"E" motor in a nike estes nike smoke?

old timer just recently back in the model rocket game thanks to my nephews interest in rocketry. we have built several of my old favorites from my childhood like the der red max,bull pup, and phoenix bird, etc.last model we built was the estes stm-012 which is a "d" and "e" motor rocket that he loves. was looking at getting the new pro series nike smoke from estes as our next toy but i really don't want to spend the cash for the "f" and "g" motors to fly it. can i adapt an "e" motor to work in this rocket? does someone make an adapter? and is an "e" motor powerful enough to fly it? max altitude is not a priority, recovery is.any body know? thanks for any info.

p.s. sorry if this is a total newb question and there is no way that this can work.

Welcome to the forum! The Pro Series II Smoke is not rated for E motors. It's just too heavy. There are some smaller versions of the smoke out there. A few weeks ago, True Modeler's Rocket Kits had some in stock. They make some amazing kits, but note that the website has not been updated in a long time and the prices listed there may have changed. Their smoke is 1/10 scale (BT-60 or 1.637" dia) and you can order it with mounts for either a single 24 mm motor, or a cluster of 2 18 mm motors. I don't have this particular kit, but the 3 that I do have from them are among my favorites!

Cheers,
Michael

If you have a Hobby Lobby in your area, they have a weekly 40% off coupon that makes those Estes composite motors a little better deal. Estes also has some new 29mm black powder motors comming out. Should be fine for the Nike, but not sure of the price point.

The black powder E and F motors coming out might be ok. E9's surely will not work. Another option is the Aerotech 29mm 40-120 case. It's a metal casing that you reload propellant into. Many different motor options costing between $10-$20 dollars (most on the lower end of that.)
casing:
https://www.siriusrocketry.biz/ishop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=36_37&products_id=781

motor reloads:
https://www.siriusrocketry.biz/ishop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=36_45_48

It's really a ton of fun for the lowest cost, and most appropriate motors for the Pro Series kits currently available. Cesoroni also makes a good selection of small 29mm motors, but they all require Hazmat shipping and cost slightly more. Easier to use and slightly cheaper cases though. I couldn't decide....so I got both

The Estes E9 is iffy on a lighter model like the Quest Aerospace High-Q, but the Nike is WAY too heavy as iqsy59 said. IF you still like low and slow, the Aerotech F20-7W will get the Nike up to 900 feet and it would be easy to recover. Also the F20's come in a 2 pack, so they are a fairly economical way to get into higher Mid power engines.

+1 on DizWolf's suggestion. HobbyLinc has the 29/40-120 case for under $45, and the reloads are about $10 each. The only catch is that "F" motors for that case require hazmat shipping, while "G" motors don't. I don't want to complicate things to much, but to get around that I also have the RMS 24/40 case ($27 at HobbyLinc). The reloads for this case come in a 3 pack for about $20 and no hazmat, but you can't fly "G" with this case. You'll need an adapter from 29 mm to 24 mm for the Smoke, but you can use the 24/40 with your other 24 mm rockets as well and you can get composite reloads from "D" through "F" for it.

With all of that said, mid power is my sweet spot for rocketry. It balances size and performance with cost. At $8 to $10 per launch (after the initial investment in the hardware), it's really not that much more expensive than flying the larger black powder motors.

Cheers,
Michael

dillholes said:

.....can i adapt an "e" motor to work in this rocket? does someone make an adapter? and is an "e" motor powerful enough to fly it?....

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Yes you can adapt down. You can make you own, or buy one.
Yes. An 24 mm Aerotech E30T single use should lift this. Also the Aerotech E28T for the 24/40 case should work. The Aerotech E23T for the 29/40-120 is borderline.

Alan

thanks for all the responses, i was trying to stay with the premade motors just because of my nephews age and in the interest of the k.i.s.s. principle.i am a little leery of loading explosives into a metal case and igniting it within feet of a 6 yr old.(my nephew).maybe iqsy59 is right and i should look for a nike smoke kit that is a little bit smaller?any good kits that are maybe 30-36 inches tall that use a "d" or "e" motor?thanks for all the help!

Cosmodrome Rocketry makes an excellent 2.6" diameter by 36.5" long kit, but it is also mid power and quite a bit more challenging to build than the PS II. The TMRK kit would fly perfectly on D12's, I suspect. I don't know of a 2" diameter version, but someone else out there may be able to chime in on that. Reloads are EASY, by the way...

If you like other sounding rockets beyond the Nike Smoke, check out Rocketarium. They have some really nice sounding rockets that fly on D's and E's...and some that fly on 2 or 3 cluster A, B, or C engines.

Good luck in your search!

Cheers,
Michael

Propellant is not "explosive", it is a "flammable solid".

Always look at the motor choices to see the motor's Manufacturer's Recommended Maximum Liftoff Weight. If the full loaded rocket with motor weighs more, then the motor is unsafe for that model.

dillholes said:

thanks for all the responses, i was trying to stay with the premade motors just because of my nephews age and in the interest of the k.i.s.s. principle.i am a little leery of loading explosives into a metal case and igniting it within feet of a 6 yr old.(my nephew).maybe iqsy59 is right and i should look for a nike smoke kit that is a little bit smaller?any good kits that are maybe 30-36 inches tall that use a "d" or "e" motor?thanks for all the help!

Click to expand...

Check Quest (www.questaerospace.com) to see if their Nike Smoke is still available. It uses the regular 18mm black powder motors you're familiar with. As far as the Estes Pro Series goes, it's a great mid-power kit that can be used with variety of 29mm single use AP composite motors from Estes or Aerotech. Definitely follow Txnrcr's advice if you have a Hobby Lobby nearby. And if I may make a suggestion: think "flammable" rather than "explosive"... and ignore all those cato videos on Youtube.

Oh, Shread beat me to it again !

ahh, sorry about the lingo. again i am familiar with the sub "f" size motors that use black powder as a propellant which i consider an explosive. i have no experience and have never even seen a composite or re loadable motor up close, i assume they use a propellant similar to what the space shuttle solid boosters have? i just don't have luck with things that require a very precise set of directions be followed or else...hence the reason to try and stay with the pre made motors. nephew just likes the look of the nike smoke so maybe i can find a little smaller one. thanks!

samb said:

Check Quest (www.questaerospace.com) to see if their Nike Smoke is still available. It uses the regular 18mm black powder motors you're familiar with . . .

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The Quest Nike Smoke kit isn't available now, but the parts are:

https://www.questaerospace.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?search=action&searchstart=54&category=Z0

Add 8 5/8" of 35mm body tube and a homemade decal -



Be ready, the two-piece nose cone can be a bear to glue together and fill the seam.
The nose cone tip is broken off in the picture.
The fin can is nearly indestructible.

I did a build on this on at my blog:
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/search/label/Nike Smoke

Scroll down past the first post and you'll find the Nike Smoke build.

dillholes said:

ahh, sorry about the lingo. again i am familiar with the sub "f" size motors that use black powder as a propellant which i consider an explosive. i have no experience and have never even seen a composite or re loadable motor up close, i assume they use a propellant similar to what the space shuttle solid boosters have? i just don't have luck with things that require a very precise set of directions be followed or else...hence the reason to try and stay with the pre made motors. nephew just likes the look of the nike smoke so maybe i can find a little smaller one. thanks!

Click to expand...

No worries, you're among rocket friends here. And Mr. Michielssen's web site is well worth your time. Yes, composite propellant is similar to the space shuttle boosters, just a little less impulse. BTW your nephew has great taste.

DizWolf said:

The black powder E and F motors coming out might be ok. E9's surely will not work. Another option is the Aerotech 29mm 40-120 case. It's a metal casing that you reload propellant into. Many different motor options costing between $10-$20 dollars (most on the lower end of that.)
casing:
https://www.siriusrocketry.biz/ishop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=36_37&products_id=781

motor reloads:
https://www.siriusrocketry.biz/ishop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=36_45_48

It's really a ton of fun for the lowest cost, and most appropriate motors for the Pro Series kits currently available. Cesoroni also makes a good selection of small 29mm motors, but they all require Hazmat shipping and cost slightly more. Easier to use and slightly cheaper cases though. I couldn't decide....so I got both

Click to expand...

Any Black Powder E or F motor requires a hazmat fee as it will have more than 30 grams of propellant and can not be delivered by the USPS. There are no BP motors recommended for this rocket. The recommended AT/Estes motors for this rocket are: F26-6FJ; F50-6T; G40-7W; G80-7T. If you want to use CTI you will need either an F or G motor with at least 26 N average thrust. Launching this rocket on an E motor, or a motor with less than ~25 N of thrust is most likely going to end badly.

o.k. you guys have convinced me to look into the reloadable motor cases. am i correct in assuming the aerotech 24-40 case is sized like a estes "d' motor, and the 29-40/120 is comparable to a "f" motor, size wise? iqsy59's suggestion of a cost savings motivated me to take a look at hobbylinc. let's just say my local hobby shops prices are no where near those.we are talking almost $50 for 1 estes composite motor! i may attempt the smaller motor case to see if my skills (or lack thereof) are up to the challenge of reloading a rocket motor. many thanks to everyone for helping out an new/old newbie!

the 29-40/120 fit perfectly in the Nike

dillholes said:

o.k. you guys have convinced me to look into the reloadable motor cases. am i correct in assuming the aerotech 24-40 case is sized like a estes "d' motor, and the 29-40/120 is comparable to a "f" motor, size wise? iqsy59's suggestion of a cost savings motivated me to take a look at hobbylinc. let's just say my local hobby shops prices are no where near those.we are talking almost $50 for 1 estes composite motor! i may attempt the smaller motor case to see if my skills (or lack thereof) are up to the challenge of reloading a rocket motor. many thanks to everyone for helping out an new/old newbie!

Click to expand...

Your assumption is essentially correct. The 24 in 24-40 is the diameter in millimeters (same as the mighty Estes D) and the 29 in 29-40/120 means that guy is 29mm in diameter. The 24-40 accepts a variety of E and F impulse loads. The 29 has E, F, and G. All those choices will be a little confusing at first, but you want to follow shreadvectors advice about matching what a given motor can safely lift with the weight of your particular rocket. I think the assembly of both cases is similar and you should be able to find videos on the Aerotech site or Apogee or youtube. Better yet, do you have a club near by ? 5 minutes hands on demonstation will make you an expert.

I would still consider a single use from the motors listed on whatever kit you end up getting for your first go with composite motors. Less moving parts. At least, that's how I approached it.

24-60 is a great case and has better thread than the 24-40. of course it only has an F load for it, but it is one HECk of an F load and very economical and can lift some big rockets.

29mm casing will be simpler for this rocket.

Even simpler would be any 29mm Econojet motor that has enough thrust (initial and average) to lift this model safely. most likely a Blue Thunder motor.

https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Aerotech/F42.pdf

https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/c...Instructions/MR-SU_Instructions/ej_f42-4t.pdf

And, with less than 30 grams of propellant, it can be mailed by authorized retailers via USPS ground parcel post with no crazy extra fees.

One thing about cases, the 29/40-120 is a better deal than the 24 mm ones, because the 24 mm range is covered by single use motors without hazmat, but at least the G reloads aren't hazmat while all single use Gs are, except the "LMS" loadable motors which are about the same work to put together as reloads (or worse, needing epoxy and CA), although skip the clean-up.

Ya I wouldn't try it on a Estes BP E, mine weighs in at a whopping 18oz not to bad really. A composite E should work just might not be recommended, most rockets that size I like to have a margin of error to at least 500 feet.

Looks like a 24mm AT E11-6J can get 300 feet, and a AT F39-6 can get it to 600+ feet. The AT 24mm F's 3 packs are 19.29 @ Hobylink thats $9.11 (including the shipping) a shot you cant beat that with a stick.



TA