TLP Gabriel III/AS Fins And Build Thread

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TopRamen

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Here's how you do it.

1. Get all your Wood laid out.



2. Measure everything and cut it to size. I then taped parts that were going to have to be identical to each other, so that as I used Sandpaper to shape them, they would all fit the same.



3.Then I had everything I needed to start gluing.



5. Glue Parts, from biggest to smallets ofcourse.




6. Start Papering Parts. I followed Paul Ts advice, and cut the Cardstocks in two. I tried doing it as a one Peice, but I did'nt have confidence that it would set right.



Fins!!!

 
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Now that I have the one complete Fin, which is all I need to make replicas out of something heavier, I have three Frames I will not be using. I suppose I'll dissassemble one and make Templates out of it to share here for everyone that gets frustrated with the lack of a Lifesize Templates for these Parts. That's kinda the main reason I got this Kit. I forget who, but a fellow Member here was getting frustrated with his TLP Gabriel. I mentioned how I'de get one too to make the Fins and Templates. I don't know about how to make them come out to the right Scal because I'm not Computer Literate. I guess I just Trace them onto Paper and Scan them, then post the File here somehow so that someone can just open it and print it??????
 
I did another one by using a Template that was not cut into two Peices first. It developed a Warp as it dried. I was able to pull off making these things, but I would do it differently and with much more precision if I had to do it over. I'm just glad I've already resigned myself to making them out of solid Wood.
I figured out the Template for the Wood, and that's what I set out to do, so Mission Accomplished on that front.
If I was going to do them again with Balsa, I would seal the Balsa with a Sealant before beginning, to help prevent warping. The funny thiong is, they are fun to play with. Building them was enjoyable even though they could be done 10 times nicer. Atleast I threw my best at it, and I learned a lot. I was already resigned to using Solids, but am glad I gave this a Shot.
 
I perhaps should never have done this!!! I have disassembled and re-assemble three of the Frames. I've re assembled them with Wood Glue and Epoxy!
This is Madness!!!! Madness I say!



Somehow I think that learning this Method of Wing Construction is going to prove fruitful, regardless of me not wanting to use it for Rockets.
Not everything needs to be Rocket Tough, like the Air Actuation Assemblies or Control Surfaces on an Air Boat. All they have to do is re-direct Air. They don't need to crash into the Ground at High Velocity, and if they do, you've got bigger worries.
I'll bet that TLP designed their Fins for the Gabriel III/AS like this to teach a Lesson in Structure.
 
On a much larger Build, this would be a most feasable form of construction for lessening Weight.
Now someone needs to do an Actual Size Gabriel III/AS.
 
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I went to the Hobby Store today and looked through their Balsa. I found this beautiful Specimen of 3/8"x 6" x 36", and only cost $7.08+Tax. This will give me enough that I can make mistakes or even have a bunch leftover for other stuff.

 
I'm going to fashion a set of Guides or a Jig to make the Angles with, so they will be the same throughout.
 
Once you give these fins a soakin' of super thin CA or finishin' epoxy they are real strong and light. I have beat the poop out of my Gabriel and the these upper fins are still going fine. Keeping the weight off this bird, especially the hind end, is important for stability. Any excess weight should be in the awesome high impulse motor your stickin' in the hind end. Rip it off the pad and say good bye to those PLO speed boats.
 
Once you give these fins a soakin' of super thin CA or finishin' epoxy they are real strong and light. I have beat the poop out of my Gabriel and the these upper fins are still going fine. Keeping the weight off this bird, especially the hind end, is important for stability. Any excess weight should be in the awesome high impulse motor your stickin' in the hind end. Rip it off the pad and say good bye to those PLO speed boats.

She's being built with a 29mm, so I'm not worried about weight. I figure out Stability later. I can always add Nose Weight.

ETA: PLO Speed Boats with be blown out of the Water with Fuel to spare!
 
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Guess I'll use this as my Build Thread too while I'm at it. Tonight I got my Baffle, which will do double duty as a Coupler finished. Also got the Retainer JB Welded to the MMT.

 
Time for the Paper Hat Nose Cone. Mind you, this "Hat", will end up filled with PC Superpoxy through the Hole I'm going to Drill in the Tip of the Nose Cone, and will then act as a Mold, to simply be sanded down during the Finishing Phase.

First off, I learned this "Tab Technique", from Paul T, AKA: "Sodmeister". ETA: I reviewed his TLP Gabriel Thread, and it seems he uses this on Tail Cones only. My Bad! I start by cutting the Template printed on the Cardstock on the Straight line, and don't include the provided Tab in my intial Cut. This will allow me to make a Cone with no "Overlapping Seam". I cut a separate peice of the Cardstack to make a "Tab", which I then glue to the Cone as such.:



Then I connect the ends, via some more Super Glue.:



Then I test fit it just to make sure it roughly fits.:



Satisfied that it will be good, I finish the Bottom off with an additional Peice of Cardstock.:



What about the sliver of a Gap at the Top where there is no Tab? I Paint the inside with CA first, using a peice of Toilet Tissue underneath that part, so that a tiny bit of the Glue goes through the Gap and absorbs into the Tissue. I do this Painting with a Q-Tip, so I can spin it around in the Top to get good coverage.:



I end up with this.:





Then, I use an Emery Board I made out of Balsa, CA and some 120grit to sand away the Excess cured Tissue, and at the same time square up the edges on the Bottom with said Emery Board, yeilding this.:





Finally, I paint the outside with more Super Glue, but this time I used a thinner Brand, so as it can absorb really well. now I have this.:



Anyway, hope you've all enjoyed seeing how I do a Pointy Paper Nose Cone Hat. This is my third one, as I did one on my TLP ALARM per the TLP Method, then studied Pauls Threads, and made one for practice before making this one. I really think this one turned out great, so I wanted to share my learning experience for those that like me, were at first intimidated by these Paper Nose Cones. They are actually pretty cool in my Book now.
since this is a 29mm Kitbash Updog Build, it will need Nose Weight anyhow, so the fact that I'm going to fill it with epoxy will only be a good thing. A Side Note on that, when using the PC Superpoxy, I filled the cone first before appying it for good, to avoid having any Air Bubbles or Voids that might occur. Then, after it's tacked onto the actual Cone, I'll fill the cone from the inside with more epoxy, which mechanically bonds the Epoxy coming up through the drilled hole to the Epoxy I add through the rear of the Cone. I'll have to cut the bottom off the Cone anyway to install a Wooden Bulkhead and my Schock Cord Attachment Hardware.
Well, hope this helps someone like me, who used to be afraid of Paper Parts.
 
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Started laying in the Epoxy. I'll get about half way up, just filling it, then when it is Time to attach it I'll gob in the last bit so that it squirts into the Nose Cone when I press it on. I do remember that part from my ALARM Kit. I'de hate to do it all at once and end up with Bubbles. I don't remember exactly how I did my ALARM Kit, so I don't want to rush it and screw it all up.

 
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I'm really hoping this works as well as you do. When I put the paper on my TLP kit, I had to use quite a bit of Bondo and sanding to smooth out the seam from the paper to the plastic. This would help eliminate that step.
 
I'm really hoping this works as well as you do. When I put the paper on my TLP kit, I had to use quite a bit of Bondo and sanding to smooth out the seam from the paper to the plastic. This would help eliminate that step.

Thanks. It worked out well on my TLP ALARM, but then I accidentally stabbed myself in the Thumb with the Point and decided it needed to be flattened as it had quite obviously become a Safety Hazard. On this one, it is blunt enough that it will not slice and tear through Skin,( I Hope!), so I'm going to leave it pointy. Plus, the TLP ALARM was not even a real "Scale Rocket", it was simply TLPs version of what the Prototype may have looked like. The real ALARM has a blunt nose cone, more fins and all sorts of other details which make it clearly not the ALARM TLP sells.
Not knocking TLP, as if I had to pick a favorite Company right now it would be them. This Rocket, the Gabriel, is pretty close in appearence to the only known Photo of the actual Missile, so I will try to make it look as close as possible to that. I'm going to use this build as the Template for some other Anti-Ship Missiles that I'de like to build which are similar in Appearance, but have many more Pictures available to work with.
 
well, went ahead and measured and marked the Cone.:



Drilled my hole and rough it with Sandpaper.:



And here she'll sit til' the day after tomorrow to Cure.:



And no, PC Superpoxy does not generate enough Heat to be a Threat to my Pyrodex or box of Visco Fuse.


I finally was able to roll it on my desk as well as Eyeballing it to get the tip perfect.
 
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But this really burns me up. In my book, "Postwar Air Weapons, 1945-Present", they feature an Illustration of the Gabriel III without a Tail Cone.
???????????
Does it, or does it not feature a Tail Cone?

 
And the Antenna is different too. This is going to drive me nuts. Perhaps this Illustrator was just one of those Artists that actually hates War, and does not wish to Glorify it's Tools. Now I have to wonder if there is a better Book. Certainly our Government has a Publication as Reference and Training Material for this Missile. Find it I will.
Yes, I know it is an Isreali Missile, but having been in the Army, I know that certain Branches of the Military have the most accurate,complete, and up to Date Information and complete Compendiums on other Countries Weapons.
I understand that there are 5+ Variations on this Missile, but I know which one I'm trying to build. Or do I........

The Quest for Knowledge continues!


And yes, I like to start Paragraphs or Sentences with the Word And. That's just the way I talk. People who know me in real life always tell me I talk like a Book or a Robot. Perhaps I watched way too much Dr. Who as a Child?
 
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Infact, if this is going to be one that I can't seem to make look like the Military Version, it might very well be fun to experiment with this Paint Theme, which would presumably be one used on the Test Version of this Missile. At least it would look realistic, and quite actually would probably look a lot more impressive and trackable in Flight. Maybe I could call in Stickershock to help me out, making it extra' cool and saving me from painting all those tiny Boxes. Gosh that looks Tedious but Challenging! I do love Rockets that are Red, White and Black, as they harken back to the Days of early U.S. Space Flights. If it was good enough for Von Braun, it's good enough for me. There will be another Gabriel Build in my Future, and if I'm just chasing after a Rocket someone else Built, then when I'm done, the Rocket won't truly be mine, will it?
I'm going with this! Plus, this Paint Schematic is more likely to be a representation of the real Missile. What this means, is that the Tail Cone likely did exist on this Missile, and that the Designer for TLP, Chuck I believe his name is, had a Job before being a Farmer, which likely dealt with Categorizing these Type of Weapons. After all, nearly every TLP Kit is a Military Missile, or Fantasy of one.

I hereby declare TLP my favorite Brand, and Vow to Build many of his Kits.

 
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Also, that Schematograph seems to reveal the Presence of Airfoilng on the Rear Fins possibly due to the Color Scheme, not the Profile of the Outside Edge on the Drawing, as the Drawing is clearly scaled down to be a Model.
I Guess that Research is a new fun Aspect to this Hobby. I'm loving it!!!:gavel::grin:

That said, you'de think it would be easier with the internet, but when it comes to Missiles, a lot of this Information was Classified and Hand Drawn, and then Obsolete well before the Internet got here. What a Shame. So much Modeling Data must have been lost.
If you look at some of the Craziest designs that do fly today, can you immagine the even Crazier ones that did'nt, but were lost to the Cold War Secrecy of the Golden Age of Rocketry???? They must have had some wild stuff.
 
I just discovered some new info that suggests that this Rocket too is nothing like the real thing in dimensions. Starting to just get Angry. no more Rocketry for me tonight.

ETA: I'de been awake for nearly 3 Days, and feeling tempermental and finally tired enough to go to sleep. I feel happy about the Rocket again today, after confirming with a Roll Test that I did indeed mount my Paper Hat perfectly.

Roll Test: Place the Nose Cone into the Body Tube and roll it on a flat Surface while maintaining a line of Sight on a level Plane with the Nose Cone. Zero Oscilation/Wobble in the Tip ensures it is concentric.
I should have done this before the Epoxy Cured, and will next time, but felt confident in my Measurements and Eyeballs.
The Nose is curing nicely, and feels hard as a Rock, but I'll let it cure for another day before I begin sanding it. I'm loving it.
 
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This is the Hsiung Feng, looks like a Gabriel?:



This one claims to be a Gabriel:



And this one is definitly a Gabriel, but apparently not the III.:




Very Frustrating.
 
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I E-mailed Stickershock about doing the red, white and black Checker Pattern Decals. Might aswell get some nice Vinyl for it to save myself the Headache of Masking and Painting all those tiny Squares. I only have an Inkjet Printer, so Decals I make obviously lack the quality of Vinyl. He Messaged me back about doing a Wrap for it, not just the Checkers, so that would be nice. We'll see how this Idea goes.
Now, I can't wait til' Friday to order my Tail Cone from Mad Cow so I can put the Guts in this thing. Right now all I can work on is the forward set of Fins and the Nose Cone. I joined the Body Tubes together today.
I'm really hoping the Vinyl works out so that I don't have to paint it save for the Nose Cone and Tail Cone, and Primer ofcourse. Then I can focus on Details.
 
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Dang it! I got a good nights rest last night, so I'll be up all night tonight, and wanted to do my Fins, but I suffered some bad stuff to my right Hand a ways back and when my Arthritis acts up, that's the first thing to start killin' me. I took some Aspirin but they're not doing a lick of good and it's gettin' worse. It even hurts to Type this. Can't use my Belt Sander inside because of the Dust. Hand Sanding is where it's at in the Winter. Maybe I'll have to get Macguyvering and turn my Vacuum Cleaner into a Dust collector. What a PIA!
$%#@**&^*!!!!!
 
Well, I've been talking with Mark from Stickershock and have decided to have him make my Decals for me. He takes Paypal, but I asked if I could mail him a Money Order since I don't have a Paypal Account and he says that's fine. I'm in no hurry, so we'll do it that way.
 
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