Launch your model rockets with your smartphone using our bluetooth launch controller!

BlueNose Mobile Mission Control
Smartphone Bluetooth Launching Model Rockets
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/479311/x/1852164

Created by two guys in a garage as a fun project we decided to share and try some crowd funding.

Model rocketry is a lot of fun!! It is great for small and big kids, families, and friends. But let's face it - the launch process for most is a little antiquated. Who amongst us hasn't cursed those shiny little alligator clips that barely hang on, except when they're trying desperately to touch each other? And every amateur rocketeer knows the frustration of performing a countdown, pressing down the safety key, holding your breath, and jamming the launch button only to have nothing happen and the kids are disappointed.

Imagine this instead. You open the missile cover on your Mobile Mission Control (MMC) and flip the toggle switch. The app on your phone immediately recognizes the launch module and activates the control interface. You connect to the igniter using the supplied professional hook clips. They grab on, don't let go, and are fully insulated to prevent short circuits. You plug the cable into the MMC and your smartphone tells you the wiring status. Almost always, that status is Good to Go. But if the igniter was split or squashed when that little plug went in, you know immediately. Status lights on the launcher and an alert in the app tell you whether a short circuit or open circuit would have delayed your launch. Bad/cracked igniter, touching wires...

Then you perform your countdown and touch the button. Inside our custom little box, a sophisticated four-wire sensing circuit is activated to deliver a precision controlled launch current, and with a sharp whoosh, your rocket disappears into the sky. The launch times you see in our video (posted on our page) are the real thing. You press the button and it launches immediately. We have a fully functional prototype and its a lot of fun!

We need you to help promote our project (website, twitter, facebook, email to friends) and help us reach our goals. Model rocketry should be wireless for the launch and we would love to reach our stretch goals so flight metrics can be collected wirelessly and shared online!! We will also be able to support multi-engine and multi-rocket launches.

Purchasing the components required for this project alone in single units is much more expensive (and not always possible) than being able to buy them in bulk. Getting our custom circuit board printed requires quantity.

Please help share this link https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/479311/x/1852164

Thanks!

Interesting I'm working on something wireless too, but it will be open source and not using a phone with Bluetooth as it’s too dangerous for the interference. My system is good for up to 1000 meter; make it useful for High Power too.

Nice idea, but I would like to know what precautions you have taken against accidental ignition through interference from other devices using bluetooth, as I wouldn't be happy using this until those measures are in place.

Some suggestions...

At the very least you need a continuity check LED, some kind of removable keyswitch for the high-current side, and some kind of reasonably secure digital code between your app and the MCU on the board to prevent an arbitrary Bluetooth connection from triggering it (there IS an MCU, isn't there? I didn't see one, unless it's on the BT module). Those "hook clips" may have problems with high-current igniters, they're not designed for that much current. Also, you need at least 500' of range, the guys that are using wireless launch systems are generally HPR flyers and they don't want to string 500' of wire between the LCO and the pad.

Finally, I would suggest investing in about $30 or so and getting a real circuit board to show off before you post pictures, they're $5 per square inch for three boards from OSH Park. Virtually every small developer I know uses them, they're the bom. If you don't know how to lay out a board, you need some more technical expertise before you start trying to get funded. This is an interesting project, but I don't think you're quite ready to market it yet.

Back in the day had a relay box & 12v gel cell at the pad hooked to a car alarm system - when both buttons in the fob were held down for 5 seconds the alarm sys would complete the circuit and the pad would fire.

Had the fob mounted in a ST TOS Communicator replica, but was told not to bring my launch system back out, EVER, because it lacked a 'removable key' at the switch .

Although the buttons could not be pressed with the lid closed, although no one could launch it accidentally with the communicator in my pocket (with lid closed), even though you could press either buttons and even hold them down one at a time or momentarily press them both and the system would not fire...it was not a 'legal' launch system in the eyes of NAR or Tripoli.

I think that BT arming of altimeters will be the next rage ... but as a launch system the phone lacks 'springable/momentary' switches and like mine of past - does not have a 'safety - interlock - removable key'.

Also the electronics of my old system (beyond the relay box and the snazzy housing) cost $38 a brain and two fobs.

Kenny

KenRico said:

I think that BT arming of altimeters will be the next rage ... .....

Kenny

Click to expand...

this is what I'm working too, not only arming the altimeter, but also removing the shunts on the pyro.

Area66 said:

this is what I'm working too, not only arming the altimeter, but also removing the shunts on the pyro.

Click to expand...

I'm very excited to hear that . Any chance of getting a LCARS type of interface like that android tricorder program ? Or a flashing red alert when its armed ?

Kenny

KenRico said:

I'm very excited to hear that . Any chance of getting a LCARS type of interface like that android tricorder program ? Or a flashing red alert when its armed ?

Kenny

Click to expand...

Actually you gone have led for the pyro too. I don't like call it shunt, as it's not, it's a circuit that will disconnect the pyro from the altimeter and ground the pyro connectors together, so static can't be induce in the pyro wire acting like antenna. The system will arm first the Altimeter, it will boot with the pyro disconnected. After a certain time the short on the pyro will be disconnected and them the pyro connected, you will then ear the continuity of the pyro from the altimeter ( like a strato logger) . With an Arduino altimeter a green led can be used to show the continuity. Eventually such a system can be integrated to a single board with an Arduino altimeter .

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the comments.



Range:

Our target audience is NOT the HPR crowd. We are using Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) which has a nominal range of 160 ft (50 m). This project is aimed squarely at the "sunday afternoon with kids" "Estes rockets" market. Hope this helps put things into perspective.


Interference:

- In terms of radio noise triggering the device, that is impossible. The mobile device communicates with our MMC launch box using the Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) protocol. The BLE module in the launcher contains an embedded microcontroller that controls and monitors the launch circuitry. The only way that the launcher will fire the igniter is if it receives a properly formatted, authenticated bluetooth protocol message. This is definitely NOT a "see this radio frequency, turn on a switch" type device. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy for more background information. By way of analogy, there are no circumstances under which rubbing a 9V battery on your HDMI cable would put your picture on the TV or interference on your WiFi causing you to accidentally receive a copy of Microsoft Office. <grin> This is the same thing.

- In terms of accidental or malicious launching by third parties, the mobile device and launcher are associated using BLE pairing and bonding. Launch (and other) messages are encrypted and authenticated. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth#Pairing_and_bonding for more background information. No one else can fire your rocket.



Other safety mechanisms:

- The cable running from the launch box to the igniter is removable at the launch box end. We are using a simple and easy to remove connector. The safety protocol is that you only plug the cable into the launcher after you have attached the clips and walked away.

- The launcher detects and reports the following conditions, which are indicated on the launch box with LED's, and also on the app immediately (which is great for instant troubleshooting): 1) launch cable disconnected, 2) launch cable connected but igniter connection open (broken), and 3) igniter short circuited (wires touching somewhere). For those who want the technical details, this is accomplished with Four-terminal sensing. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-terminal_sensing for background information.


Miscellaneous:

- The current requirement to reliably fire an Estes igniter with no perceptible delay is ~1.5 Amperes. The igniter fire time is less than one second. The hook clips used in the project are rated for 5.9 Amps (continuous duty).

- As posted in the project description, the product will ship with a printed circuit board, not a perfboard. This is one of the reasons for the crowd funding.


I believe this addresses all concerns brought forth above and should put things into perspective for our particular target audience. Thanks for your interest. If you know any people not into HPR and just occassional simple model rocketry with their families, send them our way. https://igg.me/at/mmc/x/1852164

Thanks!

Interesting. And I already have the iPhone.

Some comments/questions:

I can (somewhat) accept just not plugging one of the banana plugs into the box as the safety key...though I'd rather see you add an arming relay or MOSFET switch or something controlled by the app so that you have to do more than just tap the go button once you're at the launch position. This relay/solid-state switch should unlatch say 2s after you tap "launch" and/or perhaps only stay "armed" for, say 10 seconds after you command it - just long enough to do a proper countdown for spectators. You would have to tap "launch" within that window or else rearm.

How do those test clips hold up to repeated launches? I'd think the little plastic bits that the hooks actually retract back into (and which trap the igniter leads) would be melted by repeated ignitions.

I'm not sure you should call the black powder propellant "gunpowder" in your writeup.

You used one of my favorite rockets in some of your demos - the Nova Payloader.

Nothing extra is needed for multi-stage rockets as long as there is only one motor per stage.

I am very tempted to put in enough to get an early bird kit if this goes because it is so intriguing.

Thanks again for the comments.

Our launcher uses a power MOSFET for firing the igniter, under the microcontroller's control. It's only active for the actual firing period, a couple seconds at most (a fixed duration set by the microcontroller).

The launch circuit contains a virtual circuit breaker that immediately locks out the firing MOSFET in case of an over current before or during ignition. The trip point of this interruptor is kept very low until the actual moment of ignition, during which it is brought high enough to fire the igniter, and then immediately brought low afterward.

The test clips are meant to be held away from the engine exhaust by bending the igniter off to the side. Also this is for non HPR rockets. We haven't experienced any issues during all of our testing. It will be an easily replaceable part if there was a problem. We are designing with being able to easily replace parts as required for our initial production run with the crowdfunding. We are nailing down our circuit board at the moment.

The connector for the launch cable is not banana plugs. This was for purposes of the working prototype. We are likely settling on using an RJ45 connector. This helps easily accommodate our 4-wire sensing by having the extra conductors, and is a simple connector to unplug/plug that everyone is already familiar with.

We would love to have you contribute for an early bird kit. The link is https://igg.me/at/mmc/x/1852164

Anyone who is part of this initial production run will get special treatment, can provide feedback, get quick responses, etc. We aren't a big company, just a couple guys with a fun hobby. Thanks!

mmc said:

.................We are likely settling on using an RJ45 connector. This helps easily accommodate our 4-wire sensing by having the extra conductors, and is a simple connector to unplug/plug that everyone is already familiar with.

Click to expand...

Is this a joke ? a RJ45 is the last thing to use for igniters cables, and you don&#8217;t need extra wire to sense if the igniter is short, cut or burn. The advertising is good, it&#8217;s just the product that not up to ; it as security hole

I am not looking to argue with people or start any flame war. If you are not interested in the project, then stop watching this thread. Everything we do has been with a lot of testing and measuring. The stuff we are using is 24 awg or better and very sufficient for what we need. This is not HPR. We aren't asking people to fund a business. We aren't starting a new business out of this. It is a hobby we are sharing with people something new we came up with, and hoping to produce a small run (for the custom printed circuit boards and ability to buy components in quantity). The project is setup as flexible funding. We will still build our kits in single units if we have to. Anyone who contributes will get a kit even if the goal we would like to reach is not attained. I am not sure why you are responding the way you do. If you disagree, you may certainly just ignore this thread and go read other things you believe in and are interested in.

mmc said:

If you disagree, you may certainly just ignore this thread and go read other things you believe in and are interested in.

Click to expand...

It's a forum so we can disagree.


Oh I see, you get member here just to sell your product and you expect we gone jump and send you money ? Sorry many of us know electronic, so we don&#8217;t buy the advertising. ( may be too much of microprocessor in your ad) If it's for launch small Estes rocket the one who come in the kit do the job as you need only 15 feet distance. An the Estes is safe to use too.
Look at the one I use, since it's a prototype I used an old train controller as casing, you can already see that I worry much than you about security; I even have something to check if the relay is not jam in the wrong position. For me it's very important to be able to disarm the system at the pad. So the launcher will arm it only when his rocket will have the igniter connected and it will be at some distance ( the lenght of the wire ) . Best thing when I will be satisfy, I will not patent it and give all the info for free.

PS the switch is not need except that I use it to test sensitive BP ejection charge, so I want to unplug the continuity led when I do so

View attachment 141139

You mistaken our intentions. This is just for the novelty factor of people who don't know electronics and wants to share in the hobby in different ways. It is neat to see that everyone has different ways of approaching it. It is great that you have the know how to do your own stuff. Not everyone does and some are just happy with basic A/B/C single engine rockets (which is our target). So far all the families we have launched with the prototype think it is neat to be able to do it from a smartphone. They like the blinking lights. They are interested in it for the novelty. Each of the kids want to have a turn pushing the launch button. And with the 4-wire sensing, we are avoiding the frustrating moments where people push on the launch button and nothing happens. This tells us if everything is good (no shorts, no open circuits, cable is connected, etc). It is geared at a different audience than yourself. We don't want this to turn into a business. We are happy keeping it as one of our hobbies.

mmc said:

We don't want this to turn into a business. We are happy keeping it as one of our hobbies.

Click to expand...

so then why you talk about pattent ? if you have a good idea you have to share with us...

Just wondering, what is the final button you hit (aka the launch button)? Is it a button on the screen? If so, that probably will not be safe. Also, the NAR safety code requires a removable safety interlock in series with the launch button. I do not see that on this launch controller.
Am I just missing something?


If I have mistaken something, please correct me.

Matt

The patent comment was removed. Your page must be cached in your web browser if you are still seeing it. We are going open with the people who contribute and obtain our kits so they can also play around with them if they want and make their own modifications and provide helpful and valued feedback.

blackbrandt said:

Just wondering, what is the final button you hit (aka the launch button)? Is it a button on the screen? If so, that probably will not be safe. Also, the NAR safety code requires a removable safety interlock in series with the launch button. I do not see that on this launch controller.
Am I just missing something?


Matt

Click to expand...

Even worst, just as exemple: a Father and his son have both the same pair key on their phone , and let me guess ; they forget to use a setting to change the pair key on the device so everyone who purchase one will have the same pair key

The app has a connection screen to authenticate/pair/bond to the BLE module. Only 1 authenticated connection permitted. The physical launch cable must be disconnected before you connect igniter to rocket. The app has the ability to sense a connected cable (due to extra conductors we have and 4-wire sensing). The physical cable becomes the interlock as it is physically disconnected. There is no way to fire the igniter with the cable disconnected.

mmc said:

The app has a connection screen to authenticate/pair/bond to the BLE module. Only 1 authenticated connection permitted. .

Click to expand...

what bluetooth module are you using ?

We are using the BLE112 https://www.bluegiga.com/BLE112_Bluetooth_Smart_module
The app and ble as we configured will not allow 2 different phones to connect simultaneously. This as already been addressed.

I am sorry for causing such commotion over something fun that we are doing for our hobby and wanted to share. Posting to this forum was a mistake and somewhat discouraging.

mmc said:

We are using the BLE112 https://www.bluegiga.com/BLE112_Bluetooth_Smart_module
The app and ble as we configured will not allow 2 different phones to connect simultaneously. This as already been addressed.

Click to expand...

this is not something you have configured, by default multiple simultaneous pairings are not allowed under the Bluetooth spec.

Reading through this thread has been enlightening and somewhat disappointing. I was excited to see that someone has come up with a trendy way to launch LPR's - something that might bring more people into the hobby - something that is positive for the sport (at least in my opinion). I do agree this is not something that should be used for HPR as there are many dangers associated when getting into that territory.

And provided all safety protocols are met for LPR, what is the major issue here? Looks like the developers have met the intent of the NAR Safety Code? I know things have changed since I first started rocketry in the early 70's when we used two leads connected to a car battery to fire them off ... did not have launch controllers and safety pins (maybe they were available - but we didn't have that luxury).

While looking through Indiegogo a few weeks back I stumbled upon this idea - and that is what has brought me back to rocketry after an absence of about 20 years. I am enthused to see that there are people in LPR with some good ideas. I also see that there are new players in the market besides Estes - Semroc, Quest, etc. Although I do miss the styles of Canaroc and Centuri from the 70's.

So even though I'm new to the forum - and no AREA66, I have no affiliation or vested interest with the creators of Bluenose MMC - I do have a love for the sport and I trust I won't be criticized for either. You have been nothing but critical in the entire thread in respect to this idea - if your major concern is safety - then I commend you .. and perhaps it will help the developers tweak the product to meet the code. If the developers have met the intent of the NAR - then you should commend them. If you have no interest in it - then that's fine too.

I will invest in one of the kits as it is interesting to me personally and I look forward to getting back into the hobby and reliving some of my youth. Can't wait for the kit to arrive.

Thanks Badger, we really appreciate your post.


As a side note to everyone, we spent a bunch of time and got Android working as well for our kit. So it works with both iOS and Android smartphones that support Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE).

Badger said:

I will invest in one of the kits as it is interesting to me personally and I look forward to getting back into the hobby and reliving some of my youth. Can't wait for the kit to arrive.

Click to expand...

If you want something more simple to use and doN,t care about safety key get this thing

https://www.rfcontrolsystem.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=166_409&products_id=1095


this kit can be mod to add safety switch too.

Anything ever come of this? Noticed the apple commercial where they launch rockets via a phone....

I actually asked these guys if it was theirs in the ad and they said "no". I put money in for one but basically iOS 7 broke the Bluetooth setup they were using and this problem is not yet solved. Since I am an iPhone owner and have iOS 7 on my phone I'd rather they get it sorted if at all possible.

They managed to solve the iOS 7 problem (and have high hopes it'll be OK when iOS 8 comes out). I now have one of these devices in my possession and have static tested it successfully. With a little luck I'll be able to sneak over to the nearby high school football field tomorrow and give it an actual test.

I am still wondering what the one in the iPhone ad was, though.....

Looking back on this thread, I should use the MMC to launch my much-worn Nova Payloader on its 60th flight.

Just get this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E3NTSAS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20