Still obsessing... Gizmo stability and (ACK!) math!

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majordude

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This is irritating the inner Mr. Monk in me.

I have built a Wildman Gizmo with the new metal tipped nose cone. I added 15oz of nose weight, assembled it and the CG was about 2" below the top of the body tube. When I insert a simulated engine, the CG moves all the way down to about 1" before the fins (which is about where the CP is).

I took the nose weight out and weighed everything and entered it into OpenRocket. The sucker is marginally stable if not unstable with any 1-3 grain CTI motor. Hmmm.

Screen Shot 2013-09-15 at 9.33.17 AM.jpg

Screen Shot 2013-09-15 at 9.33.59 AM.jpg

But then I applied a cone using the math here: https://www.apogeerockets.com/downloads/Newsletter154.pdf

5.125" x 3.14 (Pi) = 16.09" long

And it becomes "stable". But is this true in real life or just in theory?

Screen Shot 2013-09-15 at 9.18.10 AM.jpg

When I add the weight (15 oz.) back to the nose cone it is over 1.0 caliber stable.

Screen Shot 2013-09-15 at 9.20.38 AM.jpg

This is the OpenRocket file. I hope it doesn't reset things.

View attachment Gizmo with Drag Cone.rkt

These are what the overided weights should be:

Nose Cone = 47.35 oz.
Body= 64.40 oz.

These weights are just painted parts, epoxied fins, etc... but no recovery devices (chutes, shock cords, etc.).

Basically, without the base drag, this sucker is unable or marginally stable (on paper at least).

Feedback?
 
Last edited:
1 pound in the nose makes the gel coat nose version stable. You have the heavier FWFGMT (filament wound fiberglass metal tip) nose. As long as you don't under power it......you will be fine!

Now stick an L in it and let-er-rip!!!
 
Quite elementary. Just throw a K2045 vmax in it. don't worry about nose weight, you won't need it. You will, however need a tracker.

trust me - been there, done that :>
 
This is irritating the inner Mr. Monk in me.

I have built a Wildman Gizmo with the new metal tipped nose cone. I added 15oz of nose weight, assembled it and the CG was about 2" below the top of the body tube. When I insert a simulated engine, the CG moves all the way down to about 1" before the fins (which is about where the CP is).

I took the nose weight out and weighed everything and entered it into OpenRocket. The sucker is marginally stable if not unstable with any 1-3 grain CTI motor. Hmmm.

View attachment 145867

View attachment 145868

But then I applied a cone using the math here: https://www.apogeerockets.com/downloads/Newsletter154.pdf

5.125" x 3.14 (Pi) = 16.09" long

And it becomes "stable". But is this true in real life or just in theory?

View attachment 145864

When I add the weight (15 oz.) back to the nose cone it is over 1.0 caliber stable.

View attachment 145865

This is the OpenRocket file. I hope it doesn't reset things.

View attachment 145866

These are what the overided weights should be:

Nose Cone = 47.35 oz.
Body= 64.40 oz.

These weights are just painted parts, epoxied fins, etc... but no recovery devices (chutes, shock cords, etc.).

Basically, without the base drag, this sucker is unable or marginally stable (on paper at least).

Feedback?

In OpenRocket, simulate it without the big cone thing on the back.
Run Component Analysis from the top menubar, and move the angle of attack around. If it is always at least half a caliber stable, you should be good.

Load your recovery in the actual rocket, put the motor in, and hold it up in the wind supporting under the CG. If it is stable, it will turn into the wind from any starting angle. That is the ultimate test.
 
I have run the Apogee base drag simulation on both my 4" and 7.5" upscale Fatboy rockets and both have flown well. As originally built the 4" had around a pound of nose weight. After running the simulation I pulled the weight and it flew fine. It did like to reverse weather cock, I.E.fly with the wind, but it was still stable. Never had any problem with the 7.5". It has flown on motors from an AT J390 Hybrid to a CTI 54MM Red L motor. It has also flown with the 3 38MM and 3 29MM motor mounts loaded for air starts.
 
I built a 5 inch Gizmo and added about 4 ounces to the nosecone and it flies fine, even on a big H. As mentioned above, it does drift downwind on the way up instead of weather cocking.
 
I built a 5 inch Gizmo and added about 4 ounces to the nosecone and it flies fine, even on a big H. As mentioned above, it does drift downwind on the way up instead of weather cocking.

Does your's balance about where mine does (see images)? Where is your CG?
 
Unfortunately my Gizmo is 'out in the woods' so I can't give any measurements..But, mine was an older one that Performance Rocketry(now Rocket Warehouse) produced..I have flown it mainly on 1 and 2 grain 54mm loads with ZERO nose weight..Last flight I flew it on a 38mm 5 grain load(again NO nose weight), it 'rainbowed' because one of the rail guides hung on the rail, but it was not an issue of stability margin..And unfortunately my RS file is on a HD that recently croaked on me..

Simulation programs will show it as unstable..It did on mine..But it still flew fine with no nose weight..If I recall it weighed in a smidgin under 5 lbs empty..
 
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