Who makes thier own igniters?

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kpklein

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I am curious as to what some might make their igniters from and the pyrogen they use for AP motors, G and larger. I have been using leftover AP propellant from making motors, some igniter formulas have similar ingredients to propellants and some are made from a slurry of oxidizer and various fuels and metals. I some times have a little trouble with the ignition, sometimes it will start with a pop then Pffffft......ffffft....then ignite.

Another matter is the latest propellant batches using R45M are cured with a diferent Mondur curative, E-744, than I used to use and takes twice the amount to do the job (20%), maybe that is affecting the ignition properties.
 
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I've made my own for years, using dip made by Jim Ball of Yellowjacket Launch Systems. Unfortunately, Jim is no longer in business.

-Kevin
 
Not exactly making your own, but I've been quite happy with the magnelite kits.
 
I make my own, so far I have had pretty good luck as long as the batteries are good and charged, i'm currently looking into a new hotter dip.


TA
 
Bought a Quickburst kit...haven't delved into it yet though...
I usually buy pre-made Big Uns and Little Uns from Wildman which are reasonably priced and work very well...
 
troj said:
I've made my own for years, using dip made by Jim Ball of Yellowjacket Launch Systems. Unfortunately, Jim is no longer in business.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

Kevin,

Do you know the ingredients? I love this mixture. I just have not been able to figure out the mixture. I use Magnelite also.
 
Made a couple once. The pyrogen I used dries to be rather flexible; could make for a topic of conversation 'round the easy-up at a launch as it's fun to bend the dipped end around in a curve and none of it falls off. Nichrome gets it going, wire wrap tool, no solder.

N
 
cwbullet said:
Do you know the ingredients? I love this mixture. I just have not been able to figure out the mixture. I use Magnelite also.
Click to expand...

I don't. Though I should ask Jim, and see if he still has it and would share.

I suspect I know two of the ingredients, but I'm not certain.

-Kevin
 
karlbaum said:
This page explains basically how I make my igniters https://www.jacobsrocketry.com/aer/homemade_wire-wound_igniters.htm I use Pyrodex but grind it into a fine powder. I use ping pong balls and acetone for the binder.
Click to expand...

I have used his lead construction for about a decade now, as recently as an hour ago to prepare for this weekend! I don't fold over the exposed copper when I am done, however. Also, I use Nichrome wire in place of copper.

Regarding his pyrogen, I only use his ping pong ball melting tip. Years ago I bought nitrocellulose from Firefox for this purpose, but it's a powder of some sort and I haven't really put much thought into using it. In a box it remains, somewhere...all I do is take the ping pong slurry and add some magnesium and aluminum powders. Not an exact science, by any means!

I have found that as long as the LCO holds down the button long enough to get the Nichrome hot, that igniter will fire just about anything!
 
patelldp said:
Years ago I bought nitrocellulose from Firefox for this purpose, but it's a powder of some sort and I haven't really put much thought into using it. In a box it remains, somewhere...
Click to expand...

Dan,

Seriously - find it. If not properly stored, NC will deteriorate, and can spontaneously ignite or, in the worst case, act as a low-order explosive.

If you purchased it as a powder, it is probably packed in water, which is good. However, the stuff has a shelf life, and if the packaging was poorly sealed or damaged in any way, allowing the NC to dry out, you could have problems.

Kevin O
 
patelldp said:
I have used his lead construction for about a decade now, as recently as an hour ago to prepare for this weekend! I don't fold over the exposed copper when I am done, however. Also, I use Nichrome wire in place of copper.

Regarding his pyrogen, I only use his ping pong ball melting tip. Years ago I bought nitrocellulose from Firefox for this purpose, but it's a powder of some sort and I haven't really put much thought into using it. In a box it remains, somewhere...all I do is take the ping pong slurry and add some magnesium and aluminum powders. Not an exact science, by any means!

I have found that as long as the LCO holds down the button long enough to get the Nichrome hot, that igniter will fire just about anything!
Click to expand...

Yes, I do not use copper. I Use 34 ga nichrome for igniters and 40ga nichrome for ematches. 28ga nichrome works well for igniters too.
 
karlbaum said:
Yes, I do not use copper. I Use 34 ga nichrome for igniters and 40ga nichrome for ematches. 28ga nichrome works well for igniters too.
Click to expand...

Just checked my spool, I use 34 ga nichrome. I also quadruple it up as opposed to using a single strand. Maybe I will make some with a single strand and see how they perform.
 
kpklein said:
I am curious as to what some might make their igniters from and the pyrogen they use for AP motors, G and larger.
Click to expand...

MTV usually in pellet form of various sizes depending on motor free volume. Never dipped it onto a match, but it would be interesting to try.
 
troj said:
I don't. Though I should ask Jim, and see if he still has it and would share.

I suspect I know two of the ingredients, but I'm not certain.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

I would appreciate that. I love to try new pyrogens.
 
butalane said:
MTV usually in pellet form of various sizes depending on motor free volume. Never dipped it onto a match, but it would be interesting to try.
Click to expand...

Wow. Never heard of MTV before (the pyrolant, not related to music videos). Had to look it up.

Hmmmm ... It looks like it has a much higher ignition temp than BP, but almost 7 times the thermal output once it's going.

Greg

PS. Looks like something professionals might use in their launch vehicles.
 
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I will start a thread tonight in the reasearch area on igniter pyrogens. I may have a few to share.
 
The moderators gave me their blessings to post links (not the actual formulas) to pyrogens and other topics. A couple of months ago I posted a link to some metal oxide pyrotechnic mixtures. Sadly, I don't have the link URL, just the file I downloaded. Do a search on the https://dtic.mil/dtic/ site. Lots of good stuff there.
 
sooner.boomer said:
"A Survey of Combustible Metals Thermites and Intermetallics for Pyrotechnic Applications"
​
Click to expand...
F&G is /the/ seminal thermite and intermetallic paper. Definitely a good reference.

I managed to sneak one in myself, with the help of Darren Wright. Together with his friend Gus, they made thermites popular for hobby motor ignition. We looked and there wasn't much published on it, so I pitched it to my advisor and it all worked out. Here's the paper.

Any ignition system must be carefully sized based on energy output and gas production. Check out, e.g., the pellet ignition system in CTI motors—they've thought that one through carefully, and the results speak for themselves.
 
daveyfire said:
... Any ignition system must be carefully sized based on energy output and gas production...
Click to expand...

And that there is the trick.

You can have too much or too little of an igniter. In a perfect world, the system should be matched to a specific motor with a specific voltage and current. As you know, the hobby world is not as constrained as the professional world, so our igniters need to work in a larger range of conditions. So while our (i.e., hobby) igniters will never be quite optimized, we should at least try to get them near the sweet spot.

Greg
 
butalane said:
MTV usually in pellet form of various sizes depending on motor free volume. Never dipped it onto a match, but it would be interesting to try.
Click to expand...

Ryan 'it' works well as an igniter with a bit of reformulation. A big 2 stage at XPRS (not JamesG) was having ignition issues using thermite. I went out with some 'supplies' and replaced the igniters in both the booster and sustainer with igniters and pellets. The sustainer igniter had much smaller nichrome then the booster. Instant on.

Tony
 
Question for any of the thread participants: Is an LEUP required to engage in this activity or purchase and store the material necessary to make igniters ?
 

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