HPR Cert. 1 Kit Choices

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Voxels

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2013
Messages
75
Reaction score
0
I've been thinking recently about getting into HPR, and was wondering whether anyone has any ideas regarding kits I could build and fly for my Level 1 Cert. I've listed the ones below that I was thinking of doing, with what I believe to be the pros and cons of each one next to it.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

1. AeroTech ISQY Tomahawk, modified to accept 29mm motors.
+ Supersonic on an I/high H
+ High altitudes on larger motors- possible dual deploy candidate
+ Low cost of kit
- Recovery distance/losing the rocket on Cert flight due to high altitudes
Perhaps could be flown on low H and with ballast to keep altitudes and speeds low on Cert. flight.
2. MadCow Super DX1
+ Big rocket
+ 'Safer' altitudes regarding recovery.
- Lower performance than Tomahawk.
- More expensive

V
 
A couple suggestions:
1. Aerotech Mirage
+ Fairly inexpensive..Hobblinc has it for $59.89
+ Big rocket, easy to track..My daughter used this rocket for her L1 on a CTI H180 and was able to track the entire flight and recovered about 300 yards from pad..

2. Aerotech Sumo
+Short 'stubby' rocket..Won't go very high even on low 'I's
- More expensive at $79.99 at Hobbylinc
++ Rocket I used for MY L1 cert..:D
 
Last edited:
Thanks-I live in the UK though, so supplies are somewhat limited regarding HPR kits- that's why I've been looking into MPR conversions.

I rather like the Mirage, and would consider paying for shipping, but I'm not so sure if it would survive the shipping and our customs.

It would also be cool to be able to go supersonic later on using the same rocket, as I quite like high performance rockets.
 
Personally, I'd suggest the Madcow kit -- heavier tubes, which means it'll be more durable on H motors in the long run.

While you can fly AeroTech kits on bigger motors, they're really designed with midpower in mind.

-Kevin
 
I'd have to ship the MadCow kit though, and I'm not sure it too would survive- has anyone had experience with shipping rockets from America to the UK?

I could reinforce the AT kit with some monodirectional CF rods, as is done to strengthen wings in RC Planes. Has anyone had experience with this method?
 
Try to keep it low; a 4 in, rocket with a 38 mm motor tube will give you plenty of option for a cardboard rocket, you can put a 29mm with an adapter . No problem with Madcow, they use a good box for shipping.


If you like performance with Aerotech, get an Arreaux , I Dual Deploy with mine, and it fly like creazy on a H54 and reach 3000 feet on a G64, so you can use it a LP launch too. But I will not use it for a certification, it go too high and it<s hard to track.

View attachment 139622
View attachment 139623
 
I like the look of the Arreaux. I only really want to pay to ship one rocket from the States though, so I might go with that and then ballast as necessary to achieve a 'safer' flight.
 
I can't compare the Madcow kit to the other, since I don't own a Aerotech Tomahawk, but I can recommend the fine materials of the Madcow kit. If you take care and time building it, it can withstand anything (especially careless mistakes on my part!)

I got my certification on the Super DX3 using a 38mm motor. I flew it four times that day. Once, the motor failed and blew out the side of the motor casing, shooting the casing up through the rocket and deploying the recovery gear by smashing into the bulkhead. The rocket took that like a champ, and was on the launch pad again 10 minutes later. My last flight I didn't quite wrap my parachute all the way with the Nomex blanket, and the nylon melted to the shroud lines, failing to deploy at about 2200 ft. Fell straight down onto the hard ground without even cracking a fin.

I also liked that kit because I plan on using it for my level two certification. I've since built an electronics bay and modified it for dual deploy, so the kit is very versatile as well.
 
I'd have to ship the MadCow kit though, and I'm not sure it too would survive- has anyone had experience with shipping rockets from America to the UK?

I could reinforce the AT kit with some monodirectional CF rods, as is done to strengthen wings in RC Planes. Has anyone had experience with this method?

Shipping is chancey enough within the US so I can understand your apprehension over a trans-Atlantic purchase. Is the Tomahawk available locally ? I believe it comes with a 29mm motor mount but at 13 oz. and 1.9 in. diameter I think it would be a little too "interesting" of a flight. Most folks here would advocate a low and slow approach to cert flights and a level 1 rocket in the 1+ lb. range and 3 in. diameter or larger airframe. Not to say it couldn't be done with careful prep and some added "ballast" wouldn't hurt. I've never flown supersonic but my intuition says that the stock plastic fins on Aerotech models would not survive a mach busting flight.
 
I was suggesting the Arreaux as a second rocket, not the one for certification, but it can be done, mine weight 23 onces, for the motor a h54 Cesaroni will bring it at 3050 feet and an Aerotech H97J at 3150 feet if you have the same weight as me. Keep in mind that I lost the Arreaux of sight around 2000 feet.


my next order will be a Madcow Arcas HV 2.6 " in fiberglass with the altimeter bay. This can be a grat choice as it's more heavy, it's fiberglass and not that expensive. Once you start with Fiberglass , you don't look at other thing anymore.


https://www.madcowrocketry.com/Arcas_HV_Rocket_p/k-144.htm
 
It seems that MadCow kits are unsurpassed in terms of part quality, and I think that I want a reliable rocket that works every time for my first HPR, and then take on mach busting later on. I'm still not so sure about the shipping though- has anyone had any experience with HPR shipping from the USA to the UK?

I think I'm going for the Super DX3, as it uses materials I'm more familiar with, and looks to be a fairly robust rocket.

V
 
I think I'm going for the Super DX3, as it uses materials I'm more familiar with, and looks to be a fairly robust rocket.

You won't be disappointed! I thought for sure I could have managed to break mine by now, but I'm fairly certain its indestructible!
 
You don't necessarily need to ship from the US, Rockets and Things (Malcolm) has usually got some HPR kits and some very suitable for L1 if you haven't seen him previously. (An other vendor is available in the UK ;) )

I would tend to agree that going with a simple 4 inch tube with a 38mm mmt is a good idea for certification, you can build it bulletproof and it will stay in sight the whole flight.

Good Luck with your Cert, the more HPR flyers in the UK the better!

Bas
 
With the issues of shipping kits, I have to ask, what is the availability of components? Can you get the nose cones, BTs, and MMTs? I assume ply for CRs will be available there as easily as the States. If components are available, I would seriously consider scratch building a rocket. It doesn't have to be complicated and you avoid all the hassle and risk of shipping a kit. For L1, I would recommend a 3" or 4" BT with a 38mm MMT. Something that ends up about 3 - 5 lbs. The 38mm gives you access to the full range of L1 motors while the 3 - 5 lb range lets you fly low on baby H or get really high on large I motors, depending on budget and field conditions.

I never recommend a MPR for L1 cert. They will certainly work, but afterward you still have to build a larger rocket to be able to fly the full range of L1 motors and until you do, you can't fly L1 unless conditions are right to allow very high flights because that what you get with a MPR using HPR motors.
 
Another vote to scratch build. 3-5 pounds is a great target. For my L1 I went with a bluetube 2.6" 4 foot tall rocket at about 40oz. An H133 took it to about 1200' or so. 38mm is nice and surely not a bad idea. But 29mm has plenty of options to keep you busy until you build the next bird. I can put my level one rocket up on an F50T, or anything up to the I200W. That's a seriously wide range of options. Just the five motors for the 29/240 case are awesome.
 
Last edited:
Scratchbuilding is possible- I suppose I just wanted a proven design for my first HPR. Come to think of it, it would be possible to source components for the kits in the UK, and build the kits using those rather than shipping the actual kit from the USA. Ply for centering rings/fins is readily available here, and I have access to a laser cutter that I can cut them out on.
 
Ever look at a fiberglass rocket such as the wildman kits? They're indestructible. Customs might try but no success. Any of the kits in a JR size (2.1 inch) will fly quite nicely on a H to a moderate altitude (<2000 feet). You really can't break them - I've tried!

rick
 
You don't necessarily need to ship from the US, Rockets and Things (Malcolm) has usually got some HPR kits and some very suitable for L1 if you haven't seen him previously. (An other vendor is available in the UK ;) )

I would tend to agree that going with a simple 4 inch tube with a 38mm mmt is a good idea for certification, you can build it bulletproof and it will stay in sight the whole flight.

Good Luck with your Cert, the more HPR flyers in the UK the better!

Bas

I've had a look at the website for R&T- it seems all their HPR kits are out of stock. Do you know if this is just an admin error?
 
I got my HPR kit from Rebel Rocketry, which is an EU vendor.
Thanks to Bas for the heads up on that store.

And hi Bas! :)
 
I got my HPR kit from Rebel Rocketry, which is an EU vendor.
Thanks to Bas for the heads up on that store.

And hi Bas! :)

I've heard of Rebel before, but didn't know that they shipped to the uk- I think I'll be ordering from there. As they don't stock Madcow kits, this is the one that I've been looking at for my cert 1. https://www.rebelrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?info=p1883_Intruder.html . I noticed it uses plastic 'quantum tubing' though- has anyone had any experience working with this, especially with painting it?
 
I'm now working on some quantum tubing, on my PML Patriot. It's great stuff, but a few points to note are that in expands and contracts a little with temperature changes. Not too problematic for us here in the UK though. It also needs major sanding before any glue or paint is applied to it. Need to get it really rough or else nothing will stick. Make sure you wash it before sanding though or else you'll bury the nasty, unsticky residue further into the tube.
 
May well be, the website is not updated as often as it could be ;)

Best bet is to give him a call and ask. He gave me good advice for my cert and I got a LOC Onyx at a good price. He also will supply parts very easily. If you can catch up with him at a launch he tends to bring a huge selection of BT, couplers, NCs, CRs and can cut you fins if you go down the scratch build route.

I was going to mention Rebel Space (I think Rebel Rocketry is US) in Holland who I have bought a Little Dog as an option for FG kits but I see Ben (ArthurSull) has beaten me to it. The have a very good selection for the HPR end of things.

Hi Ben!
 
Last edited:
I think I'm going to go for Rebel, as they have a larger selection of kits, but I'll be sure to use R&T for any components, as I have had bad experiences with a certain other UK Rocket parts supplier, and R&T also have a much larger selection of parts than them.

Thanks all for your advice, I think I'm going to go for a Public Missiles Tethys
 
Looks good. I debated ordering parts straight from PML, as I had to wait for Rebel to get my Patriot in stock from PML themselves, but Rebel still turned out to be cheaper, got my Aeropack retainer from there too. Quick and fair postage I found.
 
I've heard of Rebel before, but didn't know that they shipped to the uk- I think I'll be ordering from there. As they don't stock Madcow kits, this is the one that I've been looking at for my cert 1. https://www.rebelrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?info=p1883_Intruder.html . I noticed it uses plastic 'quantum tubing' though- has anyone had any experience working with this, especially with painting it?

I built a PML Callisto in 2003 and have been flying it a lot since. It's easy to paint, no spirals to fill. Most of my rockets get repainted at some point, but not the Callisto, it's still in it's 10 year old paint. A solid workhorse rocket.

The only "gotch ya" with quantum tubing is the warning on the PML website, don't exceed 80% of Mach. The tubing won't hold up to Mach transitions with the fin flutter.
 
I am doing the Aerotech G-Force. It's looking pretty good and I only made a couple mods to it. Several members of my club also used the G-Force for their L1.
 
I am doing the Aerotech G-Force. It's looking pretty good and I only made a couple mods to it. Several members of my club also used the G-Force for their L1.

I did mine with a G-Force too and a H90 , I'm building my 4th one with DD , I will use a 6 grain Cesaroni
 
Thanks-I live in the UK though, so supplies are somewhat limited regarding HPR kits- that's why I've been looking into MPR conversions.

I rather like the Mirage, and would consider paying for shipping, but I'm not so sure if it would survive the shipping and our customs.

It would also be cool to be able to go supersonic later on using the same rocket, as I quite like high performance rockets.
I too think the mirage would do for L1. An H128/H97J/ Im using an AT H180W-10 to recert soon but doing a bit of beefing up. The fins cant handle much and for sure not SS speeds. Im concentrating on the middle airframe by adding couplers and CA also additional JB weld on lugs and fin attachments with a 29mm retainer ring. It should hit 2K and 700ft per sec. aprox. at burnout.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top