Chinese lunar lander to be launched in December

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Winston

Lorenzo von Matterhorn
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It will deploy a 310 pound solar powered rover. The descent stage seems to be much larger than needed to land that rover and its other main payload, a near-ultraviolet astronomical telescope, so it's speculated in the comments on the Space.com web page that it's possibly big enough with the future addition of a small ascent stage to land one person relying on a space suit environment for the entire orbit-surface-orbit round trip. Even if not manned, they could put a significantly large sample return stage on it to return samples collected by future rovers.

https://www.space.com/23202-china-moon-rover-december-launch.html

chang-e-3-rover-testing.jpg
 
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They will be on the moon in 12 years or less I'd bet, maybe even 9 years.
 
They will be on the moon in 12 years or less I'd bet, maybe even 9 years.
Agreed. The more the merrier. Just more cool space stuff to read about and videos to watch.
 
Looks very familiar. If you know anything about the history of the US space program, you know how unconventional and out-of-the-box the US lunar lander was. I guess a new approach and fresh thinking was too much to ask for from the chinese.
 
Looks very familiar. If you know anything about the history of the US space program, you know how unconventional and out-of-the-box the US lunar lander was. I guess a new approach and fresh thinking was too much to ask for from the chinese.

It's a proven design, jetliners look alike too.
 
The concord looks different. I'm not opposed to going with what works, but it is not nearly as exciting as a fresh new bold idea. The original lunar lander was just that. It didn't look at all like what a spaceship is supposed to look like. Of course, a lot of people hated it, but that part of the risk of doing things differently.
 
The concord looks different. I'm not opposed to going with what works, but it is not nearly as exciting as a fresh new bold idea. The original lunar lander was just that. It didn't look at all like what a spaceship is supposed to look like. Of course, a lot of people hated it, but that part of the risk of doing things differently.

Was your first rocket a Shrocket? Mine wasn't. Blending wing airliners are shown to us every few years but none get made. Old success is better than new failure might be the Chinese thinking.
 
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It is certainly a safe way to go, but for space technology not the most useful. Back to the concord. The original design was from an american firm (Boeing maybe), but market forces in the US pushed the 747 to the frontline of development. Prudent financial thinking, that has paid off in spades, financially, but didn't really lead to any aerospace breakthroughs. The concord, on the other hand, was picked up by GB and France. They never really turned a profit on it, but the aerospace advancements were significant. If the chinese just duplicate what the americans did forty years ago, not much will come of it. If, however, they make some breakthroughs, it might just reinvigorate interest in an american space program. My hope is to see a real mars mission in my lifetime. So that's where I'm coming from.
 
It is certainly a safe way to go, but for space technology not the most useful. Back to the concord. The original design was from an american firm (Boeing maybe), but market forces in the US pushed the 747 to the frontline of development. Prudent financial thinking, that has paid off in spades, financially, but didn't really lead to any aerospace breakthroughs. The concord, on the other hand, was picked up by GB and France. They never really turned a profit on it, but the aerospace advancements were significant. If the chinese just duplicate what the americans did forty years ago, not much will come of it. If, however, they make some breakthroughs, it might just reinvigorate interest in an american space program. My hope is to see a real mars mission in my lifetime. So that's where I'm coming from.

I remember the concord, it was VERY expensive to operate, albeit there were only a dozen. I won't detract from the Chinese design, it's not all that different from most any lander design. Light, spindly and going someplace I'd like to go.
 
It is certainly a safe way to go, but for space technology not the most useful. Back to the concord. The original design was from an american firm (Boeing maybe), but market forces in the US pushed the 747 to the frontline of development. Prudent financial thinking, that has paid off in spades, financially, but didn't really lead to any aerospace breakthroughs. The concord, on the other hand, was picked up by GB and France. They never really turned a profit on it, but the aerospace advancements were significant. If the chinese just duplicate what the americans did forty years ago, not much will come of it. If, however, they make some breakthroughs, it might just reinvigorate interest in an american space program. My hope is to see a real mars mission in my lifetime. So that's where I'm coming from.

Mars in my lifetime?? Dream on...

Remember Koncordski?? The Soviet "copy" of Concorde?? It wasn't really a copy (per-se) but similar function breeds similar form. Remember too that the US had an SST program back in the late 60's/early 70's as well, and canceled it (too little returns/need seen, money could be plowed into other projects, like shuttle development (which incidentally if you believed the hype WOULD have plenty of returns and need vs. SST). Europeans went with SST over developing a manned space program. Soviets did SST just to prove they could do it. Soviets never had a need or use for it, so they're rotting abandoned over there somewhere. Europe did Concorde to prove they could compete technologically with the US, but never really turned a profit and the operational problems were vastly underestimated (just as the US did with the shuttle). The Soviets did a shuttle too, if for no other reason than to prove they could. Operationally it was an expensive mess so they left them to rot and went back to the tried-n-true Soyuz and expendable rockets. (US could have learned a valuable lesson here). The Europeans, like the US and its shuttle, simply couldn't let go of the idea of Concorde (like a reusable shuttle in the US) and thus continued operating them FAR longer than it made sense to do so...

So what's the lesson here??

Newer isn't necessarily better... After all, the only manned space vehicles currently flying are the Soyuz designed in the early 60's and the Shenzhou (which is basically an enlarged copy of Soyuz).

There's a lot going for "tried and true" versus "bleeding edge" technology... After all SpaceX is having great success with what is basically a modern-day copy of a Saturn IB mish-mashed with an R-7 Soyuz launcher... multi-engine kerosene first stage (like Saturn IB) and kerosene second stage (like R-7, vs. hydrolox upper stage on Saturn I/IB's S-IV and S-IVB stages respectively).

There are some interesting alternative designs out there for "improved" lunar lander concepts, such as the ULA "dual axis lander" proposals, but even NASA is unwilling to embrace them and simply went with their mega-upsized hydrolox version of the basic Apollo LM design for their long-canceled Altair lunar lander under the Constellation program. Other than the conversion to hydrogen/oxygen propellants over storable hypergolic propellants, there wasn't much interesting or innovative about NASA's design for Altair versus the LM either...

As for the Chinese-- whatever works... more power to them! Maybe it'll light a fire under someone's arse on this side of the Pacific...

Later! OL JR :)
 
Mars in my lifetime?? Dream on...

Remember Koncordski?? The Soviet "copy" of Concorde?? It wasn't really a copy (per-se) but similar function breeds similar form. Remember too that the US had an SST program back in the late 60's/early 70's as well, and canceled it (too little returns/need seen, money could be plowed into other projects, like shuttle development (which incidentally if you believed the hype WOULD have plenty of returns and need vs. SST). Europeans went with SST over developing a manned space program. Soviets did SST just to prove they could do it. Soviets never had a need or use for it, so they're rotting abandoned over there somewhere. Europe did Concorde to prove they could compete technologically with the US, but never really turned a profit and the operational problems were vastly underestimated (just as the US did with the shuttle). The Soviets did a shuttle too, if for no other reason than to prove they could. Operationally it was an expensive mess so they left them to rot and went back to the tried-n-true Soyuz and expendable rockets. (US could have learned a valuable lesson here). The Europeans, like the US and its shuttle, simply couldn't let go of the idea of Concorde (like a reusable shuttle in the US) and thus continued operating them FAR longer than it made sense to do so...

But, but...our SST had a pivoting wing. That looks better visually and is funner to draw and model you know.
 
If the chinese just duplicate what the americans did forty years ago, not much will come of it.
Actually, with only a few exceptions, that's pretty much what every spacefaring nation is doing these days for cost reasons. Only the highly competitive environment of the cold war space race allowed extremely challenging goals to be set and money to be thrown at problems, resulting in brand new technologies. Nowadays, it's seen as desirable to be as commercial off-the-shelf as possible. If it works, don't fix it. When it stops working for what you want to do, like the balloon landing system on Mars, come up with something else, like the sky crane.
 
If you had read it and not seen it, then my comment would make MUCH more sense.

Sprang for that on pay per view (PPV) since it was one of those "limited release" films that wasn't showing even in a urban area of 500k population. My review - "Meh..."

Here's another limited release space film coming in December, but available on PPV supposedly starting on Oct. 31st:

The Last Days On Mars

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_last_days_on_mars/
 
If you had read it and not seen it, then my comment would make MUCH more sense.
Now I recognize the intended reference and, yes, I did read 2010. The Europa Report crew violated the restriction (that they didn't know about) and paid the price.
 
Sprang for that on pay per view (PPV) since it was one of those "limited release" films that wasn't showing even in a urban area of 500k population. My review - "Meh..."

Here's another limited release space film coming in December, but available on PPV supposedly starting on Oct. 31st:

The Last Days On Mars

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_last_days_on_mars/


Hey now....
I like Europa. With the tiny budget I think they did a good job. It wasn't perfect, of course, but entertaining and somewhat believable.
 
Hey now....
I like Europa. With the tiny budget I think they did a good job. It wasn't perfect, of course, but entertaining and somewhat believable.
Yeah, it was "OK," but I paid $6.99 for it on PPV, something I normally don't do, and that isn't much less than the $7.50 I pay for a matinee showing of a major release at a new digital projection theater complex only a few miles from me, so that colors my review. "Moon" is another low budget space film that I paid nothing extra for viewing on cable and I actually liked the plot better.
 
A good amount of detailed info on the impressive Senor Chang'e (kidding, just Chang'e) Chinese lunar lander and rover to launch in December. Really looking forward to the high res lunar surface photos and wishing them full success:

https://www.spaceflight101.com/change-3.html
 
Chinese moon lander on the verge of launch
BY STEPHEN CLARK
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
Posted: November 27, 2013

https://www.spaceflightnow.com/china/change3/131127change3/

"Chinese officials say the mission is set for launch in early December, with landing on the moon scheduled for mid-December. China has not officially disclosed the mission's launch or landing dates.

But an aeronautical notice issued to warn pilots of an impending launch indicates the solar-powered rover is set for liftoff Sunday shortly after 1720 GMT (12:20 p.m. EST) from the Xichang space center in southwestern China's Sichuan province.

The launch will come in the middle of the night in China at approximately 1:20 a.m. Beijing time.

A Long March 3B rocket will boost the probe on course toward the moon, where the spacecraft will enter orbit five days after launch before dropping to the lunar surface for landing some time in mid-December, according to Wu Zhijian, a spokesperson for China's State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence, or SASTIND, which is managing the Chang'e 3 mission."
 
Senor Chang reference. Good work!

Who would have ever though the Chinese would be sending landers to the moon? The times, they are a Chang'e.
 
The eerie red cloud some of the Long March vehicles go up on fascinates me. Red fuming nitric acid and turpentine I think. Maybe kerosene. It just looks deadly...

CHINAMIL-NITRIC-ACID-500x202.jpg
 
The eerie red cloud some of the Long March vehicles go up on fascinates me. Red fuming nitric acid and turpentine I think. Maybe kerosene. It just looks deadly...

View attachment 155422

Not sure offhand which hypergols they use, but like the Soviets and early US rockets/missiles, they use hypergolic propellants...

Titan launches used to send up a pretty good orange cloud of nitrogen tetroxide or hydrazine...

Later! OL JR :)
 
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