Ejection wadding or Dog Barf or Recovery Wadding question

About 18 months ago, after some experimenting, I bought a package of Ejection wadding (supposedly fire proofed tissues) from a distance hardware store/hobby dept.

The package was foil, and about the size of a postcard. When I lifted the adheasive tab to reveal the tissues below, it became obvious that this was a dispenser feature, allowing just one to be removed at a time. However, I was extremely surprised that the foil pouch did not contain any moisture. I had expected this to be similar to a "wet ones" package.

So the question is, was it originally wet and just dried out?
Do these types of tissues come dry? Am I supposed to add water to wet them or moisten them?
As the package is resealable, do they "go bad", either from moisture or something else?

As I recall, I used one, maybe a second sheet on the second launch, and the fin broke off, ending the adventure for the day. And so, I never touched them again.

I used only one per rocket... A8-3 engine and a B6-4 as I recall. Should I be using more than one tissue to wad and protect the plastic parachute?

I have a small quantity of Dog barf insulation available to me, as an alternative. With a 1-inch tube, how tightly should these "wads" be packed in?

A quick answer would be appreciated. I want to go launch my second and newest rocket today.

I am not familiar with the product you bought, but I'll give you a quick answer. All the wadding I have ever seen was dry, but I have never seen any packaged in foil. Dog barf is fine and cheap. How much wadding you use is determined by the size of the body tube the chute is in, not the motor you fly. I usually put about 1 1/2 diameters of the body tube's worth (loosely packed) of wadding in the model. Your kit instructions probably tell you how about prepping for flight.

Don

Thanks.
I've been looking for that foil/plastic package of dry tissues, and cannot find them. I hope the wife hasn't thrown them out, thinking the were lens cleaning tissues or some sort of sewing lining! (Gulp!)

So, think I'm left with Dog Barf, and probably have enough for three flights.

The rocket is ready, the A8-3 is loaded for a shorter initial flight, and then two B6-4 engines await. I have separate igniters that came with each engine pack, so I'm ready, but not inserted yet.

I've checked the controller and found that I had wisely removed the batteries from it when last I used it, and that it will take four AA alkaline batteries, which I found new in the package! Horray! However, when inserting them into the black controller/launch pack, I find that I get no ready light, either with the "key" in or out, and when clipping the clips together, (dead short) still nothing. I don't recall if I've ever seen the light lit, or if I have to have some resistance like an igniter between the clips to indicate anything. I don't dare place an ingiter in the clips for fear that I'll have a hot circuit and burn it before I load the igniter into the engine (Last step safety practice here!)

So, my batteries could be low, my light bulb could be broke, the circuit might not yet be ready, or, a break in the cabling. (The controller looks very cheaply produced, but adequate.) I know I launched before with a separate set of wires and the 6 volt or 9 volt battery from the camping lantern, so I'm sure if I take that along, I can get some sort of spark, enough to ignite a circuit.

One last question. I have used this stand once before, and the blast shield shows considerable burn/scorch mark on it. Do these things wear out? For my first ever launch, I used a rod from a yard sale lawn sign and an aluminum lid from the can of peanuts, and after the launch, there was an ugly hole BURNED THROUGH the lid. Never used that lid again!

With my wife as camera man, we sought out an unused portion of the large municipal park near our house. (I've launched from there before.)
The first attempt to launch from the kit control box failed. No light, no spark, no good. Fortunately, I had brought the 9 volts camp lantern and a secondary, shorter set of wires and alligator clamps, and they worked.
At 3:40 p.m. despite some steady breezes blowing from the SW 14 gusts to 20, the IRIS launched with an A8-3 and Dog Barf wadding. The chute deployed a little later than i would have liked, but it came down just fine.:fly:

I reloaded, selected one of my two remaining B6-4 and repacked the chute. It was tangled and the shrouds were spiraling due to the breeze. I attempted to hand unwrap them, but couldn't keep up with the wind. So, I held the chute and the body of the rocket and swung the nose cone about like a jump rope to unwrap the lines. It worked well but on the final swing, the nose cone impacted the neck of the body where it should seat, and a "smile gash" was dented into the balsa cone! Who knew this thing would dent?:jaw:

Despite the damage, the rocket looked intact, so I loaded the chute, dog barf and set up the igniter and launched once again at 3:50 p.m. This time it went much higher and more impressive, and set off the charge at the top of the flight. The drift was considerable, and I went walking quite a ways to retrieve it. Along the way, I discovered a couple of golf balls, and then realized I was considerably down range of a driving range with NO ONE on it but us. I looked around and saw someone walking toward my wife. I got the rocket and returned to our launch pad but the person was gone.

My wife informed me that we had been kicked out because it's the local university's driving range. (I had one final engine in my pocket and dearly wanted to launch once more, but didn't.)
My wife had promised who ever had walked up that we would retrieve the rocket and leave, so we did. :handshake:

I'm annoyed, because NOBODY was using that field. There are NO signs and we were not hurting anything. I didn't even pick up any golf balls, so I don't know what their complaint might be. There was another family or two at the adjacent family farming land in the park who turned to watch the missile launch with great delight, and I'm sorry that we didn't get a chance to speak to them. Their young kids were impressed with the WIZZ and the sight of the colorful rocket against the clear blue sky. But no, we were kicked out. Great PR on the part of the clerk.:surprised:

I'm trying to brainstorm where to launch from one more time. Perhaps after the range closes I'll go to the family farming fields, or else across town at the deserted socker field. It's my last engine and I'd like to repair the gash to see how that goes. I'm certain to get it done in the next 3 hours before sunset.

How do others cope with finding a launch field? There are NONE near me, and I'm not near any airport.

Nice "Estes Dent" you have there... so called because so many Estes rockets get them-- the shock cords are WAY too short. Replace the rubber band with sewing elastic from Walmart (or wherever) that is about twice as long and you'll be in the ballpark...

Later! OL JR

PS. there are a number of threads here on the forum about wadding alternatives...

So there's a name for this, huh?:eyepop:
Maybe that's where it came from. I didn't think I had hit anything hard enough to cause it, but who knows?

Thanks for all your help, Stawwalker. Love your dog-rocket too!

Kirk G said:

How do others cope with finding a launch field? There are NONE near me, and I'm not near any airport.

Click to expand...

The best option is to join a nearby rocketry club. Not only do you get to use their big field but it's also a great way to meet lots of other people who share your interest in rocketry. From a quick search it looks like your nearest NAR rocketry club is WVSOAR. They do their launches at Rio Grande, OH, which is less than one hour from Athens. Here is their Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/WVSOAR/124043652730

Great idea, Nathan.
Only problem is that that WVSOAR website has not been updated since 2011...it appears two years out of date. But I agree they appear to be closest, and if I can hear from someone who runs it to confirm a date, I'd like to turn out for it. I got two workable low power rockets now and need an outlet for this interest.

Edit: It appears someone attempted to start a new WVSOAR 564 facebook page multiple times. Unfortunately, the NAR page still points to the dead one. Here's the live one:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/169186229849873/

Hey guys, go out and fix your links! Make sure NAR has your current, working club page. We can't afford to miss any referals or young kids trying to learn more about us!

Nathan said:

The best option is to join a nearby rocketry club. Not only do you get to use their big field but it's also a great way to meet lots of other people who share your interest in rocketry. From a quick search it looks like your nearest NAR rocketry club is WVSOAR. They do their launches at Rio Grande, OH, which is less than one hour from Athens. Here is their Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/WVSOAR/124043652730

Click to expand...

Kirk G said:

So there's a name for this, huh?:eyepop:
Maybe that's where it came from. I didn't think I had hit anything hard enough to cause it, but who knows?

Thanks for all your help, Stawwalker. Love your dog-rocket too!

Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about your launch site problems... lets just say there's a lot of A-holes in the world nowdays...

If you have some farm fields nearby, especially if they were enjoying the launch, the best thing you could do is talk to the landowners and see if you could get permission to launch from their land... then the stupid driving range people can just pound sand because they can't stop you from launching from adjacent fields (model rockets anyway). We have a couple clubs flying off both our farms at Needville and at Shiner.

Never hurts to ask-- just be friendly and smart/intelligent in your discussion, and present yourself as safe and responsible...

Later and good luck! OL JR

Check with the folks at the Bob Evans Farm. Seems like I read some where that a club used to launch there (cant find it now).... They may allow it as long as you clean up after yourself.

Here is the current WV SOAR facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/groups/169186229849873/

This past weekends launch was cancelled due to rain, it is re-scheduled for this Sat Oct 26.

Kirk G said:

Thanks.

The rocket is ready, the A8-3 is loaded for a shorter initial flight,

One last question. I have used this stand once before, and the blast shield shows considerable burn/scorch mark on it. Do these things wear out? For my first ever launch, I used a rod from a yard sale lawn sign and an aluminum lid from the can of peanuts, and after the launch, there was an ugly hole BURNED THROUGH the lid. Never used that lid again!View attachment 150140

Click to expand...

Kirk,
I can't speak for mid or high power, but for LPR rockets not optimal to load your wadding and chute the night before the flight. The stuff tends to "settle" and may get stuck and not deploy. Then you can add "lawn dart" to your "Estes Dent" in the rocketry vocabulary. Ideally you should load your wadding and chute/streamer just before you launch.

I've been using the same plate off a Porta Pad system for years for Mini (e.g. A10-3T) engines thru D without any problems. Gets gunky but no worse for wear.

Always good to know the rules for whatever field you are launching from. Don't assume the worse of a landowner or groundskeeper if they don't want you using their field. It is possible they have insurance issues or have had other unannounced "guests" than yourself that have been less than commendable---- so they may have (or think they have) good reasons for denying you permission to launch. Obviously never LAUNCH on private land without permission, that's just asking for trouble.

Good luck on your future flights.

Tom

Kirk G said:

Thanks.
I've been looking for that foil/plastic package of dry tissues, and cannot find them. I hope the wife hasn't thrown them out, thinking the were lens cleaning tissues or some sort of sewing lining! (Gulp!)

So, think I'm left with Dog Barf, and probably have enough for three flights.

The rocket is ready, the A8-3 is loaded for a shorter initial flight, and then two B6-4 engines await. I have separate igniters that came with each engine pack, so I'm ready, but not inserted yet.

I've checked the controller and found that I had wisely removed the batteries from it when last I used it, and that it will take four AA alkaline batteries, which I found new in the package! Horray! However, when inserting them into the black controller/launch pack, I find that I get no ready light, either with the "key" in or out, and when clipping the clips together, (dead short) still nothing. I don't recall if I've ever seen the light lit, or if I have to have some resistance like an igniter between the clips to indicate anything. I don't dare place an ingiter in the clips for fear that I'll have a hot circuit and burn it before I load the igniter into the engine (Last step safety practice here!)

So, my batteries could be low, my light bulb could be broke, the circuit might not yet be ready, or, a break in the cabling. (The controller looks very cheaply produced, but adequate.) I know I launched before with a separate set of wires and the 6 volt or 9 volt battery from the camping lantern, so I'm sure if I take that along, I can get some sort of spark, enough to ignite a circuit.

One last question. I have used this stand once before, and the blast shield shows considerable burn/scorch mark on it. Do these things wear out? For my first ever launch, I used a rod from a yard sale lawn sign and an aluminum lid from the can of peanuts, and after the launch, there was an ugly hole BURNED THROUGH the lid. Never used that lid again!View attachment 150140

Click to expand...

Aluminum simply can't stand up to the heat... melting point is WAY too low. Don't worry about steel deflectors-- they'll get a burn mark but will last for years unless the rocket hangs up on the rod and sticks and won't come off after the motor lights... then if it's in close proximity to the blast deflector it CAN burn a hole through it, even with a steel deflector...

There's an old story that some salesman years ago went to the Estes plant and tried to sell them on using his "high temperature" steel alloy for their blast deflectors... he taped a C model rocket motor to a stick and lit it and held it close to a sample of his "high temp" steel plate-- it burned a hole straight through it...

Basically a rocket motor is like a cutting torch-- the exhaust temperature is extremely high, and the temperature is high enough at the burning propellant face to melt any embedded sand or clay in the motor propellant grain into a glasslike slag and eject it from the motor nozzle... but everything cools substantially with expansion and distance and a bit of time...

Later! OL JR

Some ceramic tile is ok for blast deflector. And it's pretty cheap to pick up a tile or two.

You can glue (like epoxy) the tile onto an aluminum base and it should last a long time.

Greg

A metal cover plate for a 4"x4" electrical box from Home Depot or Lowe's for a blast deflector can be had for pennies and will last forever on A through D's. Some have a hole in the middle, some have a hole in the corner (which works fine as it is offset, like the rocket is and hangs down at an angle).

Coffee-can lids (1-pound cans) can work well as blast deflectors too, although you have to be careful about sharp edges (use a no-sharp-edge can opener if you have one).

As far as wadding is concerned, dog barf as described above will work well. You can check by your local home-improvement store and see if they have any store-damaged or ripped-open bags. They will usually sell them pretty cheap and you will probably be set for wadding for life.

Another source of wadding is flame resistant crepe paper or flame resistant gift-packing tissue paper, both available fairly cheap at dollar stores.

for LPR, I'll usually make a tadpole using 2 sheets of recovery wadding (usually Estes) with some dogbarf rolled inside and some loose dogbarf between that and the chute/streamer

JStarStar said:

Coffee-can lids (1-pound cans) can work well as blast deflectors too, although you have to be careful about sharp edges (use a no-sharp-edge can opener if you have one).

As far as wadding is concerned, dog barf as described above will work well. You can check by your local home-improvement store and see if they have any store-damaged or ripped-open bags. They will usually sell them pretty cheap and you will probably be set for wadding for life.

Another source of wadding is flame resistant crepe paper or flame resistant gift-packing tissue paper, both available fairly cheap at dollar stores.

Click to expand...

The club I launch with likes to use the cellulose (dog barf) wadding so it does look like we threw newspaper trash all over the field when we are done! :y:

As for alternatives, i like to buy crepe paper party streamers on the roll. They are labelled "flame retardant", and I have check it by holding a lit match to a piece. It browns slowly and doesn't burn. I usually buy a pack of two rolls at the 99 cents store. Very economical and handy in a roll form.


Jerome

On some larger size body tubes (Bt 70+) I have used paper muffin cups with a little dog barf.

The paper muffin cups can be found in the baking section of any grocery store or in the party section at Wal-Mart with the party streamers.

MALBAR 70 said:

On some larger size body tubes (Bt 70+) I have used paper muffin cups with a little dog barf.

The paper muffin cups can be found in the baking section of any grocery store or in the party section at Wal-Mart with the party streamers.

Click to expand...

Probably a great idea. But

muffin cups + dog barf

?

Just sounds kind of like, yuck.

JeromeK99 said:

The club I launch with likes to use the cellulose (dog barf) wadding so it does look like we threw newspaper trash all over the field when we are done! :y:

As for alternatives, i like to buy crepe paper party streamers on the roll. They are labelled "flame retardant", and I have check it by holding a lit match to a piece. It browns slowly and doesn't burn. I usually buy a pack of two rolls at the 99 cents store. Very economical and handy in a roll form.


Jerome

Click to expand...

Dog-barf wadding does look newspapery at first but as soon as there's a decent rainstorm it pretty much 'melts' into the ground.

MALBAR 70 said:

On some larger size body tubes (Bt 70+) I have used paper muffin cups with a little dog barf.

The paper muffin cups can be found in the baking section of any grocery store or in the party section at Wal-Mart with the party streamers.

Click to expand...

I question if cupcake liners or muffin cups are flameproof. :y: Are you talking paper style or the foil style liners?

I am pretty sure paper cupcake liners are fire resistant -- they've been discussed in other threads. Googling online it looks like they are usually flame resistant to 500F.

The downside is litter -- they produce a bigger piece of waste paper than any other wadding material. Dog barf crumbles into pieces while old style Estes wadding usually falls apart after a night out in the rain.

Estes wadding also has other advantages over dog barf when you are out in the field and nature calls......
Don't try it with Quest wadding, though.

Kirk G said:

I question if cupcake liners or muffin cups are flameproof. :y: Are you talking paper style or the foil style liners?

Click to expand...

I only use the paper cups, foil cups are not as bio-degradable. They do get scorched but they don't burn.

When I do use a muffin cup, I usually use one as a "floor cover" on models that have a parachute floor, TLP kits come to mind.
This keeps the dog barf from getting trapped inside the rocket. I suppose I could just use wadding, but I find the muffin cups a good fit in larger BT sizes.

BABAR said:

Estes wadding also has other advantages over dog barf when you are out in the field and nature calls......
Don't try it with Quest wadding, though.

Click to expand...

I'm certain there's a joke in there somewhere, but I'm not willing to work hard enough to go find it....:tongue: