Wayco's 3" BlackStar

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Wayco

Desert Rat Rocketeer
TRF Supporter
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Messages
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Location
Goodyear, AZ
Started building a Wildman's 3" Darkstar this week. Since it has been well documented in CJ's thread, I won't be going into great detail with this thread. I'm using his thread starting at post # 95 where he finally decides to do a "mostly" stock build, with some trimming of the components to improve performance. The main reason for this thread is to show others how a relatively inexperienced fiberglass builder interprets CJ's massive thread and uses it for my third fiberglass build. My first Wildman rocket was the DS Jr. which I built last year. I documented my second build "Energizer Bunny" here:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?48279-The-Energizer-Bunny

I started this build with lots of sanding. Using 60, 80 and 120 grit sandpaper I sanded body tubes to match up with the N/C and switch band. Sanded centering rings to fit on the MMT, they were already small enough to fit inside the fincan, so that saved me some work. Sanded bulkheads on one side so the epoxy would bond well for my avbay ends. Forgot to sand the smaller BH's to fit inside the avbay coupler, so I had to go back and file them down after I had glued them together.
I built the N/C just like CJ describes in his post # 100 and continues for about 20 posts..... I used one of the smaller black bulkheads because it was big enough to fit over the end of the short coupler for the N/C. Then I cut out a smaller BH from 1/8" plywood that fit inside the coupler and drilled a 1/4" hole to match. I got my eyenut from Fastenal, couldn't find it anywhere else. Bought some extras for future builds. I also used them in my bunny and DS Jr.
When I set up the epoxy station in the laundry room, I actually started taking pictures:
002.jpg


By that time I had matched up my joints pretty well and marked them with a silver sharpie:
005.jpg


I skipped over a bunch of posts about adapters and jumped back in at post #134 to start fitting the MMT together. Here is my MMT with the 3/8" kevlar routed through the slots in the top CR and all the other CR's fit according to CJ's suggestions starting at post #145:
004.jpg


To get here, I had fitted the fins and Ca'ed the CR's in place after sanding the MMT with 60 grit, and attached the Aeropac adapter with JB weld. After starting a thread about snap ring motors, I decided not to adjust my MMT to accommodate the larger thrust ring on LOKI motor tubes. This was addressed in CJ's post # 165. If I ever do fly a LOKI motor, I will get the 54mm cases that are made with thinner thrust rings. I also taped off the BT and fins for the external fillets.
Next, I mixed up some Proline 4500 hi-temp. epoxy to fillet the CR's in place and sandwich the Kevlar to the MMT. First batch was 5x the 5.5 to 1 ratio for 32.5 grams of epoxy. Finally got to use my little scale for mixing up small batches of epoxy by weight, not like I did on the DS Jr. I used plastic spoons to move the resin from the can, and a syringe to add the hardener to separate little plastic cups that you get applesauce in:
014.jpg


When I added the resin to the hardener, there was still a little resin left in the first cup, so I added a little extra before mixing it up for a while. Then I spread it onto the MMT:
016.jpg


I had enough to glue the avbay lids together too, and was surprised how little mess I had made when done:
019.jpg


When I fitted the MMT in with all the CR's in place, I noticed that it was loose enough to wobble around at the aft end, so when I started gluing all the fins in place I screwed on the tailcone, which has a notch at it's leading edge that matches up with the BT:
007.jpg


This kept the MMT perfectly centered while I stuck all the fins in place. The next step was installing the fins, so I measured out a smaller batch of Proline to butter the fin roots, and started at the back with the aft fins. Using a cardboard fin guide, I slid the aft fins in place and fit the fin guide in place to hold them straight. Got a little ahead of myself and didn't check CJ's thread before I did this, or I would have used a little CA glue to hold them while they dried. No, I had more epoxy, so I went ahead and stuck the forward fins in too, and clamped it all down. Fortunately, the fin guide held everything tight and when I checked the lines I had drawn while fitting the fins, everything stayed in place.
021.jpg


Today I'm injecting internal fillets using West Systems 105/205 epoxy with chopped carbon fiber added. This weekend I will probably be doing the external fillets with Proline, and I will post up my progress then.

 
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WHY ARE YOU STARTING TO BUILD YOUR BEFORE I GET BACK TO YOUR PLACE TO BUILD MINE? heheheeh. No seriously... We gotta do a build session soon. TTYL, Text/call me. Mark
 
WHY ARE YOU STARTING TO BUILD YOUR BEFORE I GET BACK TO YOUR PLACE TO BUILD MINE? heheheeh. No seriously... We gotta do a build session soon. TTYL, Text/call me. Mark

Mark, you and I will do ours together once Wayne has gotten all the "build bugs" out of the way. I'll text you.
 
Looking good there Waco. What ya think so far? Looks like it's going pretty smooth.

I think bigger rockets are actually easier to build, and with your guidance, I'm confident that I can do it right. The hard part is keeping track of where I am in relation to your thread. I keep getting sidetracked by off topic comments. Then there's the "JUST DO IT" fever that strikes occasionally. That hit when I was sticking fins in and had epoxy left over. Reminds me of a comment you once posted "Rocketry is an exact science, but not exactly".

WHY ARE YOU STARTING TO BUILD YOUR BEFORE I GET BACK TO YOUR PLACE TO BUILD MINE? heheheeh. No seriously... We gotta do a build session soon. TTYL, Text/call me. Mark

I can help you and Sharon better if I have the experience of building mine first. A lot of the build is sanding all the parts to fit properly, and you can come out any time to get started on that. We plan to be here all summer, Sharon got a big job in and we need to be here to get it out. I will give you a call later today, you could get started now if you want.
 
Last weekend I continued working on the fincan. First I injected the internal fillets using West systems 105/205 epoxy with a little chopped carbon fiber. This is where I differ from CJ's thread just a little. I mix mine up in a 20 ml. syringe, pumping it straight in:
0042.jpg


I use a coffee cup stir stick to mix it up, taking my time and scraping the edges, mixing vertically and swirling it for at least two minutes. Then adding a pinch of carbon fiber:
0052.jpg


Take your time doing this, the WS epoxy takes a while to set up, so no hurry. When it's mixed, it should look like this:
0062.jpg


CJ covers this process starting at post #192, and I followed his directions regarding taping up the area for the external fillets and sealing the bottom fin gaps while injecting. When I stuck the plunger into the syringe, I turned it over and removed the little piece of tape, CAREFULLY pushed up on it to take out the air out and checked where it was on the graduated scale:
0082.jpg


Now I'm ready to inject, so I insert the syringe into the first hole at the back fin and add 4 ml. (it's smaller) and add 6 ml. to the front:
0092.jpg


When it's full you should have a small puddle of epoxy a the hole:
0102.jpg


This is where i verified that my fin roots were well attached to the MMT, I got no leakage through there at all. The only leak I found was at the rear CR, it seeped a little and sealed up when it set.
I used this method after I tried to suck up the epoxy/chopped fiber for my DS Jr. build and found that the fibers didn't want to go through the tip. So I just mixed it all together in the syringe. Just like CJ, I add this disclaimer, this is just how I do it, guys with much more experience will have their own proven methods. Tim mentions that he doesn't think injecting when you use Proline for the fin roots and external fillets is necessary. I found that Proline 4500 is very brittle when removing it from my cups, and since I always have some left over, I compared a 1/8" disk of Proline to a 1/8" disk of West systems. The Proline cracked right in half, but the West Systems is still intact, couldn't break it. I might just take it with me next time I go out shooting and see how it deals with my .357 magnum.... Be interesting to see if it shatters or holes out.
Next, I did the externals, following CJ's thread back at post # 204. I mixed up a 19.5 gram batch and couldn't finish both sides on mine, but this is just my second attempt at this process, so I'm not nearly as neat as CJ. Since I bought two cans of this stuff, I'm not worried about a little waste, so I made a larger batch for the next set. The extra was used for the vent band on the avbay and a few other odds and ends I had laying around. One note I would add is that while wiping up the little drip that forms a the end of the fins, I stuck my finger into a finished fillet. It was already at least a half hour into the cure, but it still flowed back out where you could hardly tell where my mistake was.
Next post will cover the basic avbay setup without the sled layout. I'm waiting for that new RRC-3 altimeter so I can match my layout with CJ's.

:grin:



 
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CJ starts his avbay on post # 216. Mine mirrors his build until he attaches his #10 allthread to the aft BH. He uses nuts, washers and lock washers. I use T-nuts and red loctite, with a nut on the inside. I use locknuts on my forged eyebolts:
0202.jpg


The T-nuts are epoxied in to hold them in place and seals the holes I drilled in the bulkhead to fit the nuts:
0192.jpg


I tape the eyenut from the outside and inject epoxy into the holes drilled to hold the prongs on the t-nut. T-nuts are almost flush on the BH, which allows me to add an external beeper for my Stratologger. There is probably room for it regardless, this is just how I did it with my 54mm builds previously, where there wasn't room for everything on the smaller BH. Now I will have two terminal blocks and the external beeper on the aft bulkhead. I'm waiting to lay it all out when I can match it up to the sled, which is waiting for the RRC-3 to arrive so I can start on it.


Skipping the avbay sled, I started drilling holes, which is one of the most nerve wracking parts to the build. Holes in the vent band, per CJ's post # 220. Holes for rivets in the payload tube, another place where I changed the plan with pem nuts. I used 6-32 pem nuts I got from Missleworks:

https://www.missileworks.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3
The hole size for these is in between my drill sizes, so to get the .213 size hole, I use a 13/64" drill (.203) and ream it just a bit. When you draw the nut into the hole, you can feel if it's big enough, if it doesn't go in straight, back the screw out and ream it some more. Here is what it looks like when done:
022.jpg


Inside it sticks out a bit:

025.jpg


Sorry about the pic's, but if you can handle CJ's photography, this should be easy.
On the outside I countersink the hole in the payload tube, and it comes out flush with the screw:
026.jpg


Drilled two more 1/8" holes to vent the fincan and payload, as per CJ's post # 237. Skipped over most of page 9 where is works on his sled, then jumped back in at post #262 to drill 1/8" holes for the #8 railbutton screws. I'm a little skeptical on this step, but if a button comes off, I can always rebuild....
0212.jpg


You can also see the second set of fillets I have done with Proline 4500 here. The aft fin on the left is the one I stuck my finger in.
:facepalm:
 
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Wow! Getting vertigo from the close ups!! :)

Then you're gonna love this shot:
magswitch001.jpg


After waiting another month for the release of the much hyped RRC-3, I finally gave up and started mounting components on my sled:
002-1.jpg


My much used and abused Stratologger is now mounted with the Featherweight magnetic switch. On the other side I mounted the battery boxes I got from......
Wait for it.....


Some of you may know this already......



Missleworks!
Yeah, I'm a regular customer there, when they have what I need and are ready to sell it.

Here is the detail shot of how I mounted the mag switch from the battery side of the sled:
001-1.jpg


After extensive testing ( it only took me a day to find the magnets magically attached to my hardware box) I found that little switch works perfectly.
Now it's back to the waiting game, hopefully there will be a new altimeter available before we start back launching in September.
 
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WHY ARE YOU STARTING TO BUILD YOUR BEFORE I GET BACK TO YOUR PLACE TO BUILD MINE? heheheeh. No seriously... We gotta do a build session soon. TTYL, Text/call me. Mark

Can we fire up Skype or hangouts for a build session also ? Have one to start on also .

You make it look easy Wayco!

Kenny
 
Can we fire up Skype or hangouts for a build session also ? Have one to start on also .

You make it look easy Wayco!

Kenny

I doubt it would look easy if you followed us on Skype. You would be much better off using Green Jello's sticky of CJ's build thread at the top of the HPR section. Now that would make it easy!
Anyway, I'm stuck in wait mode on both of my builds waiting for parts. If you start your DS now, you could be caught up by the time I get the new altimeter.....
 
Nice looking sled, but I would solder those crimp on connectors and add some heat shrink.
 
Nice looking sled, but I would solder those crimp on connectors and add some heat shrink.


Thanks for the tip Juan, done and done. I also added some hot glue to the wires and connectors to keep them from moving around. Took out the nylon screw too, it was messing with the reliability of the switch. It would work sometimes and not work others, so it's been replaced by a stainless flat head at the output to the altimeter.
Here is the new setup:

0022-1.jpg

0012-1.jpg


You might also notice that I dremeled out some slots at the end of the battery boxes so I could run zip-ties around them.
 
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Why is that terminal block so crooked? I'd look into it.

It might have been something to do with this less than optimal flight:
089.jpg


The avbay wasn't up to the landing:
126.jpg
I have done continuity tests from the terminal block to the circuit board, wiggled it around a bit, but no problem that I could find. No cracks on the board, even under my big magnifying glass, so I think it's good. Subsequent flights all went good, but it was a steep learning curve when I started doing dual deploy. That failure was due to a CTI I150 that breached the rear closure and never reached the 300 ft. activation altitude for my SL100. Like I said earlier, "my much used and abused altimeter". I have tweaked it a bit and it will look a bit more squared away in future pictures. Or you could do what Adrian suggested.....

:lol:
 
Thanks for the tip Juan, done and done. I also added some hot glue to the wires and connectors to keep them from moving around. Took out the nylon screw too, it was messing with the reliability of the switch. It would work sometimes and not work others, so it's been replaced by a stainless flat head at the output to the altimeter.

You might also notice that I dremeled out some slots at the end of the battery boxes so I could run zip-ties around them.

Awesome job! Let me know how that switch works out, I might need to get one for myself too.
 
Finally got my RRC3 in and mounted on the sled. I also used a featherweight magnetic switch for power until I read the users manual and found this statement at the bottom of page: "Never cycle the RRC3 power switch off, then immediately back on (allow at least 10 seconds). Since the switch is new to me, I have been working on using the magnet correctly to avoid this. Initially, I decided to remove the switch and use a rotary switch to avoid this problem, but the position of the vent holes relative to the sled makes that impossible unless I drill more holes in the switch band. I wired the RRC3 up directly to the battery and added a "twist & tuck" wire for the ejection tests today, but still had a blip on the power while twisting them. The RRC3 doesn't seem to mind though, it's still performing perfectly and passes all it's tests on power up and through the dongle attached to the laptop. I'm rethinking the magnetic switch. Now that I have a little practice with it and have the magnet marked for correct orientation, I can turn it on and off with no blips in the power. Here is a shot of the current configuration on my sled:
0093.jpg


I'm probably gonna put the magnetic switch back in and try not to worry about it. The batteries are mounted on the other side like this:
0133.jpg


I will replace the test batteries and zip-tie them in before it's first flight in September.

Yesterday I ran wires from my terminal blocks out through vent holes so I could hook up the altimeters externally:
0153.jpg

Then I connected four ejection charges to the terminal blocks at each end.


Today I spent the morning blowing things up, specifically ejection charges. I took everything outside to my carpeted Jeep parking area and set the Blackstar up for testing.
An 8 ft. length of 4 conductor wire with alligator clips attached to one end runs from the avbay to my sled. Then I used separate dongles to control the two altimeters. The Stratologger connection always comes right up, but I'm still working on the correct sequence to get the RRC3 connected to the laptop. Sharon had to come down from the office again to help me get it working.
:sad:
025-1.jpg


Video clip of the primary Stratologger firing a 1.7 gram charge for main deploy:


Drogue deploy using 1.5 grams and the MMT has a small casing plugging it:


Main deploy using the RRC3 and another 1.7 gram charge:


Finally the drogue deploy without a towel over the fincan:


All of my amounts of 4f black powder are taken directly from CJ's Darkstar build thread. Most of my build was directly influenced by his thread. I only regret that Dave (Green Jello) didn't get around to indexing it until I was almost done with my build.
I'm just about done here, a little cleanup and I will be putting on the awesome "Stickershock" decals and coating the entire rocket with Future.
My main reason for documenting my builds is so I can remember what I did, getting old is really taking it's toll on my hard drive. I need a good defrag. program, and since I haven't found that yet, I use the forum to keep track of my builds.
I also like to get feedback from those of you that stop in to check things out, so please feel free to make any comments, regardless if they are positive or negative. It's all good to me.
Here is one last video after the first main ejection charge went off:


Thanks for watching.

:smile:
 
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Thanks for posting !

Hey some dog barfed in yer testing area ...

Kenny
 
Looking good, just wish ya would fly the darn thing! LOL

Don't feel bad, it took me 2 weeks to get the hook up cycle right with my RRC..... I'm just an idiot when it comes to confusers. I had to call Jim or Don to help me every time.
What finally got me over the hump:

I sat down and spent an hour doing this. Turn on computer. Go through the entire hook up and connect to altimeter, go to preference page and check comm port. Make sure the green check was at bottom of page. [oh yeah first thing is to enlarge graph full size as soon as ya boo it up, other wise ya can't see the stuff at the bottom] Click the connect button, then turn switch on dongle to on, watch for the blinky lights on altimeter & dongle going nuts, then download my data.............

Then click the disconnect button. Turn off my program & computer. [May have forgot something or be out of sequence] anyhow i did this 15 or twenty times in a row & finally my thick skull began to work on "muscle" memory. Unfortunately I only have a couple of brain cells left, so should one fall asleep, I get in trouble pretty fast. I kept doing this till those tired lonely cells finally gave up & accepted defeat. They agreed to help my do this with out fighting anymore.
Upside is I can now hook up my altimeter pretty darn fast without any hassles, just had to beat it home! LOL

Good luck, you'll be fine. Did ya get the LCD? ya know you can do all this stuff a whole lot easier with that. Of course to do the graphing, ya gatta deal with the damn confuser!

Cj
 
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Looking good, just wish ya would fly the darn thing! LOL

Wish I could too. We do have an August launch, but I have a rule that it must get BELOW 100* overnight or I won't attend a launch. Doesn't happen here in August.

Don't feel bad, it took me 2 weeks to get the hook up cycle right with my RRC..... I'm just an idiot when it comes to confusers. I had to call Jim or Don to help me every time.
What finally got me over the hump:

I sat down and spent an hour doing this. Turn on computer. Go through the entire hook up and connect to altimeter, go to preference page and check comm port. Make sure the green check was at bottom of page. [oh yeah first thing is to enlarge graph full size as soon as ya boo it up, other wise ya can't see the stuff at the bottom] Click the connect button, then turn switch on dongle to on, watch for the blinky lights on altimeter & dongle going nuts, then download my data.............

Then click the disconnect button. Turn off my program & computer. [May have forgot something or be out of sequence] anyhow i did this 15 or twenty times in a row & finally my thick skull began to work on "muscle" memory. Unfortunately I only have a couple of brain cells left, so should one fall asleep, I get in trouble pretty fast. I kept doing this till those tired lonely cells finally gave up & accepted defeat. They agreed to help my do this with out fighting anymore.
Upside is I can now hook up my altimeter pretty darn fast without any hassles, just had to beat it home! LOL

We must be related, that's exactly how I have been working on this! I'm getting a better than 50% success rate hooking it up now. Thanks for the tips though. I also noted that clicking on "Host connect" during the first five seconds of power-up improves the success rate, but you have to be quick.

Good luck, you'll be fine. Did ya get the LCD? ya know you can do all this stuff a whole lot easier with that. Of course to do the graphing, ya gatta deal with the damn confuser!

Cj

Yes, I did get the LCD, but never thought about using it to conduct ejection tests! DUH.... I'm like the rat in the maze, learn one way of doing it and you do it that way forever. The Stratologger has me conditioned.
Anyway, thanks for following my threads, it means a lot to me, and I value your comments.
 
This rocket is done. All I have left to do is take it out on a full moon night and repeat the oath. I will have to wait to "Stuff the biggest motor in it" because the L935 would bust our waiver here. Maybe the K300 to 10,033ft., but that would be pretty close too.
Today I put the "Stickershock" holographic decals on Blackstar:
0013.jpg


Tried to get the lighting right for the effect:
0023.jpg


Added a coat of future but not sure I like it, might clean it off and spray clear.
This has been one of my longest builds, taking two months to finish. Just checked and there have been over 900 views, hope you found something here to help with your next project!
 
Absolutely have found plenty to help with my next build.... which just happens to be a 3" Darkstar :)

I've been trying to decide how to finish it... was thinking future or some random wax... not sure.
 
Decal looks great! Is that from the Hardline collection?

Be proud, cant wait to see it fly!

"BlackStar launching in the dead of night , take these split fins and learn to fly . . .."

Kenny
 
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