New To RCRG

I'm not exactly sure how this happened, but somehow I recently stumbled my way into both an Estes Sweet Vee and an Aerotech Phoenix in the same week. These will likely be winter builds, so I have a little time to prepare myself for flying them.

I am completely new to RC aircraft, although I inherited a Great Planes PT-40 MkII that I had bought for my dad before he passed away. I'm not sure, however, that I have the time to invest in restoring it and then making regular trips to the local airstrip without seriously cutting into my rocket time.

With that in mind, I've been thinking about alternatives for honing my skills. One option that I'm considering is to get a copy of RealFlight and a Flyzone Calypso electric powered glider. It looks like version 7 of RealFlight is coming out later this month. Also, there is an undeveloped business park just down the road from my house that is a common hotspot for electric park fliers.

I was interested in the thoughts from some of the experienced RCRG guys out there. From my experience with ROSCO and ICBM, I know there is no substitute for joining a local club. I'm just wondering if it is possible to make the leap to RCRG without investing a bunch of time and money in traditional RC fixed wing aircraft first.

Cheers,
Michael

iqsy59 said:

...I recently stumbled my way into both an Estes Sweet Vee and an Aerotech Phoenix... I'm just wondering if it is possible to make the leap to RCRG without investing a bunch of time and money in traditional RC fixed wing aircraft first.

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With some, maybe (Edmonds Arcie, for example) but not the two that you have. IMHO, you will definitely need some stick time on a fairly fast plane before flying either of those. Something like a Parkzone Stryker. A cheap Chinese plane like the Hobbyking Radjet or Parkjet would be another option. They're under $75 RTF. My personal experience is that the sims only go so far and you'd be better off with real flight instead of RealFlight (TM) but that may be a minority opinion.

I agree with Mike. I encourage you to get some hands-on experience. I recommend starting with a slower model. You may want to find a local RC club, explain your goals to them, and ask for instruction. Most clubs have free instruction, and larger clubs have trainer airplanes available for instruction. Flying with an instructor may help you decide if you want to continue with RC or decide that it's not your thing. In any case, I recommend against flying a Phoenix as a first real-world model.

Ari.

I also recommend a Hobbyzone Champ as a plane to have in the backseat of the car for calm evenings. As you may have guessed, stick time is king. A Champ can be flown in most backyards in the calm evening and in a gym in the winter. For $89 for a complete setup it can't be beat.

https://www.horizonhobby.com/products/champ-rtf-HBZ4900

Save your money and start with this: https://rcdeskpilot.com/ The price is right and you can spend the saved cash on a starter airplane then work up to something a little faster. Gliders are good for training being big and reasonably slow but there is some small stuff thats very fun too.


Richard

Funny enough I am in a similar position as you - I have obtained a Phoenix as well and realized that there is NO WAY that I would be able to successfully pilot it without some experience. Additionally, the build has some aircraft techniques that I do not want to try for the first time on a kit which is OOP and somewhat expensive.

So here is what I have done. I did pick up a copy of realflight 6.5 (a month ago! I am a little annoyed they're releasing 7 so soon after i spent a bunch of money on it). It has been really useful to figure out how to use the controller and that little smooth motions are needed. Honestly though, any trainer software would likely get you this experience. I, personally, find flying on realflight exceedingly boring. I can do it for about 15 minutes and then i get tired of doing circles or trying to land. However, it does pay off as my coach at the local field has noticed that I am improving on my live stick.

I also purchased a Flyzone Calypso! It is a really nice plane - all of the RC guys were very interested in it -especially since it comes with ailerons. One of the experienced guys was excited to see that it was a 4-channel setup and said that it looked like a really good platform to learn on. I purchased the "Ready To Fly" package which is the plane, all servos installed and wired, receiver and transmitter. It is a good starter package except that nobody at the field has a Tactic transmitter to use as a "buddy box" for training. I would have probably considered a Parkzone Radian if I went with another RTF platform since it comes with Spektrum gear which is pretty common. However, it isn't really a big deal but if you are going to get lessons or help from someone it might save you some headaches to get compatible gear.

My "mentor" also has a trainer gas plane that he teaches me on - that has been very helpful since it helps me make sense of the trainer software. While the glider is a nice slow device, having to think a little faster with the gas plane has been helpful to me. It makes me realize that with the glider you have a lot more time to fix your mistakes than you realize and to just kind of relax. I would recommend also getting some stick time behind a gas or electric trainer as well just because that has helped me get more familiar with RC flying in general. I'd just be accepting of whatever anyone was willing to let you learn on for a trainer plane - it is in the RC club's best interest to give you lessons as there is a good chance they'll just suck you in. I have little desire to pick up a gas/nitro plane but learning on one is kind of cool. Granted, I still really suck at it, i just am getting to suck less. It was quite the thrill for me to land the glider somewhat gracefully....

I will say that getting live flying time is a challenge - bound by weather and time. Apparently they do some indoor flying as well but the time they do it locally is not really helpful for me right now, plus I don't want to spend even MORE money on this yet. While i am really excited to build some rocket gliders, I am not fully in love with RC flying (yet) but I am still an extreme beginner. I will admit that gliders, in general seem more appealing to me than the powered stuff but that is because I'm strange.

The other thing I am doing is working on building a "freds frog" glider out of balsa. That seems like a good platform to learn how to airfoil and such - not to mention that you can add on micro-servos and such and fly it around on cheap 18mm motors. For 10 bucks in balsa I can make 2 or 3 of these things.

Finally, I think that when I'm ready for a bigger RC glider plane I might consider picking up an Art Hobby Zuni V-wing and modifying that into a RCRG. It also would be a good way to build a larger glider but not have to do the wings - again all in prep for the Phoenix. We shall see how that plan works out in the future. As an aside - some of those Art Hobby gliders look simply awesome.

So I'll be curious to know what you think and what avenue you choose. I will say that the learning curve for RC is pretty steep and I don't know how to get around that without spending time and likely money getting that experience. I figure between the glider and the balsa rocket planes I should be able to get close and likely spend a lot of time on it.

jsargevt said:

Finally, I think that when I'm ready for a bigger RC glider plane I might consider picking up an Art Hobby Zuni V-wing and modifying that into a RCRG. It also would be a good way to build a larger glider but not have to do the wings - again all in prep for the Phoenix. We shall see how that plan works out in the future. As an aside - some of those Art Hobby gliders look simply awesome.

So I'll be curious to know what you think and what avenue you choose. I will say that the learning curve for RC is pretty steep and I don't know how to get around that without spending time and likely money getting that experience. I figure between the glider and the balsa rocket planes I should be able to get close and likely spend a lot of time on it.

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Personally, I would recommend the T-tail Zuni. V-tails are finicky in that you need precisely the same amount of throw on both rudder/elevators or you get some unintended roll with your pitch and visa-versa (read: a more advanced build). The only "issue" then is that you need to either do it "European" style and mount the motor underneath (the Phoenix is done this way), or do it "American" style and flip the tail upside-down and mount the motor high.

I expect that flying the Zuni is similar to Phoenix--they are both intermediate-performance gliders. While Zuni comes with sheeting on the wing already, repairing it after crashes is as labor-intensive as the Phoenix.

Here are a couple of cheaper, foam gliders I fly on D through G motors. Modifications for rocket power are minimal and repairs are cheap.

https://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19690__Hobbyking_Radjet_800_EPO_800mm_PNF_.html:


https://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/sto..._w_2500kv_Brushless_Motor_875mm_EPS_PNF_.html: (this one is convertible between electric and rocket power)


Both these airplanes come in "RTF" and "kit" versions. I recommend the kits--they are cheaper, and are easier to install MMTs into. Also, sometimes they are available from US warehouse which cuts down on shipping cost and time.

Ari.

Ari,

Thanks for the foam glider suggestions. I had forgotten that was on my list as well. The ones you show are much more in line with what I was looking for in place of the if jet ultra that I have seen around. The idea of both electric power and rocket power is nice since it is much cheaper to practice with electric rather than rocket motors.

RC is interesting but there is a lot to learn. It is interesting to see how much more popular RC is compared to rocketry (at least among adults). I do find it interesting that most planes these days are ARF or RTF. You can find kits easily but they just don't seem popular. Odd that it seems the opposite of rockets where most advanced fliers shun the RtF/e2x kits. However I will say that your average plane build will likely take much longer than your average rocket.

jsargevt said:

It is interesting to see how much more popular RC is compared to rocketry (at least among adults). I do find it interesting that most planes these days are ARF or RTF. You can find kits easily but they just don't seem popular. Odd that it seems the opposite of rockets where most advanced fliers shun the RtF/e2x kits.

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Rocketry is mostly about building. Once a rocket is complete, relatively few decisions remain, and the actual flying once you push the button is a spectator sport.

R/C is really two separate hobbies. One is building airplanes, another is flying them. Many more people seem to want to fly airplanes than to build them. There are master craftsmen in the hobby, but many more just want to fly.

Now putting together a high performance airplane kit is akin to putting together a high performance rocket kit. You buy fiberglass parts from a vendor, then you decide what electronics to put in, what motor(s) to use, what adhesives, telemetry (if any), video, etc. High end R/C pilots have as little patience for RTF models as do high end rocketeers, yet relatively few build completely from scratch.

Ari.

Thank you everyone for the excellent insight so far. It's particularly interesting to see that Jason is going down a similar path at the same time. I'm still trying to work out a balance in my mind of learning to fly without letting RC replace too much of my rocketry time.

I'm thinking that the Calypso, while good for training on unpowered descent, would not help me much with the most difficult part of controlling the glider under boost. I do like the price point of the Flyzone kits though. Now the Flyzone Switch is starting to catch my interest. From the videos that I have seen, it appears that it is fairly quick and twitchy when set up in the mid-wing configuration. Does anyone have experience with that particular aircraft? I know my PT-40 MkII would be a good way to start, but again it seems like more of a commitment because I could not fly it with the local park fliers.

Cheers,
Michael

Here are a couple of cheaper, foam gliders I fly on D through G motors. Modifications for rocket power are minimal and repairs are cheap.

https://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...00mm_PNF_.html:

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Ari,
This model from HobbyKing and your conversion look pretty cool. If someone bought this model, do they need to buy a new R/C transmitter from HobbyKing or would an old transmitter work alright.

Many HK airframes come in different packages. Some include everything, even the transmitter, though usually a very basic one, and it only works with HK receivers. On the low end, you might get pieces to build the airframe and the motor, but you need to add your own electronics. Depending on how old your transmitter is, you need to make sure it has a setting for elevon mix.

What kind of radio gear do you have?

Ari.

I have a variety. Some or all of these are quite old. I think the oldest is a Futuba Attack III, which I may have used this with my Lady Hawk. I think the next oldest is a Hi-Tec Focus IIssAM, which may have been for my SR-71 (I may have been able to use this on another model). I have an Hit-Tec Laser 4, which still works with my Arcie II. I have a Futuba FP-T7NFK, which works with 2 parasite gliders for my 4x Orbital Transport (OT). As I recall I was able to find a receiver on eBay for one of the OT gliders that worked with the same transmitter.

Older 72MHz FM transmitters are largely compatible across brands, as long as they are on the same physical channel. Newer 2.4 GHz units all use proprietary digital encodings and are only compatible within their brands. Very old FM radios (before 1991) may be incompatible with current FCC requirements for narrow band transmission.

Ari.

The foam HobbyKing Radjet uses a 4 channel TX/RX. Is this newer 2.4 GHz transmitter?

aerostadt said:

The foam HobbyKing Radjet uses a 4 channel TX/RX. Is this newer 2.4 GHz transmitter?

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Usually, it will tell you in the product description, but if it doesn't, there is a very easy way to tell. 72MHz transmitters and receivers have fairly long antennas, about 1m long. 2.4GHz equipment has very short antennas. The transmitter antenna looks similar to the antenna on a Wi-Fi router, so only 3-4" long or so. Rx antennas look like "whiskers."

aerostadt said:

I have a variety. Some or all of these are quite old. I think the oldest is a Futuba Attack III, which I may have used this with my Lady Hawk. I think the next oldest is a Hi-Tec Focus IIssAM, which may have been for my SR-71 (I may have been able to use this on another model). I have an Hit-Tec Laser 4, which still works with my Arcie II. I have a Futuba FP-T7NFK, which works with 2 parasite gliders for my 4x Orbital Transport (OT). As I recall I was able to find a receiver on eBay for one of the OT gliders that worked with the same transmitter.

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I heard about this OT upscale. I recall Bob Parks piloted part of if down. I'd love to know more about it.

aerostadt said:

The foam HobbyKing Radjet uses a 4 channel TX/RX. Is this newer 2.4 GHz transmitter?

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4 channels means the number of functions you can control--for example, your Attack is a 2-channel radio, Laser is a 4-channel radio and T7 is a 7-channel radio. You need 3 to fly either of these HK delats: aileron, elevator and throttle. Most any airplane radio you can buy these days has at least 4 channels (rudder is channel 4). You need to make sure the radio you want to use has elevon mix (Laser and T7 do). Many modern radios can have separate settings for different models you fly, so many pilots keep one transmitter and many receivers that all work with that transmitter. If you prefer to keep one transmitter per plane, the radios that come in HK's RTF packages are probably fine. I may be saying things that are obvious to you or going over your head--please let me know which :=)

Ari.

Ari,

There are several upscale OT's around, so I am not familiar with the one that Bob Parks piloted. I am located in Utah, if that is any help. I suspect that the other OT that you are talking about is in another state. What you and Brian (in the post before you) stated is probably a little over my head, but I think I can learn from your information.

Michael,

I have been flying R/C airplanes since 1975. I have helped dozens of people to learn to fly. I am not touting my great skill and experience but simply am pointing out that there are as many ways to learn to fly as their are people wanting to learn. There is no best way for all of us.

For my students i recommend a flight simulator. It is not necessary, since they weren't even available when I learned to fly, but they can really speed up the process. I recommend the RealFlight(TM) but regardless which one you buy or download that you can use a similar controller that you are going to fly the plane with. I have seen a lot of sims that use the keyboard to fly the plane. Unless you are going to fly the real plane with the keyboard there are going to be some MAJOR transition issues involved.

Someone mentioned that the simulator is different than actually flying. That is true in some respects but the two most important aspects of flying can be addressed on the simulator and you only incur virtual crash damage.

The first is the left and right control reversal. As the aircraft is flying away from you left rudder or aileron makes the plane bank/roll or yaw to YOUR left. If the plane is flying toward you the same left control input will cause the plane to bank/roll or yaw to YOUR right. This is a condition that even full scale pilots don't have to deal with since they are always oriented facing forward in the aircraft. I have seen people do all kinds of "tricks" to learn this such as turning their bodies the way the plane is flying but the best thing to do is get as much stick time as you can and it will suddenly lock in one day and you will never even have to think about it again. Like riding a bike.

The second mistake most newcomers make is over-controlling. Most planes only need minute control inputs to change course. Larger control movements are for aerobatics. If you are used to playing video games then you will likely need to tame down your thumbs for R/C. The simulator will actually help you a lot with both of these problems.

Learning to fly R/C is going to be time consuming. Some learn faster than others but it is going to take some kind of time commitment to be successful. The guys you see doing the precision maneuvers or flying jets and helis on Youtube have thousands of hours of stick time to do what they do and many of them fly daily. You just have to decide what you can afford, time wise, and work toward your goal.

Lots of good suggestions here. Pick the ones you think might work for you.

Jason,

I am a Great Planes dealer and it is likely that if you bought the RealFlight 6.5 right before they made the announcement for 7 I may be able to get you a free upgrade once it comes out. Save your receipt. Contact me by email or message.