Red over Gray? (Pictures Posted)

I'm finishing up my SUMO and I'm about ready to paint it. Originally I was going to spray it orange, but decided to do a stock paint job and stay with the recommended red color scheme. My question is this.

Have any of you sprayed red over gray primer and if so how did it turn out? I'm assuming it was probably darker than what you wanted. I'm using Duplicolor HBP gray. It's more like a light gray. I like the primer because it wet sands really nice and the first top coat of paint always looks great.

I was considering just getting some white sandable primer and trying to sand it it smooth, but my concerns are sanding through exposing the gray underneath and having to start over. Also Duplicolor as far as I know doesn't make a HBP in white. Not only that most of the rocket is gray right now so I wouldn't have to go out and buy much more primer and paint to finish it.

Put on a couple good coats of HBP wet sand until it's glass smooth without going through and lay down some red.

Thoughts or concerns? Feed back is appreciated.

Thanks !!!

I often get concerned about that too, so I usually apply a light coat of a good sealing primer (just one coat) over the gray primer (after I sand most of the gray primer off). I then apply flat white (with a light sanding in between each coat) until I get a consistent base coat of white. Flat white seems to contain more in the way of white solids than any primer (and it's usually cheaper). Then I apply whatever bright color desired. Note: you must use flat white to back most florescent colors, but I find that it brings out non florescent colors, too. Of course, don't mix up your paint systems (unless you've tested it out).

If you do it this way, you'll know to stop sanding once you get down to the flat white.

In my experience if you want the closest to the true color of the paint you are using it is always better to use a white primer. The darker your primer the darker the shade of your color is the way it seems to work out for me. Especially with florescents

Thanks guys...

I know what you are talking about with white primer. That's how I usually paint my rockets, but just wanted to know if you ever sprayed over gray primer.

Yes, It will likely come out a slightly darker shade of whichever color you are working with.

maxvelocity said:

Yes, It will likely come out a slightly darker shade of whichever color you are working with.

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Thanks!

Of course I think all brands and maybe even colors of the same brand react differently. I would guess that better paints would cover better and not be darkened by the color they are applied over. But I will say I try to NOT paint my rockets as much as possible to avoid the whole situation... LOL

I always use a sandable gray primer, then a gloss white undercoat, for all but dark final colors. Haven't found a sandable white primer I like yet...

What about Rustoleum Ultra 2x ? I know they make a gray primer...I'm sure they would have a white primer too

Dan, I'll just speak from experience. Grey primer is a great neutral color, Almost anything goes over it and does not change color--White primer does lighten the hue of the color, and black will darken it. Given enough coats of paint the color will ---for the most part ---come out the same. One trick on red paint, use a red oxide primer, seems to help make the paint pop. Typically, my rule of thumb is---white prime for --white up through orange--grey for anything else---the exception being deep blues---always black--and of course, red over red. One more thing--you can wet/moist sand almost any paint/primer so not to worry about finding a sandable primer---metallics, well that's a conversation for another day/week/month!!---Bill

hornet driver said:

Dan, I'll just speak from experience. Grey primer is a great neutral color, Almost anything goes over it and does not change color--White primer does lighten the hue of the color, and black will darken it. Given enough coats of paint the color will ---for the most part ---come out the same. One trick on red paint, use a red oxide primer, seems to help make the paint pop. Typically, my rule of thumb is---white prime for --white up through orange--grey for anything else---the exception being deep blues---always black--and of course, red over red. One more thing--you can wet/moist sand almost any paint/primer so not to worry about finding a sandable primer---metallics, well that's a conversation for another day/week/month!!---Bill

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Thanks Bill - Right now the rocket has a primer guide coat of gray over the red primer (Duplicolor primer is what I'm using). It isn't completely gray. I feel the gray covers nicely and I can wet sand it and apply the red paint over it to get a better finish. I'll paint the fins white before I lay on the yellow. If I go with the gray I won't have to buy more primer. I'll use up what I have to finish the rocket. I sprayed a BT-80 primer gray and I'm going to wet sand it and come back over it with red and see how it looks first.

I had issues in this this red paint before, but for whatever reason it clouded and then faded away...like you said I can always wet sand it too, but sometimes for whatever reason I feel the cloudiness might have to do with spraying over white paint? I know it sounds off the wall, but I had the royal blue do the same thing when I painted over white, but when I sanded finish and re-applied primer and then painted the royal blue over the primer I never had any issues with the finish and it came out perfect.

I also like the Rustoleum 2x Ultra paints. They really work nice and cover well, but I'm tempted to use Duplicolor because I can adjust the fan spray, which will enable me to spray vertical having the body mounted up the same way.

As you can see another can of gray and I should have it covered. Wet sand until it's like glass and laid down a few coats of red and let it flow out real nice. On the fins I'll get some white paint down before I use the yellow.

Just a point i need clarification on. Are you guys talking about wet sanding flat grey primer on a cardboard tube? And if so doesn't that let water into the cardboard? i am not assuming you are getting the "tube " soaking wet, but i have never wet sanded anything porous before (yes most things are porous, i mean like cardboard).

Damp sanding more or less

what grit are you using?

800-1000

any issues with clogging using that grit?

AfterBurners said:

I had issues in this this red paint before, but for whatever reason it clouded and then faded away...like you said I can always wet sand it too, but sometimes for whatever reason I feel the cloudiness might have to do with spraying over white paint? I know it sounds off the wall, but I had the royal blue do the same thing when I painted over white, but when I sanded finish and re-applied primer and then painted the royal blue over the primer I never had any issues with the finish and it came out perfect.

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The cloudiness sounds like paint blushing which is caused by humidity. It's most common with fast reducers, fast activators, and not enough flash time between coats. You can make it go away by polishing or just waiting (sometimes a really long time).

dward said:

The cloudiness sounds like paint blushing which is caused by humidity. It's most common with fast reducers, fast activators, and not enough flash time between coats. You can make it go away by polishing or just waiting (sometimes a really long time).

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The waiting works best. Sometimes I would lightly wet sand it, but the waiting it seems to clear up after a couple days

No issues at all. I keep a small container of water next to me to rinse the sand paper and like I said I don't really wet the body that much. I don't soak it. The get the paper wet and shake it and then start with the process.

They sure do, available at Home Depots - #

AfterBurners said:

What about Rustoleum Ultra 2x ? I know they make a gray primer...I'm sure they would have a white primer too

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They sure do - #249058 Flat White Primer, available at Home Depot for sure and, I think, Lowes.

Winston said:

They sure do, available at Home Depots - #They sure do - #249058 Flat White Primer, available at Home Depot for sure and, I think, Lowes.

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Pretty good stuff too. I bought a number of cans of white (both primer and paint) and after a number of minoe paint projects, I have plenty left over. Rustoleum has good quality as well.

I haven't had issues using Red Duplicolor paint over over the grey filler primer. The only time I use a white primer basecoat is under flourescent colors, white, yellow, and other light colors. A red, like on the Red Max will cover over the grey filler primer without issue.

When using lacquer, the blushing will disappear under lacquer clearcoat. With enamels, the milkyness goes away in about 10 minutes.

The biggest problem most people run into is mixing paint systems. For instance duplicolor lacquer and rustolium without checking to make sure they are the same base. You can put enamel over lacquer all day, but putting lacquer over enamel is an entirely different animal. It can be done, but you really have to know what your doing or be very lucky.

dpower said:

I always use a sandable gray primer, then a gloss white undercoat, for all but dark final colors. Haven't found a sandable white primer I like yet...

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Im with dpower on this one...

So I sprayed the rocket with Duplicolor Cherry Red. The pictures shown are after about (3) coats of the color. I haven't wet sanded the finish or applied a clear coat, but I did go out and buy a can of Duplicolor.



Undecided from here which way I want to go. I might call it done and put on the decals? What do you guys think?

Also can you tell me if I used gray primer underneath or did I paint the rocket gloss white or used a white primer?

Take a few moments and next time I check the thread I'll reveal what I used.



If I wanted to continue and put a really nice finish on I would normally wet sand with say 800-1000 and then put a clear coat over the finish once I had it completely dull. Another option would be to go even further use 1500-2000 and buff / rub out the finish by hand. Afterward I would wax and then apply the decals, but I know the kind of abuse that rockets take so maybe I'll call it done.

AfterBurners said:

Also can you tell me if I used gray primer underneath or did I paint the rocket gloss white or used a white primer?

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On a serious note, don't use gloss white as an undercoat. If you want to conserve on white primer, you can usually use flat white. Gloss white will sometimes react badly should another top coat become applied.

Good tip on the Gloss White. I never knew that.

Anyway I used Duplicolor Gray HBP. Wet sanded until smooth and was careful not to sand through the primer. I had about two good coats on before wet sanding. I wiped it down and waited a day before painting the Cherry Red.

AfterBurners said:

Anyway I used Duplicolor Gray HBP. Wet sanded until smooth and was careful not to sand through the primer. I had about two good coats on before wet sanding. I wiped it down and waited a day before painting the Cherry Red.

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AfterBurners,

I just realized that my joke may have been misunderstood, and that you might have interpreted my response as poking fun at your work. I was really just trying to be funny (and my sense of humor has gotten me into trouble before--I need to do a better job of proofing my jokes). If that's the case, I'm sorry.

BTW, your finish came out great! And nope, I coudn't tell what you did for the undercoat.

In fact, I just edited the joke out...

himitsu said:

In fact, I just edited the joke out...

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No worries...I didn't take it that way. I like to joke around too!!:lol::lol::lol: