flight line knew nothing of the hazards or exposure limits of epoxy.

JohnCoker said:

So, gloves, working clean and ventilation are key. As inconvenient as it seems, I will look into "fresh air systems" as recommended by Grimracer.

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I would love to have your problem! Part of the draw to your videos is the presentation of your well endowed and organized shop.

Thanks to your videos (and a couple of others on TRF), I'm going to take some CNC classes next week at the local TechShop (I live 15 minutes away). I'll soon join their little coop after I gain the right to use the ShopBot (and other CNC conveniences). Perhaps I'll make videos there, to make everyone on TRF believe that this 17,000 sq ft facility is really my personal stomping grounds.

:lol:

MarkH said:

The hardner for the aeropoxy laminating resin is pretty nasty stuff.
https://www.ptm-w.com/index.asp?pgid=212

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You are quite right! I'm going to edit my original post to reflect this.

fyrwrxz said:

Having used many composite chemical brews as a young aerospace mechanic, I can tell you all my children turned out 'different'. Most of the damage didn't manifest itself until they were teenagers, then they were impossible to live with. I guess they were 'cured' when they grew up, and now I like them again.
Seriously, I have friends that were 'sensitized' early on and now can't work with some of this stuff at all without violent allergic reactions. Thanks for your post and timely reminders of the hazards we face in our pursuit of fun, excitement and relaxation. Very appreciated. Be safe!

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And thank you... you ubiquitous green pirate (pardon, but I still don't know how to pronounce fyrwrxz) for both your genuinely amusing sense of humor, and your consistent encouragement.

himitsu said:

And thank you... you ubiquitous green pirate (pardon, but I still don't know how to pronounce fyrwrxz) for both your genuinely amusing sense of humor, and your consistent encouragement.

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fyrwrxz

fireworks

We really were somewhat ignorant of chemical hazards in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. I think the sharing of personal experience (and the stories of others) goes a long way toward making a convincing argument, to take reasonable steps to preserve our health.

bradycros said:

fyrwrxz

fireworks

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Ah! Said the blind man as he tripped over his hammer and saw.

Thanks!

himitsu said:

Ah! Said the blind man as he tripped over his hammer and saw.

Thanks!

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I would like to add to this so others can see the system i have in place.

For starters however I have spray booth in my bacement but my make up air is not heated. Therefor the shop area can get quite cold in the winter.

I CAN.. epoxy in my booth with my fresh air system on BUT.. can not turn off the booth untill the epoxy is cured. 12 hours of cold makeup air is not going to happen SO.. my epoxy work has to wait untill summer.

I do however use my Fresh air system for all my paint work (In the booth or outside when the weather is good). Be is a plastic model, boat, heli or rocket.. no matter it JUST WORKS.. The paint can finish fuming in allot less time the a good rocket building epoxy can.

I will try to get up some pics when i can.

Grimracer

I LOVE TO BUILD ANYTHING!

I recommend reading a number of MSDS on a product or class of product if possible. These last few years, too many of them seem to be written by lawyers. They used to be much more useful on average.

Gerald

G_T said:

I recommend reading a number of MSDS on a product or class of product if possible. These last few years, too many of them seem to be written by lawyers. They used to be much more useful on average.

Gerald

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Seems to me OSHA has made some changes to the MSDS system as of late and its now being called something new (SDS).. Our model shop here at work went though some training this last summer on that subject.

Never the less they are trying to make it easer to use and understand..

Grimracer

At Harvey Mudd we got an indoor spray-paint booth with particulate and carbon filters so that we'd be allowed to epoxy indoors. The room the rocket club resides in was once designed for indoor spray-painting purposes, with a ~4 minute (by my rough calculations) refresh time and an exhaust to the outdoors, but one of the fans broke and the flow reversed (evidently it was a reverse-forced-air system: a fan at each inlet), sucking fumes into other rooms, so we had to get the booth so we could be permitted to use VOC-emitting chemicals.

Grimracer said:

I will try to get up some pics when i can.

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It would be great to see your setup.

I always shudder when I see people using their bare fingers to smooth out an epoxy fillet. Especially when a 100 count box of nitrile gloves is only $8.00 at Harbor Freight.... and less when they are on sale (which they do, often).

Chemical exposure is a bad thing. In the early 1990's, I was constantly exposed to solvents when I was building racing motors. In 2004, I was diagnosed with cancer. It almost cost me my life. Had I known then what I know now, I would have better protected myself.

neond7 said:

I always shudder when I see people using their bare fingers to smooth out an epoxy fillet. Especially when a 100 count box of nitrile gloves is only $8.00 at Harbor Freight.... and less when they are on sale (which they do, often).

Chemical exposure is a bad thing. In the early 1990's, I was constantly exposed to solvents when I was building racing motors. In 2004, I was diagnosed with cancer. It almost cost me my life. Had I known then what I know now, I would have better protected myself.

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Actually, Harbor Freight has all kinds of gloves on sale right now, until November 30th.

Glad you're still with us.

Do latex gloves work?

blackbrandt said:

Do latex gloves work?

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Well they're better then nothing, but they don't block out some of the nasty stuff like nitrile does.

rocketgeek101 said:

Well they're better then nothing, but they don't block out some of the nasty stuff like nitrile does.

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+1 on that.

Nitrile gloves are:

More chemical resistant than latex (important)
More expensive than latex (but cheap, nonetheless)
Less flexible than latex (not as comfortable--but not bad)
More puncture resistant than latex
But not as tear resistant as latex (unfortunately--although this can be an advantage)

Given all the factors, I prefer nitrile because of the much improved chemical resistance.

I worked in the automotive field for years and we didn't use any protection. I never even thought about how bad some of the stuff we were exposed daily was. Then we found out about asbestos and the rest was history. I use an extremely scientific and calibrated system to protect against chemicals and exposure, here it is:
If it burns you, smells bad, chokes you, makes your eyes water, needs another chemical to get it off you. I USE PROTECTION. Not all gloves, glasses or respirators are created equal, they will tell you what they protect against, so use them accordingly. If you NEED to use it because of sensitivity it is usually too late ( I'm not saying to not use it) and the damage has already been caused. Prevent it and you will be happier and healthier.